hahaha anything you can do to try to come out on top huh. Even my customer that you were trying to use dissed you. Funny how that works. And you still don't come out and admit you are wrong. It’s ok. My rep speaks for itself and fact of that matter is YOU AND I got banned from DSMtalk because going back and forth got out of hand that is why. Don't try to make it seem like I was banned for "lying" or "misinforming" fact of the matter is you got suspended just like I did.

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No, I didn't get banned because of that thread. I got banned because of a different thread after that. Just trying to keep the facts straight. I was only using that thread as an example of why i thought you could be mistaken about this turbo, not to attack or insult you. You have a responsibility as a vendor to represent your products accurately. If you don't know something, you should just say so, instead of giving information that might be misleading or not true. I can understand if you get upset with me about it, but the fact is it's really only your own fault. If it would have never happened i wouldn't have had any reason to doubt you. It looks like i am wrong about the B-52, and you were right. The measurements were just a big coincidence i guess. I'm no e-soldier, and thanks for the invitation but i have no interest in coming to visit you at your house.

I'm still curious about the B-52 though. I don't understand why it seems like you don't want to give out much information about it. If it's not a Garrett compressor wheel, is the rest of the turbo still all Garrett that is custom built with the mystery wheel? If so who are these turbo's built by? Or is the whole CHRA non-Garrett. Perhaps it's Turbonetics?
Has any testing been done with the turbo yet, like intake to exhaust manifold pressures, dyno or track testing?

I only posted the measurements to find out if anyone knew what it was... not because it really mattered to me but because when someone asks me what I am running when I am at the track I wanted to be able to tell them. If I just told them a T04B "B-52" most people would have no idea what I am talking about. If I were able to tell them it was an "[insert trim here]"-trim Garrett T04B it would make sense to a lot more people.

Click to expand...

Well, now you don't even know the manufacturer of the compressor wheel. Are you comfortable with that?

Well, now you don't even know the manufacturer of the compressor wheel. Are you comfortable with that?

Click to expand...

Yup, totally comfortable until I have reason to think otherwise.

khendriksma1 said:

Yup, totally comfortable until I have reason to think otherwise.

Click to expand...

That's good then. Are you going to run the B52 at Martin Dragway this year? Did you run up there much last year?

redrkt said:

That's good then. Are you going to run the B52 at Martin Dragway this year? Did you run up there much last year?

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Yes, I am going to run it at Martin this year. I ran my T-28 there last year but I never went to the track for the first time ever until Labor Day weekend and made about 20 passes by the end of the season so I am somewhat new at it yet.

redrkt said:

I'm still curious about the B-52 though. I don't understand why it seems like you don't want to give out much information about it. If it's not a Garrett compressor wheel, is the rest of the turbo still all Garrett that is custom built with the mystery wheel? If so who are these turbo's built by? Or is the whole CHRA non-Garrett. Perhaps it's Turbonetics?

Click to expand...

The turbo uses the Garrett CHRA that is used in the rest of the t04b line up but we mated this compressor wheel to it because we saw it work quite well in other markets we tried it with. It is not a turbonetics turbo and our B-52 is built by Bullseye Power to our Specs.

We do not disclose the compressor wheel because it is something that we are looking into using in a couple of other applications and we would like as few people as possible to know what it is.

It's been made pretty clear by the over 20 people who have purchased it that my word was enough for them and until a customer comes to me with complaints i don't see a reason to go any other route.

Oh and to my customers backing me up, thank you. Your trust means a lot to us.

I just stumbled across this thread. I heard about this turbo a while ago. Of course when a vendor comes out with a new turbo, they like to keep the specs under wraps for a little bit anyway. However, how come none of the vendors that carry these turbos, along with the V-trim and H-3, ever do any actual testing before they release these things? A reputable turbo vendor should do this. List the mods, list the turbo, and post dyno charts. We haven't seen any actual #'s with this turbo, and the only 2 reported #'s from the v-trim/H-3 camp were pretty pathetic.

