I was told today by the local car shop that I should replace the front engine cover/oil pump. This is a 2.4 stroker motor that I am putting together, well 4G63 block bored .040 over. What do you guys think? Can I use my original one? Or should I get a new one and if so where can I get one? Thanks.

Always replace it and pack the oil pump gears with vasoline and assembly lube. Why chance anything when building a motor is my mato.

Yeah your right about not chancing it. But where can i get a new one for a good price?

Try Autozone? They might sell the covers? Slowboyracing might on their site on, or you can call and they should have one for you.

canucatchdis said:

Yeah your right about not chancing it. But where can i get a new one for a good price?

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http://www.mitsupartsdirect.com/ or www.rockvillemitsubishi.com . Same place.

I just bought mine about a month and a half ago + other stuff for my Jan. 91 Talon TSi AWD. Here is the price breakdown. Find somewhere else that can beat them and ALL these parts are OEM.
Front cover: MD175762 ..$158.24
Gear, Eng.: MD174581 ..$39.23
Gear, Eng.: MD174582 ..$19.82

That was with free shipping too.

thanks man. I really appreciate it.

No problem. Just for comparisons' sake, SBR sells that same OEM front cover with NO gears for $259. $100 more!!

The topline front case is far cheaper and is virtually identical to the Mitsu one, you'll have to use a magnifying glass to see any differences ...

diambo4life said:

No problem. Just for comparisons' sake, SBR sells that same OEM front cover with NO gears for $259. $100 more!!

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Thats because we want people to use the Topline front cover and gears. I have been using them for 4 years with no issues, and we sell about 15-20 of them a week, and it works like a champ... for $179.00 with front cover, gaskets, and gears... it cannot be beat.

MGH

canucatchdis said:

Yeah your right about not chancing it. But where can i get a new one for a good price?

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Don't forget about Jackson Auto Machine. They have some decent prices, 178.95.

I'd have to disagree. The gaskets that are supplied are paper junk that need to be copper sprayed if you actually want them to not leak.
I just removed a topline front case yesterday that had 200 miles on it and found that the gears were digging into the side of the housing. The pump literally had more wear then a 120k ABUSED pump that I put next to it for comparison sake.

The helicut gears are nice since they make things quieter, but they are also known for being weaker.

Your best bet is to take the pump apart and take a look at everything, its very simple. If anything needs to be replaced then go ahead and replace the parts. Always replace the two seals, and put a thin layer of RVT around where it seats in the housing.

Good luck.
Later/joe

bigjdog84 said:

I'd have to disagree. The gaskets that are supplied are paper junk that need to be copper sprayed if you actually want them to not leak.
I just removed a topline front case yesterday that had 200 miles on it and found that the gears were digging into the side of the housing. The pump literally had more wear then a 120k ABUSED pump that I put next to it for comparison sake.

The helicut gears are nice since they make things quieter, but they are also known for being weaker.

Your best bet is to take the pump apart and take a look at everything, its very simple. If anything needs to be replaced then go ahead and replace the parts. Always replace the two seals, and put a thin layer of RVT around where it seats in the housing.

Good luck.
Later/joe

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Mine never leaked. Did you run a chaser tap in the holes before you put the bolts back in? Did you re-use the stock bolts, or spring for new ones? Did you use a little red thread lock, or no? Did you really get all of the old gasket off before you put the new one on?

I would say, the preperation before installing your new front cover is 90% of the work. If you had this bad of a time with a Topline pump, assume your preperation was not up to par, or blame it on the part since its so much easier.

MGH

Mike, that would be a correct assumption if I was a complete idiot.

I cleaned and used the old stock bolts and the threads on the side on the block were also chased. There is no reason not to re-use them, unless they are stretched. Yes I always use some locktite on those bolts. M8- 17 ft. lbs, M10- 22 ft. lbs

No offense, but I'd rather not buy 7 or 8 bolts that were purchased from a hardware store and put in a bag for 8$. Some people will though if they don't have the tools to measure bolt stretch.

