What do you guys think of the phantom grip is it any good?

It locks the diff. While that might be good for drag racing it sucks for daily driving. I would use it only for a temp solution on a FWD until I could afford a Kaaz or Quaiffe.

leet said:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/kaazvstorsen.asp

Read.

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there is your asnwer, and that;s it, get kaaz.

I should be getting the kaaz very shortly. I have a pretty modded dsm. Nightmare knows some of my stuff. But i'll be glad to let you guys know how it performs and if your ever in STL let me know and i'll take you for a ride.

ITSME4G63 said:

there is your asnwer, and that;s it, get kaaz.

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Keep in mind that Marco is a salesman too.

He acts like the quaife is total crap, when it definately does have its merits.

Think about it from another poin of view, who isn't selling one of the two.

kpt4321 said:

Keep in mind that Marco is a salesman too.

He acts like the quaife is total crap, when it definately does have its merits.

Think about it from another poin of view, who isn't selling one of the two.

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Honestly you can say that about most salesmen but Marco is not known for selling crap. AND he definatly would not sell the Quaiffe if he had one fail on him the way that page says. Both guys are salesmen as well as drivers and mechanics. I would not think that either would sell complete crappy parts. John just needs to do a write up about the Kaaz vs Quaiffe to explain why the Quaiffe is better performance wise. Kyle your right though, both are great diffs but personally I would want the one that was rebuildable when needed. The odds of your average FWD DSMer killing either diff is going to be slim.

Truth is besides guys like Marco and Shep it's going to be very hard to find someone who has actually had the experience with both diffs. I mean serioulsy think about it. John says that the quaiffe is quieter than the kaaz while Marco says that the Torsen style is crap. I think I'll take noise (if any) over crap

DSMNightmare said:

Truth is besides guys like Marco and Shep it's going to be very hard to find someone who has actually had the experience with both diffs. I mean serioulsy think about it. John says that the quaiffe is quieter than the kaaz while Marco says that the Torsen style is crap. I think I'll take noise (if any) over crap

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Every perofrmance parts is designed and intended for a specific use. Whether it be road race, drag race, street, circle track, etc..... I wanted the best diff. for the street. Hence my decision to go with Quaife. No offense to Kaaz, it sounds very nice, but it's not as streetable. Torsion style happens to be one of the most popular style diffs, so they are obviously not crap. It's not a "noise vs. crap" issue. It's the "street style diff. vs. race diff." Like I said, I like both, but I think I made a wise decision by going with a torsion style.

DSMNightmare said:

both are great diffs but personally I would want the one that was rebuildable when needed. The odds of your average FWD DSMer killing either diff is going to be slim.

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Personally, I would want a diff. that would never need rebuilding, like a torsion. Neither Shep, nor I have ever heard of a DSMer killing a front Quaife diff. Hence another reason for my decision.

99gst_racer said:

Every perofrmance parts is designed and intended for a specific use. Whether it be road race, drag race, street, circle track, etc..... I wanted the best diff. for the street. Hence my decision to go with Quaife. No offense to Kaaz, it sounds very nice, but it's not as streetable. Torsion style happens to be one of the most popular style diffs, so they are obviously not crap. It's not a "noise vs. crap" issue. It's the "street style diff. vs. race diff." Like I said, I like both, but I think I made a wise decision by going with a torsion style.




Personally, I would want a diff. that would never need rebuilding, like a torsion. Neither Shep, nor I have ever heard of a DSMer killing a front Quaife diff. Hence another reason for my decision.

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I know what your saying and I don't think your decision is bad. Nor am I saying anything bad about John here. I'm just saying very few people actually have real world experience with both of these diffs to make this decision. As for the noise... look at it this way. I have heard TONS of people say not to use the Walbro 255hp pump because it makes a lot noise as well. I have two DSMs and my FWD makes noise with it but my AWD does not make a sound. I assumed that this meant that it was a AWD vs FWD thing. Later I found out that there are several folks who have AWDs that have noisy walbros and several FWD folks who's walbros don't make a sound. Like you said when John had it in his 1G he said it was louder than the quaiffe, but I can't see how you can take that and assume that it is not good for street use based on one persons experience in a car different than yours. Like I said my buddies car performed as a daily driver every single day and he had NO NOISE and NO DRIVABILTY issues. Also the Kaaz is a very good diff for running on the twisty roads because of the fact that under hard cornering conditions it does not loose power under weight transfer. Finally I know you and John both don't know any DSMers who have blown a Quaiffe and honestly neither do I but my point is that IF and WHEN they do go the Quaiffe would be more likely to take the tranny with it.