Of course the vendors aren't going to get many complaints. The people buying them are pretty clueless and don't do any actual real world testing. Just because a turbo works when you bolt it up, doesn't mean it works well. We, meaning the DSM consumer community, need to see more testing done with the turbos before release. Everyone wants facts, data, #'s. Not just "it flows more than 53 lbs/mn. That means SHIT.

So, everyone just keep waiting on those magical dyno #'s to appear. Hopefully they will one day

Yes, I am going to run it at Martin this year. I ran my T-28 there last year but I never went to the track for the first time ever until Labor Day weekend and made about 20 passes by the end of the season so I am somewhat new at it yet.

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I'm sure i'll see you up there if you go. I'd like to see how well this turbo performs. I'm also curious, what are your performance expectations for this turbo?

D_Eclipse9916 said:

Redrckt, wow, im surprised you would attack martin. It is easy for you to jump out and attack him for not releasing specs on their new turbo, but as vendors it is in their interest to keep specs in secret so that other vendors cannot copy off their product.

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I've already explained i'm not attacking Martin. Actually it feels like he's been getting overzealous towards me. It's understandable why some people who build turbo's don't want to reveal the specs on their turbo. They go through alot of work testing them to find out what works best, so they feel robbed of it when someone just comes along and copies it. Tests like exhaust to intake pressure, turbo shaft rpm, turbo inlet/outlet temperatures, along with real world dyno and track testing. They won't tell you what it is, but they will at least tell you what it flows and how much HP it will support. They will also give you dyno graphs and track times ran with the turbo, spool times, along with information from other testing.

This turbo Martin is selling is a different situation. Martin doesn't build it, he just sells it. So far all we know in this thread is that it flows over 53lbs/min and uses a crappy 270* thrust bearing. Apparently, Bullseye performance hasn't done any testing at all to get information for Martin to share with us. I guess they expect the consumer pay for a turbo they know virtually nothing about, so the customer can also pay for the R&D by doing it for them? That doesn't sound like a very good sales tactic to me.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

The turbo uses the Garrett CHRA that is used in the rest of the t04b line up but we mated this compressor wheel to it because we saw it work quite well in other markets we tried it with. It is not a turbonetics turbo and our B-52 is built by Bullseye Power to our Specs.

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That's seems kind of strange. Bullseye builds turbo's now? I had read before that Bullseye Performance doesn't build turbo's, they just order them directly from Garrett and bolt them to the turbine housing. This way you get a factory new turbo from Garrett, so there is nothing to be worried about like screw ups with them being hand built. Who at Bullseye is qualified to build turbo's, and with what equipment to do it properly? I thought that place was just a forging company here in Michigan setup for casting the turbine housing.

What are the benifits of using the TO4B compressor housing over the TO4E? I thought they both cleared the water pipe fine with the Bullseye turbine housing?

ITSME4G63 said:

Considering the price of the turbo compared to whatever you want to compare it to, there just isnt anythign better out there for the price. Plus a 2 year warrantee which is hassle free for 70$ is just nuts, you dhave to be stupid not to get it.

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I really don't see what is so good about the price of the B52, or what makes it such a good deal. You don't even know what the B52 is, what it is capable of, or how it performs, how can you say there isn't anything out there better than it at all? You don't have any information about it to use for a comparison.

For the same $800 dollars you can get an AGP RS49(that 1029TSG was talking about earlier) and get the flow of a real 50 trim. Not to mention a T04E housing and heavy duty screw down 360 thrust bearing that is designed for what we do, racing! Not only that, you know you are getting a turbo that has already been proven to work well without any mysteries. It also is a bolt on affair just like the B-52, and it comes with a no questions asked 1 year warranty for free! On top of that, the compressor housing comes polished to a mirror finish! Of course, it also comes with AGP's nearly unmatched level of customer service and support. If you're really looking for alot of flow, you can get the RS60(60-1, 60lbs/min), which is also a very proven turbo for the same price! I sure don't see why anyone would be stupid for choosing AGP instead of getting the B52.