Topline gaskets are notorious for failure. Since they aren't coated like OEM, they become saturated and eventually leak, its not rocket science.

I don't want to start a pissing match, but the bottom line is for a couple more bucks you can save yourself alot of headaches.

Maybe leon can chime in on his experience with his old topline pump.

bigjdog84 said:

Mike, that would be a correct assumption if I was a complete idiot.

I cleaned and used the old stock bolts and the threads on the side on the block were also chased. There is no reason not to re-use them, unless they are stretched. Yes I always use some locktite on those bolts. M8- 17 ft. lbs, M10- 22 ft. lbs

No offense, but I'd rather not buy 7 or 8 bolts that were purchased from a hardware store and put in a bag for 8$. Some people will though if they don't have the tools to measure bolt stretch.

Topline gaskets are notorious for failure. Since they aren't coated like OEM, they become saturated and eventually leak, its not rocket science.

I don't want to start a pissing match, but the bottom line is for a couple more bucks you can save yourself alot of headaches.

Maybe leon can chime in on his experience with his old topline pump.

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Precisely. It's the reason I went with OEM on mine. Think about it, really, are they really "identical" if they are being sold that cheaper than OEM? I will spend the extra $25 and get OEM anyday. I'm glad I did. Sorry SBR.

I've seen quite a few people complaining about the topline case/gears after only a few hundred/thousand miles also. Mitsu gaskets are far superior to the toplines as well. I think quality is much more important than saving a few bucks.

I had a topline pump/case on my personal car with excessive wear to the case in 2k. I only use geniune mitsu front cases and oil pump gears on my own car and customer cars now. $100 is not worth the risk.

I have used both Topline front cover/ oil pump and a found it to be a POS. The case can't handle the timing belt tension and the gears and shaft eat into the case. As far as the Topline gaskets. They suck as bad as their oil pumps. Slowboy sold to me and claimed that is what they used. Listen everyone and Slowboy. Topline products are complete crap. Don't waste your money like I did to save a $. It has cost me fortune in additional parts and labor do my trying to save a $ and buying Topline products. Factory is the only way to go. Thanks for the space.

bigjdog84 said:

Mike, that would be a correct assumption if I was a complete idiot.

I cleaned and used the old stock bolts and the threads on the side on the block were also chased. There is no reason not to re-use them, unless they are stretched. Yes I always use some locktite on those bolts. M8- 17 ft. lbs, M10- 22 ft. lbs

No offense, but I'd rather not buy 7 or 8 bolts that were purchased from a hardware store and put in a bag for 8$. Some people will though if they don't have the tools to measure bolt stretch.

Topline gaskets are notorious for failure. Since they aren't coated like OEM, they become saturated and eventually leak, its not rocket science.

I don't want to start a pissing match, but the bottom line is for a couple more bucks you can save yourself alot of headaches.

Maybe leon can chime in on his experience with his old topline pump.

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No one here said anything about you being an idiot, except for you!

BTW, they are not just some "hardware bolts" they were made for us by fastenal company, with the correct head, pitch, bolt length, etc. So, assuming you want to use old bolts is a really bad idea, I to had problems years ago re-using bolts than had been used for 150K, and well over ten years old. If you think a bolt should only be replaced if it is a "stretch bolt" you are out of your noggin, there are many other reasons to factor in to why you should replace old, used, worn out bolts.

Topline gaskets are again as good as the prep work done, I never had one leak. Do you use high tack like suggested on the block side of the gasket, or did you never really care to read that far into the correct assembly procedure? Both Nathan and I have complete Topline gasket sets on our 600 plus WHP motors, no leaky leaky. Well, o.k. his Topline head gasket gave way at 639 WHP. Sorry, my bad. This was after 20 plus 600 WHP runs.