Rebuilding a Kaaz diff is not a big deal. Pull the tranny, pop the diff, and rebuild it. Also it's not very expensive from what I was told either. But then again that depends on what your idea of expensive is. Like I said BOTH diffs are very nice but they both have thier down sides and both have thier upsides. Maybe you should take a poll of all the FWD people on here who have Kaaz and ask them if thier diff is noisy and streetable. That would put this to rest.

I'm not sure we need to hear from someone with experience with both the Quaife and the Kaaz. We already know they're both very good. IMHO most of the DSM'ers who are trying to decide between these diffs only have experience with the stock diff, and that's all that matters since the stock diff SUCKS!

"what if the Quaife breaks?" The Quaife is guaranteed for life. You should see how much metal is used in the case. Compared to the stock diff the Quaife is a freakin bank vault! I couldn't believe how easy it was to break the stock diff in my FWD, and I was only at the mid 13 second 1/4 mile time range. It was a huge PITA to clean out the tranny, and I was lucky that I caught it early. If I hadn't caught it early I would have a real horror story to tell. I wish I had upgraded the diff much earier.

I hope there isn't anyone out there driving on the stock diff just because they can't decide which diff to get. Make a choice, anything is better than stock. Flip a coin if you have to!

Magnus is a great company. Having said that...

The fact that they down-talk the Torsen (Quaife) because of inferiority under wheel lift is quite odd. Anyone doing racing that is intense enough to lift a wheel on their DSM needs to switch cars.

Oh well, let the salesmen begin!

!^3 said:

Magnus is a great company. Having said that...

The fact that they down-talk the Torsen (Quaife) because of inferiority under wheel lift is quite odd. Anyone doing racing that is intense enough to lift a wheel on their DSM needs to switch cars.

Oh well, let the salesmen begin!

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I think the wheel lift Marco is referring to is when under hard cornering.

Well it looks like i'll be buying the kaaz later on this week. Also i have a fwd and have a walbro 255 and i dont hear it at all. Honestly who cares about noise over effeciency. If noise comes down to it u shouldn't own a dsm. Hell the belts always squek on these cars. I go for efficiency not sound. I mean i've got turbo xs H34 bov, Full 3" turbo back w/ no emmisions, tubular manifold, tial 40mm wategate. The sound just grows on you and u learn to tune it out. If your really worried about noise just dynomat the entire car.

DSMNightmare said:

I think the wheel lift Marco is referring to is when under hard cornering.

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Yes, I know this.

I still think it is a marketing ploy. Otherwise no one would buy Quaifes.

For cornering that hard, buy an FD3S

!^3 said:

Yes, I know this.

I still think it is a marketing ploy. Otherwise no one would buy Quaifes.

For cornering that hard, buy an FD3S

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Touche. I think both diffs are so closely matched it's like debating (dare I say) camaro vs trans am. You are going to find lovers and haters of either one.

DSMNightmare said:

Touche. I think both diffs are so closely matched it's like debating (dare I say) camaro vs trans am. You are going to find lovers and haters of either one.

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I would agree...however I think it is retarded to market the Kaaz over the Quaife because of wheel lift to normal people. Maybe if people are doing some serious high speed road course racing or something then it makes sense, but Magnus has a conflict of interest here because they are a Kaaz dealer and not a Quaife dealer, no? I am sure if they were a Quaife dealer they could equally as easily talk down the Kaaz.

!^3 said:

I would agree...however I think it is retarded to market the Kaaz over the Quaife because of wheel lift to normal people. Maybe if people are doing some serious high speed road course racing or something then it makes sense, but Magnus has a conflict of interest here because they are a Kaaz dealer and not a Quaife dealer, no? I am sure if they were a Quaife dealer they could equally as easily talk down the Kaaz.