I'm sure i'll see you up there if you go. I'd like to see how well this turbo performs. I'm also curious, what are your performance expectations for this turbo?

Click to expand...

Well, I am hoping for 350-375whp but I don't know if I have any "limiting" factors as far as my setup. At 24lbs of boost, my T-28 was pushing 31.5 lb/min (according to my DSMLink). Plus I don't have an FMIC... just the HRC larger sidemount so I am hoping that I can achieve acceptable power with this one at a much lower boost pressure, therefore lowering my intake temp. I never had a problem with an overly-high intake temp or knock with the T-28 but there is the possibility that I might with this one.

As far as a 1/4-mile time, I would really like to get into the low 12's but I know that I have a LONG way to go and I have a lot to learn yet about launching my FWD before I will achieve that.

Bullseye does provide us with the turbo. I've stated that before. They take the Garrett CHRA and mate it to their housing for us.

We did indeed test the turbo on a couple applications and we were quite happy with it and the folks that have called for it have gotten all the info. The only thing we have not done is Dyno it which is just due to us being tied up with the move to the new shop.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

Bullseye does provide us with the turbo. I've stated that before. They take the Garrett CHRA and mate it to their housing for us.

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Yes, i know that.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

The turbo uses the Garrett CHRA that is used in the rest of the t04b line up but we mated this compressor wheel to it because we saw it work quite well in other markets we tried it with. It is not a turbonetics turbo and our B-52 is built by Bullseye Power to our Specs.

Click to expand...

My question was:

redrkt said:

Bullseye builds turbo's now? I had read before that Bullseye Performance doesn't build turbo's, they just order them directly from Garrett and bolt them to the turbine housing. This way you get a factory new turbo from Garrett, so there is nothing to be worried about like screw ups with them being hand built. Who at Bullseye is qualified to build turbo's, and with what equipment to do it properly? I thought that place was just a forging company here in Michigan setup for casting the turbine housing.

Click to expand...

Based on this information on the Bullseye Power website.

Bullseye power said:

All of our turbochargers are factory built and brand new out of the box using only our custom cast turbine housing. This allows us to offer an available 12 month/unlimited mileage "No Hassle" warranty on all of our complete turbos.

Click to expand...

So how are they building hybrid Garrett/ non-Garrett compressor wheel turbo's if they're supposed to come factory built new in the box from Garrett?

prostreetdsmx1 said:

We did indeed test the turbo on a couple applications and we were quite happy with it and the folks that have called for it have gotten all the info. The only thing we have not done is Dyno it which is just due to us being tied up with the move to the new shop.

Click to expand...

Thats good, i'm glad you were pleased with it. Is there some kind of problem or reason as to why you didn't post that information here for other people that might be interested in it?

Most of our cartridges come in factory built from Garrett. The B-52 gets a compressor swap from our Garrett Master Distributor. They are a distributor for 7 different turbo manufactures so it was their recommendation to use the B-52 compressor wheel. The 50-Trim and our new B.Y.O.T. program offers cartridges built in our "Clean Room" by seasoned professionals and balanced to less than a gram with our on site Heins balancer shown here. I hope this answers your questions. As for the real world testing, we'd like our customers to supply that data so that it is unbiased and not based solely on some fully modded, unlimited budget shop or race car. This would only mislead our potential customers in to thinking our turbos "Hung the Moon". We launched The Turbo Challenge to essentially re-pay our customers for trying our turbo and sharing their data. Think of it as an open sponsorship where anyone can qualify and earn up to $300.

1029TSG said:

We launched The Turbo Challenge to essentially re-pay our customers for trying our turbo and sharing their data. Think of it as an open sponsorship where anyone can qualify and earn up to $300.

Click to expand...

And just how much money have you paid out to date? Would it be possible to get some names and #'s? Possibly provide us with some emperical data to back up the claims of the performance of these turbos?