Bottom line is, just because some people have had a bad experience with a piece, just does not mean the product is at fault. 99% of the time, its user/ installer error.

BTW.... my first bad experience with a oil pump was my new Mitsu gears coming out of the front cover through my timing belt cover. Can you say what a mess? Does this mean the Mitsu front cover and gears are crap, or may I have done something wrong? I am betting on the latter, since this was 1997 and I left a mean ol' oil trail down Beaver Bob's track... Sorry Beaver Bob!

MGH

diambo4life said:

Precisely. It's the reason I went with OEM on mine. Think about it, really, are they really "identical" if they are being sold that cheaper than OEM? I will spend the extra $25 and get OEM anyday. I'm glad I did. Sorry SBR.

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Think about it... Topline has the LARGEST aluminum foundry in the world, second to NONE..... and then ask yourself again why they are so much cheaper....

Do you know how many "more expensive" names are just re-baged "Topline" pieces? Like the expensive "Toga Racing" pump..... .... It has the same PN as the Topline piece

BTW, $40.00 more for OEM. Not busting on your math, just want accurate information.

No worries, or any need to be sorry... we will be usung the Topline pump on all of our cars here, as a matter of fact... most of our guys have them on there own DSM.

MGH

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

YOU put the TOPLINE crap in your cars, I will use OEM on mine. End of story. Maybe you mistake some of us for the current "Tooner" crowd that wants to save $5 for an inferior part. For an important engine componnent such as the oil pump, I will use OEM - always. I don't even know why I am arguing this.


Alright Einstein, I said "$25 more" since I included the approximate shipping fee from SBR which will bring the difference to about the said amount. Nah, I'm not busting your arithmetic skills at all either.

diambo4life said:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

YOU put the TOPLINE crap in your cars, I will use OEM on mine. End of story. Maybe you mistake some of us for the current "Tooner" crowd that wants to save $5 for an inferior part. For an important engine componnent such as the oil pump, I will use OEM - always. I don't even know why I am arguing this.


Alright Einstein, I said "$25 more" since I included the approximate shipping fee from SBR which will bring the difference to about the said amount. Nah, I'm not busting your arithmetic skills at all either.

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You see, everyone has an opinion, and even people like yourself are entitled to it. However, you know what they say about opinions. Come back with some hard core facts, and maybe I will give you a serious thought. Until then, rock on.

PS... even at $10.00 shipping, that would be $30.00 more. Since you seem to want to play games.

The way I know the Tuners, is prove something works, and can save a few bucks, and its a good piece. I can also prove this by running a sales report showing 176 pumps selling in the last 365 days. So, I would say most people have great luck with this piece, including ourselves.

MGH

Not to bust anybody's balls here, but I am currently using Topline products in both my Eclipse and Talon including the front case. For the first part of the original post, yes most defintely replace it, as others have said there is no reason not to. And as far as the quality of Topline compared to OEM, I have not had any problems with my Topline products, now I am not saying that it can't happen just the fact that it hasn't to me.

Jake

Slowboy said:

No one here said anything about you being an idiot, except for you!

BTW, they are not just some "hardware bolts" they were made for us by fastenal company, with the correct head, pitch, bolt length, etc. So, assuming you want to use old bolts is a really bad idea, I to had problems years ago re-using bolts than had been used for 150K, and well over ten years old. If you think a bolt should only be replaced if it is a "stretch bolt" you are out of your noggin, there are many other reasons to factor in to why you should replace old, used, worn out bolts.

Topline gaskets are again as good as the prep work done, I never had one leak. Do you use high tack like suggested on the block side of the gasket, or did you never really care to read that far into the correct assembly procedure? Both Nathan and I have complete Topline gasket sets on our 600 plus WHP motors, no leaky leaky. Well, o.k. his Topline head gasket gave way at 639 WHP. Sorry, my bad. This was after 20 plus 600 WHP runs.

