can you use radiator hose for fmic piping?

ryu · Oct 27, 2004

well if this is possible. how much diff will it make vs hard pipes? wouldnt this be very cheap?i mean we use the same stuff for our stock intercoolers right? im not talking about running crazy pressure tho. 20's and under. :confused:

VBGSX · Oct 27, 2004

I myself and others that I know have used radiator hose for couplers.
Before I bought my AGP kit, my radiator hose couplers saw 20 lbs of boost regularly.
No problems at all.

ryu · Oct 27, 2004

VBGSX said:
I myself and others that I know have used radiator hose for couplers.
Before I bought my AGP kit, my radiator hose couplers saw 20 lbs of boost regularly.
No problems at all.

yeah thats how i came up with idea in the first place. but does this mean that you could just use the hose to replace all the pipes? not just couplers. all fmic pipes. :confused:

if you could do 20 psi safe then wouldnt this be a great deal rather than getting steel or alumi? could save like a hundred bucks. :confused:

ADrewzki · Oct 27, 2004

ryu said:
yeah thats how i came up with idea in the first place. but does this mean that you could just use the hose to replace all the pipes? not just couplers. all fmic pipes. if you could do 20 psi safe then wouldnt this be a great deal rather than getting steel or alumi? could save like a hundred bucks.

That's a pretty good question. I dunno if it'd trust the cheap black stuff but I'd definitely be willing to try the braided stuff that some vendors are selling with some heavy-duty clamps. Heck, try it and let us know! :thumb:

ryu · Oct 27, 2004

ADrewzki said:
That's a pretty good question. I dunno if it'd trust the cheap black stuff but I'd definitely be willing to try the braided stuff that some vendors are selling with some heavy-duty clamps. Heck, try it and let us know!

i dont think the hose is crap tho... i mean isnt it the same hose used for the stock upper intercooler pipe on our cars? :confused:

ADrewzki · Oct 27, 2004

ryu said:
i dont think the hose is crap tho... i mean isnt it the same hose used for the stock upper intercooler pipe on our cars?

Is it? I took off a rubber one off my friend's GST but when I changed mine out it was all hard plastic. I dunno which one was stock but that rubber one was mighty flimsy

ryu · Oct 27, 2004

i just checked the hose and it is a little diff. both are the same hardness but the uic hose is bigger. somebody said that you could buy a 2.5 inch radiator hose and use them as couplers. so maybe i could just use 2.5 for all the pipes??? enles somebody says otherwise i think i might try it when i get a fmic. has anyone tried this?doesnt seem like some radical idea. :talon:

Turbonium · Oct 27, 2004

i didn't order enough mandrel bends from jcwhitney so i ended up using 2.5 inch 90's for 2 connections and they work fine, i got them from a trucking store but thye are like 20 a piece. the problem w/ radiator hose opposed to steel or aluminum is that it flexes which is not the best thing to have, so for couplers yea its fine but for elbows liek i did its up to you i know i'll be replacing mine shortly.
ryan

RoasT BeeF · Oct 27, 2004

You can use them but they will flow like crap. I assume you bought the FMIC for added performance so why would you want to get cheap on the piping and loose performance? There is a reason that people ugrade even the stock pipes. Rubber doesnt flow as good and I am guessing you wont find radiator hose bigger than 1.5" And even 20psi is pushing it with rubber pipes IMO.

If it worked worth a damn, everyone would use it.

AL92 · Oct 28, 2004

I have problems with my stock lower intercooler hose when installed my 50 trim .it was bending funny and getting pinched closed.I bought a rad hose in two inch it looks like it fit over the 2 inch welded on elbow on my RS 49 turbo.It has steel coil in there and it dont kink or pinch off.I put it on as temp meausure but the factory upper and lower are just rubber hoses.I can't see the big deal short term but like others said hardpipe is better and will go for that shortlyAlso buddy build his lines from abs or mabye its called pcv pipe and it works fine and is cheap.Proper piping is very expensive. So some other alternatives are kind of tempting.I hope i dont' blow my rad hose out but running under 20 in the soon to be winter weather.

aleccolin · Oct 28, 2004

The difference in the skin-friction or surface drag coefficients between the rubber hose and metal piping, assuming the same diameter and smooth interior surfaces, is minimal and would be impossible to measure in an application such as IC piping. Well, not impossible, but you wouldn't see any difference on the old butt dyno, or even a real one. Actually, the improved thermal properties of the hose (lower thermal conductivity) might actually outweigh the losses seen in skin-friction drag due to a decrease in heat gain from the engine compartment through the wall of the hose.

If you happen to be in an area with marine supply places, try to find somewhere that has different types of marine-use hoses and that makes custom hoses and hydraulic lines. I made an intake out of marine exhaust hose once and it worked great and had great insulative properties; it was stiff as hell too so it was just like hard piping. I used steel elbows for the bends.

VRMAN · Oct 28, 2004

Rubber rad hose will most likely expand and contract too much with the heat of the engine bay for the UICP and the FMIC for both pipes. Shitty expand/contract issues cause turbulance which causes a loss of smooth air flow which=shittier performance. With IC piping being not too expensive for steel or aluminum, I would stick with what works.

:thumb:

Tallen · Oct 28, 2004

Its badass as couplers...keep it that way!

wret · Oct 28, 2004

VRMAN said:
Rubber rad hose will most likely expand and contract too much with the heat of the engine bay for the UICP and the FMIC for both pipes. Shitty expand/contract issues cause turbulance which causes a loss of smooth air flow which=shittier performance. With IC piping being not too expensive for steel or aluminum, I would stick with what works.