We just launched the program late last year and right in the middle of the off-season so the board is wide open. I never expected anyone to buy one of our turbos and set some kind of HP or track record on their first attempt.

I'm not sure who you're working for but more than half of your recent posts have been against Bullseye or The Speed Factor and some of which are a plug for an FP product. If thats the way our competitors wish to "steer" customers back in their direction I think that's very unprofessional. But, I guess when you take someone's "cookie" they will do anything to get it back.

1029TSG said:

We just launched the program late last year and right in the middle of the off-season so the board is wide open. I never expected anyone to buy one of our turbos and set some kind of HP or track record on their first attempt.

I'm not sure who you're working for but more than half of your recent posts have been against Bullseye or The Speed Factor and some of which are a plug for an FP product. If thats the way our competitors wish to "steer" customers back in their direction I think that's very unprofessional. But, I guess when you take someone's "cookie" they will do anything to get it back.

Click to expand...

Sorry. That didn't work on Hal, and it doesn't work for me either. I just happen to be a consumer like everyone else on this board. And am trying to push for emperical data for your products. Just so everyone in the DSM community can make educated decisions when it comes to buying a turbo. I push a lot of products to people, if I feel they work. If someone runs a good time, lays down a good dyno #, with certain parts on their car, I'll gladly recommend that part to someone interested in what to purchase. However, when it comes to your turbos, there is NO information. Nobody knows what the hell you are selling, nor do they know how it performs. It's kind of like saying "Here's a bag. Something is in it. Buy it" We ask, "What's in the bag?" You say "we can't tell you". We ask, "How does it work or how well does it perform" You say "we can't tell you that either"

We aren't asking for track records or HP records with your turbos. All we are asking for are test #'s, peformance #'s, SOMETHING to indicate what the turbo is capable of. Having the general public do your beta testing is NOT a good idea. FP learned this the hard way. Case in point was their FP3055. One individual got the turbo, didn't like the results he got with it, then basically told all the boards about it. He didn't like the fact that it didn't spool up as fast as his FP Green did. FP took the EXACT turbo that came off the kids car, and made great #'s with it. However, the damage was done. Nobody bought it because of ONE customer's bad review.

Now, if YOU do the research, and show what the turbo can do on a properly built car with proper tuning, THEN you can say "this is what the turbo CAN do. It requires full supporting mods and good tuning." But having the general public, that for the most part, can't tune their car to extract it's full potential, do your testing, well. You can use the FP3055 as your model. So far, you have 2 examples out there, for the T04B turbos. 282whp and 296whp. One of them was even tuned by a very reputable shop. So...from a consumers standpoint, that's ALL we have to go from as of now. Maybe you SHOULD take your big buck shop car and lay some #'s down. That way, you have SOME reference point. Better than none.

Oh, and for that cookie, I wish someone would hand one hand. I could always use free cookies

If you want to help out the community and you aren't biased or affiliated with any other competitior why not answer the "Big Question"? Buy one of our turbos, anything you'd like and compare it against whatever you are running now and post all the data, track times, dyno, data logs and so on. If you're not completely satisfied and dont want to keep it then send it back for a full refund. In fact I will offer this opportunity to the first person who is capable of making a fair comparison of our turbo vs. what they are currently running. We have already tested all these combinations by sending out test units years ago (no shop car), we just dont post this biased data all over our website.

V-trim = 11.7 at 115/391 whp
V-trim = 401 whp
H-3 = 525 whp w/ water injection
HX-35 = 494 whp
HX-35 = 7.62 1/8th mile
HX-40 = 549 whp at 20 psi
HX-40 = 596 whp at 28 psi

These are all seperate test units on different set ups tested over the last 3 years ranging from basic bolt ons to fully built motors. Some of this information can be found in our picture and video section.

For the record, I bought a RS60T for reasons REDRKT pointed out after I bought it.

Secondly, NOSLO2PT0, you're making this thread taste like skunked beer

The U.S. economy is a free market economy, and if a vendor cannot perform, the vendor eventually withers away and dies.