Bottom line is, just because some people have had a bad experience with a piece, just does not mean the product is at fault. 99% of the time, its user/ installer error.

BTW.... my first bad experience with a oil pump was my new Mitsu gears coming out of the front cover through my timing belt cover. Can you say what a mess? Does this mean the Mitsu front cover and gears are crap, or may I have done something wrong? I am betting on the latter, since this was 1997 and I left a mean ol' oil trail down Beaver Bob's track... Sorry Beaver Bob!

MGH

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In your previous post you were pointing your finger at me.
"If you had this bad of a time with a Topline pump, assume your preperation was not up to par, or blame it on the part since its so much easier. "

And again...
Do you use high tack like suggested on the block side of the gasket, or did you never really care to read that far into the correct assembly procedure?

All of the people that have properly installed re-used, unstretched, oil pump cover bolts and have had them fail please raise your hands. I think your going to be alone on this one mike.

Using a topline gasket kit on a car that is going to be built for quite a bit of power is just asking for problems. I don't care how many pulls you put on the car or how good your prep was. Its called cutting corners by using gaskets that are made out of construction paper we used to draw on in 1st grade.

Bottom line is, just because some people have had a bad experience with a piece, just does not mean the product is at fault. 99% of the time, its user/ installer error.

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Thats a pretty bolt statement. I hope you tell customers that when their car comes back for a second time

You may want to save face now, as your points are pretty pathetic and I would expect more as a customer then to have you start pointing fingers at me. Meanwhile you know nothing about the work that I do, and I've seen alot of jobs come out of your shop and choose to reserve comment.

Just because its more expensive and made by Mitsu does not make it better. Don't get me wrong, for some parts the OEM product has no substitues; however the oil pump is not one of them. We have used these pumps for years and never had a problem. They are of the same quality as the Mitsu pumps and even come with the gears and gaskets that, when installed properly, have never leaked. I've used the topline pump in all my motors, including the AWD race car with no problems.

Nate
SBR

bigjdog84 said:

In your previous post you were pointing your finger at me.
"If you had this bad of a time with a Topline pump, assume your preperation was not up to par, or blame it on the part since its so much easier. "

And again...
Do you use high tack like suggested on the block side of the gasket, or did you never really care to read that far into the correct assembly procedure?

All of the people that have properly installed re-used, unstretched, oil pump cover bolts and have had them fail please raise your hands. I think your going to be alone on this one mike.

Using a topline gasket kit on a car that is going to be built for quite a bit of power is just asking for problems. I don't care how many pulls you put on the car or how good your prep was. Its called cutting corners by using gaskets that are made out of construction paper we used to draw on in 1st grade.


Thats a pretty bolt statement. I hope you tell customers that when their car comes back for a second time

You may want to save face now, as your points are pretty pathetic and I would expect more as a customer then to have you start pointing fingers at me. Meanwhile you know nothing about the work that I do, and I've seen alot of jobs come out of your shop and choose to reserve comment.

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Save face?

For you?

Why?

My points are quite valid, and I have a lot more experience than the other people trying to argue with me about Topline front covers!

What points are not valid?

Do you build 100 shortblocks a year?

We are talking about a front cover gasket, if you do not install properly, it will FAIL. I do not care what gasket you put in there! Preperation is still 90% of the work, you want to argue with that?

Us using a Topline head gasket was for FUN.... we were curious as to the type of abuse it would withstand.... you think I did it to save a few bucks? ... our race car we will debut this year is over the $100,000 mark.. you think I care about saving a few bucks? Are you serious? It was all in FUN! HAHA

PS... those who really know us, know we hardly do ANY customer cars here in the shop, we are to busy with our own projects. The last car to leave here was a fully built EVO VIII, and that was the only big project other than our own cars in the last six months. We are not in the "garage" business.

Unless you want to show up here and talk face to face, please refrain from being an internet tough guy who likes to sling poop.

MGH