Um, you mean it would expand and contract kind of like a radiator hose? Yeah, mine are always doing that.

Turbulence? You mean your "turb"-o doesn't create any of that shitty stuff?

There would be nothing wrong with a radiator type hose of the right length, shape and diameter, but your one good point is the cost. An equal length of steel or aluminum will be cheaper.

VRMAN · Oct 28, 2004

wret said:
Um, you mean it would expand and contract kind of like a radiator hose? Yeah, mine are always doing that.

You don't want your IC piping expanding and contracting, keeping an even flow is important for the function of the IC and turbo, so no you don't want that. I am speaking of using radiator hose as IC piping. If your radiator hose expands and contracts when being used as a radiator hose, thats great. High five.

Turbulence? You mean your "turb"-o doesn't create any of that shitty stuff?

Did you honestly just say that? Must uninformed, rediculous and hilarious retort I've ever heard. Jesus it reaks of ignorance and plain stupidity. I would say don't take it as flaming, but my god what a dumb answer. No my turbo produces forced induction power, not "turb" ulance.

There would be nothing wrong with a radiator type hose of the right length, shape and diameter, but your one good point is the cost. An equal length of steel or aluminum will be cheaper.

Maybe, maybe not. I more or less meant with the mass production of DSM parts, the competition between companies and vast already proven material options he has, there are cheap and effective solutions already out there w/o using radiatior hose.

wret · Oct 30, 2004

I may reek, but I dont think its of ignorance.

Far be it from me to give an erudite speech on fluid dynamics. But here are a couple of points that I can present as fact.

1. A turbo charger will create an extreme amount of turbulence. It is the air equivalent of a meat grinder. Blow some cigar smoke into a fan sometime and then try to convince me that the flow is laminar.

2. Turbulence isnt bad. Far from it: many engineers work hard trying to increase it. In the cylinders of an internal-combustion engine, turbulence enhances the mixing of fuel and oxygen and produces more efficient combustion.

Now back to opinion:

1. A rubber hose will not create more restriction (which I think may be your real concern when you mention turbulence) than a hard pipe.

2. A rubber hose will not expand and contact to an extent that it affects performance on engine producing maximum boost in the 15 psi range. Some report a loss of boost pressure in high boost diesel applications. This defies logic (mine). After all its still a closed system. Miniscule increase of boost lag maybe.

Back to the original questions:

Is using rubber hose for intercooler plumbing possible? Sure.
How much difference would it make compared to hard pipes? In his application, assembled properly, I say undetectable.
Wouldnt this be very cheap? Unless you have connections with a hose factory, no. Steel and aluminum is cheaper. I doubt you would ever find a single piece of rubber hose the right size and shape for the application. By the time you pieced together enough pieces to make it fit you would have a frankenpipe where restrictions might be a real concern.

Lets try to present helpful facts and identify our opinions as such (and maybe keep some of them to ourselves).

MadTripper · Oct 30, 2004

If rubber surfaces produce the same flow rates as their steel counterparts, wouldn't we have rubberized airplanes by now? While I'm sure the difference is minimal in this application, you can't justifiably say that there is no difference at all. I would think some type of vinyl hose with a smaller pore structure would provide a closer simulation to steel or aluminum than rubber radiator hose.

Just some food for thought.

Tripper

wret · Oct 30, 2004

MadTripper said:
If rubber surfaces produce the same flow rates as their steel counterparts, wouldn't we have rubberized airplanes by now?

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psychlow · Oct 31, 2004

"Rubber airplanes" is kind of a moot comparison. They use aluminum because it is light, yet sturdy. If you used rubber, your wing would deform, and you couldn't control the aircraft (boom.)

Regardless, this thread is EXTREMELY off-topic. They use cotton-woven rubber hose stock from the factory. It flexes a little but not much. It may reduce spool up by a fraction of a fraction of a second.

The one problem I see, as mentioned above, is getting an appropriate size/shape to fit your application. If you bend a straight piece of radiator hose, it collapses, which will kill flow. Meaning you're going to have to get a piece of adequate length, shape, and width, which will be hard unless you have it custom-made. The plus about metal is that it can be ordered in sections of the desired diameter, then cut and welded to fit. Rubber hose, on the other hand, cannot be welded together - you'd have to use a small piece of metal pipe and clamp down the two sections. Also, I don't know of anywhere that you can custom order bends of radiator hose. Maybe JCWhitney?

Either way, you're likely looking at roughly the same cost for a product that won't look as good as metal hard-piping, nor be quite as reliable. Rubber hose can kink and break much more easily than a metal tube.

MadTripper · Oct 31, 2004

psychlow said:
"Rubber airplanes" is kind of a moot comparison.

...wouldn't we have rubberized airplanes by now?

Major differences there. Just an example to clarify, a computer mouse ball is a rubberized ball bearing. The reason is so that there is more friction on the mating surface which provides accurate movement to the three sensors within the housing. If it was just the steel bearing, the surface would be smooth which in turn would lead to slippage, and poor functionality.

Rock and Roll

psychlow · Oct 31, 2004

MadTripper said:
If it was just the steel bearing, the surface would be smooth which in turn would lead to slippage, and poor functionality.

This is true. Same reason we use rubber tires on cars rather than steel.

If you look at it from an airflow point of view, though, the difference is negligable. Put the steel ball in a 1'' tube and measure pressurized airflow, then use the rubber-coated ball and do the same. The difference should be extremly minute. Same with comparing a metal tube to a rubber hose - the difference would be so small, it wouldn't be noticable.

MadTripper · Oct 31, 2004

While I'm sure the difference is minimal in this application, you can't justifiably say that there is no difference at all.

I concur as you can see from my earlier post.

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