On TOP of that, some of those vendors SUPPORT various business mechanisms such as one with consumer informational slants, like DSMTuners.com.

Moreover, and glaringly obvious by the title of this thread, the information contained therein should be specific to the B-52 turbocharger PRODUCT.

On a side note, as a 40-something research engineer at a gas turbine company, testing can be exceedingly expen$ive. I ask for 2.5x just so I can get 1x in my lab. Certain business models such as Bulls-eye's can be rather risky, but I mean really, for chrissakes, lbs-air per minute, 11:1 F/A ratio, so much energy per lbm of fuel, you get so much horsepower. If you want #'s written in stone, then goto FP, Buschur, etc, and spend the extra couple hundred dollars for that BR580, FP3065, etc, etc. People like you are why many products in our economy are overly priced: it's not greed, it's some jacka** in the company who wanted to spend 99% more time to get that extra 1%, raising final product cost and bringing down profitability (and year end bonus checks).

Let's all get along, and let the vendors (especially those that sponsor this, not yours, it's actually Chris' website) prove themselves in this economy we live in. I don't want to hear whining/conjecture/whatif's from your non-Bullseye patronizing mouth, I want to hear, as you say it, real numbers from an actual Bullseye customer. Until then, STFU.

<Moderator, you'll hear from me regarding this. I also realize this violates the forum posting rules. Thanks for hearing this.>

Why in god's name did this thread get turned into a debate about a company?
There's no need for bashing one company oand glorifying another simply because you get good item's from that specific company.


You know who I'm addressing.. I really don't see a point in listing names. I'm simply going to say that get this thread back on topic please. Also concerning the turbo at question, I have a question and I assume all the users would like this question answered.


What compressor wheel is being used in the turbo? Also if it has to be compared to a specific trim then what trim would that be?

Stating the answer to these two questions may just get more of them sold in my opinion.
But again that's an opinion.


Thank you
John

1029TSG said:

If you want to help out the community and you aren't biased or affiliated with any other competitior why not answer the "Big Question"? Buy one of our turbos, anything you'd like and compare it against whatever you are running now and post all the data, track times, dyno, data logs and so on. If you're not completely satisfied and dont want to keep it then send it back for a full refund. In fact I will offer this opportunity to the first person who is capable of making a fair comparison of our turbo vs. what they are currently running.

Click to expand...

I would love to do some testing for you. However, I'm not paying anyone so I can be a beta tester. That's up to you. Send me a turbo and everything I need to mount it up, and I'll slap it on my car. That's called R&D, beta testing, etc. Unfortunately, I probably wouldn't be a great guinea pig, as I would need a new O2 housing as well I'll gladly flog the turbo, and tell you exactly what ET/MPH I get out of it. But, which turbo would you be sending me? One of the smaller T04B's? Or one of the B-52's? Or something that is similiar to my FP Green?

We have already tested all these combinations by sending out test units years ago (no shop car), we just dont post this biased data all over our website. These are all seperate test units on different set ups tested over the last 3 years ranging from basic bolt ons to fully built motors. Some of this information can be found in our picture and video section.

Click to expand...

That's the problem. We, as consumers, have NO idea what you tested these turbos on. All I can see on your picture page is a car with "549whp@20psi" listed, but nothing else. No turbo size, no mods, no nothing. Then, you show "425 whp on pump gas", with just a picture of a turbine housing. How on earth that help with anything?

Jezzuz-h-key-rist, NOSPOLLUTION, you realize ALL AGP says on their RS60 is:

"...The RS60 is for those interested in some serious timeslips, and still have a pretty wicked "street" car. We have already been able to get 534 whp and 445ft/lbs to the ground on one of our cars. All that power and the ability to reach 30psi by 4000rpm..."

ALL FP says about the red is:

"Pruven Performance went 9.90 @ 142mph on an off the shelf Red turbo, Curt Brown has run a best of 9.87 @ 145.7 with his FPRed model turbocharger, and Dale Nardozzi has run 10.275 @ 132.75mph using an FPRed in his VR4 Galant! All these were WITHOUT NITROUS

No crybabies allowed
The Red model is a drag race turbo, capable of producing in excess of 600 horsepower. "

ALL Buschur says about their BR580 is:

" BR 580 TURBOCHARGER" and then the usual, "Add to basket"

So what the f**k do you want Bullseye to do?!?!?! Okay, post a spreadsheet of EVERY part, aftermarket and OEM, price paid, vendor bought from, when it was installed, any clearances/torques the part was set to, pictures at each step (pasted into the spreadsheet), VIN number of the block, chassis it was installed in, type of dyno used, date, temperature, humidity, time of day, 19 to 25 psi pulls in 1 psi increments, then rinse and repeat for 110 octane, rinse and repeat for 116.

Again, I'm a AGP/FP customer, never bought a turbo from Bullseye/TSF. I just feel the vendor is getting needled "needlessly" (is that redundant? ) which is bad for business, and we as cheap DSM consumers need MORE competition.

1029TSG, your marketing pretty much matches the other vendors. Thank you for both supporting and sponsoring this website.

1029TSG said:

Most of our cartridges come in factory built from Garrett. The B-52 gets a compressor swap from our Garrett Master Distributor. They are a distributor for 7 different turbo manufactures so it was their recommendation to use the B-52 compressor wheel.

Click to expand...

Your Garrett Master distributer custom builds the B52? Forgive me if i'm missing something, but why would a Garrett distributer swap or recommend swapping in a non-Garrett compressor wheel into their turbo? I don't see how Garrett would warranty a turbo that didn't consist 100% of their parts.

1029TSG said:

The 50-Trim and our new B.Y.O.T. program offers cartridges built in our "Clean Room" by seasoned professionals and balanced to less than a gram with our on site Heins balancer shown here.

Click to expand...

So Eagle Alloy forging company here in Michigan has also added on a turbo building department and staffing to it's facility, and all the BYOT's are built there? That is pretty cool to have such a thing so close to home. One thing i don't understand about this though, is why do these turbo's need to be custom built at all? Aren't all the possible compressor and turbine wheel combo's you offer available to you by special ordering them straight from Garrett? For example, can't a TO4B housing with a TO4E 50 trim comp wheel/stage 3 turbine wheel CHRA be ordered directly from Garrett by you, then swapped into your turbine housing?

1029TSG said:

As for the real world testing, we'd like our customers to supply that data so that it is unbiased and not based solely on some fully modded, unlimited budget shop or race car. This would only mislead our potential customers in to thinking our turbos "Hung the Moon".

Click to expand...

I'm not following your logic or line of thought here. I'm sure the customers would like you to supply some data on the turbo before they buy it as well. As long as the mods of the car are accurately listed, it doesn't matter if it has every mod or is stock. It is good to see the turbo's performance on either car, people have a good idea of what the turbo should make given the mods on the car. Sure, you could lie about the mods on the car to try to make your turbo look good, hell you could even just flat out fabricate an awesome dyno chart that never happened, but an honest and reputable vendor wouldn't do anything like that.

Would it be possible for you to post a compressor map of the B52? I don't think that could hurt anything. How about posting the data of the B52's compressor wheel performance on the other applications you tested it on? Can you comment on the benefits of using the TO4B housing instead of the TO4E on the B52?

Thanks Tmizer

Yes, they swap the compressor wheel before shipping the CHRA to us. They are a distributor for 7 different turbo manufacturers so they put together various combinations for their customers. Garrett likely never has to warranty anything since 99% of turbo failure is due to contaminated oil or lack of oil pressure. Just think of all the T-25's out there that survive past the 3yr/36K warranty. Yes, we have ramped up with lots of inventory and build room for this new BYOT program. No, you can't just order any combination you want from Garrett. They might sell the piece parts but not always offer them as complete units. This is the reason you have so many turbo shops building hybrids and mix matching components.

Thanks for the information, that helps me to understand things better. How about the compressor map of the B52? Would it be possible for you to post that?

Take the other crap to PM's.

Any posts I see otherwise will be deleted and suspensions will be handed out.

1029TSG said:

Garrett likely never has to warranty anything since 99% of turbo failure is due to contaminated oil or lack of oil pressure. Just think of all the T-25's out there that survive past the 3yr/36K warranty.

Click to expand...

So does this mean the B52 doesn't come with your 12 month or optional 24 month"No Hassle" warranty as prostreetdsmx1's customer ITSME4G63 previously thought? What does the warranty on the B52 consist of?

Aren't lack of oil or contaminated oil failures covered under your "No Hassle" warranty on all your other turbo's that are bought brand new from Garrett and consist of all Garrett parts?

tmizer said:

The U.S. economy is a free market economy, and if a vendor cannot perform, the vendor eventually withers away and dies.

On TOP of that, some of those vendors SUPPORT various business mechanisms such as one with consumer informational slants, like DSMTuners.com.

Click to expand...

They did. The Mutt turbo company did wither away and die. But then it came back!! Same owner, different names. Oh, and if you haven't noticed, Bullseye is no longer a Sponsor for this site. I wonder why?

Moreover, and glaringly obvious by the title of this thread, the information contained therein should be specific to the B-52 turbocharger PRODUCT.

Click to expand...

All I, and many others, have been asking for is technical data, performance data, ANY data at all regarding this B-52 turbo. We would like something more than "it flows in excess of 53 lbs/min".

On a side note, as a 40-something research engineer at a gas turbine company, testing can be exceedingly expen$ive. I ask for 2.5x just so I can get 1x in my lab. Certain business models such as Bulls-eye's can be rather risky, but I mean really, for chrissakes, lbs-air per minute, 11:1 F/A ratio, so much energy per lbm of fuel, you get so much horsepower. If you want #'s written in stone, then goto FP, Buschur, etc, and spend the extra couple hundred dollars for that BR580, FP3065, etc, etc. People like you are why many products in our economy are overly priced: it's not greed, it's some jacka** in the company who wanted to spend 99% more time to get that extra 1%, raising final product cost and bringing down profitability (and year end bonus checks).

Click to expand...

! Heaven forbid a company does actual testing on a product before releasing it to the general public. They wouldn't want to make sure their product actually performs as well as advertised. That would be horrible. Imagine the extra profit they might see when their product performs as well in the world as it does in test environments. Then word gets out that the turbos work well, make the #'s they are supposed to, then sales actually increase. But no......let's hype up a turbo, not disclose any information about it, nor disclose any testing results, and let the masses of uninformed buy it up.

Let's all get along, and let the vendors (especially those that sponsor this, not yours, it's actually Chris' website) prove themselves in this economy we live in. I don't want to hear whining/conjecture/whatif's from your non-Bullseye patronizing mouth, I want to hear, as you say it, real numbers from an actual Bullseye customer. Until then, STFU.

<Moderator, you'll hear from me regarding this. I also realize this violates the forum posting rules. Thanks for hearing this.>

Click to expand...

Wow, those are harsh words. If you do'nt want to hear my "whining/conjecture/whatif's, turn your ####ing computer off, wipe the sand out of your clit, and unsubscribe from this post. All I'm doing is badgering to get information about a turbo. Possibly for YOUR benefit. Surely not mine. I've already got a proven turbo. But I'm not here preaching about MY turbo anymore. I haven't mentioned a word about it. I'm merely trying to get information about this B-52 turbo, which NOBODY seems to have or wants to give out. As for the "hearing it from an actual Bullseye customer, why don't you take your keyboard warrior ass and go buy one and slap it on your car. See how it does. Dave has offered to sell you a turbo, and if you aren't satisfied, he will gladly refund your money. How bout it, cowboy?