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I totally agree with this. If you think about it, it takes some extreme cornering on race tires to lift the front wheel of a FWD car. Wheel lift won't happen with street tires unless the corner is littered with stutter bumps. Even then you have more to worry about than getting power to the wheels, you should be worried about the bumps pushing the car to the outside.

I did a quick search on this forum and found that 48 people have a Quaife in their mods list. 6 members have a Kaaz, 6 others have a "Kazz" and one has a "Kaz". So I think getting opinions from Kaaz owners will be rare.
Clipse T96, let us know how it goes with the Kaaz.

Kaaz diffs are reletively new to the DSM world. I've been doing this for about four years now and every time you ask about a diff you would hear Quaiffe as the only option. I really did not hear about Kaaz picking up popularity until the last year. When they refer to wheel lift I think they are talking more about the power lost under weight transfer rather than the wheels actually coming off the ground. To say that you found 48 vs 6 is unfair because Quaiffe has been around the DSM scene a lot longer. My question to you pneumo is how can you give an unbiased opinion of these diffs when you have never used the Kaaz and don't have a FWD? As far as conflict of interest you could say the same about Shephard if you wanted to. Both guys are dealers of the opposite sides of the coin so they are going to be biased. If the kaaz diff was such a bad diff for cornering then I seriosly doubt it would be the diff of choice for road racing by so many professional teams.

DSMNightmare said:

When they refer to wheel lift I think they are talking more about the power lost under weight transfer rather than the wheels actually coming off the ground.

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For the Quaife to behave like an open diff actually does require one wheel to completely come up off the ground. Weight transfer won't do it alone.

DSMNightmare said:

To say that you found 48 vs 6 is unfair because Quaiffe (sic) has been around the DSM scene a lot longer.

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For you to misquote me is also unfair. Again, I said I found 6 Kaaz owners who knew how to spell, 6 other Kaaz owners who spelled it "Kazz" and one additional member who spelled it "Kaz" That adds up to 13 members. Plus I wasn't saying "get the Quaife because more people have it" My point is, we are looking for opinions from actual Kaaz owners, and Kaaz owners are rare, so it may be hard to find someone with actual experience with a Kaaz.

DSMNightmare said:

My question to you pneumo is how can you give an unbiased opinion of these diffs when you have never used the Kaaz and don't have a FWD?

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I have a FWD DSM. It's a 90 Laser. It was my first DSM, I raced it with the stock diff and a Quaife. I have tested it extensively, so I'm very familiar with how well it works in a variety of conditions, including drag racing and hard cornering on street tires. I have never owned or tried a Kaaz.

DSMNightmare said:

]If the kaaz diff was such a bad diff for cornering then I seriosly doubt it would be the diff of choice for road racing by so many professional teams.

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No one said the Kaaz was bad for cornering. In fact, Marco from Magnus Motorsports is the one who said that the Quaife was bad in corners where the driven wheel might lift off the ground because then the Quaife looses it's LSD effect and works like an open diff. The Kaaz is rumored to keep the two drive wheels locked together even if one drive wheel comes off the ground.

No one said the Kaaz was bad for cornering. In fact, Marco from Magnus Motorsports is the one who said that the Quaife was bad in corners where the driven wheel might lift off the ground because then the Quaife looses it's LSD effect and works like an open diff. The Kaaz is rumored to keep the two drive wheels locked together even if one drive wheel comes off the ground.

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This was my entire point. This is the whole point of the kaaz is to not only do this when the wheels come off the ground but under heavy weight transfer as well. This argument is going nowhere because we both keep reiterating our opinions and experiences with the opposite diff. The only way your going to get a proper answer to this question is by having someone post who has had BOTH diffs on the same car. Otherwise it's just two biased opinions bitching at each other.

Is there no one in this whole cavernous members list that has driven both a Quaife and a KAAZ in a FWD DSM? All you tuners and not a single person can claim an unbiased opinion? Without any real evidence, I am still personally liking the KAAZ, and I see the poll is as well. Viva la KAAZ!

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm

I think I only saw links for info on the KAAZ LSD.
Here's a link for the Quaife LSD.
Looks like the poll is undecided as well.

99gst_racer said:

Fro what Shep told me, you have to run Kaaz fluid in it to even get the warranty. Also, they require you to do like 6 or 8 heavy figure-eights in a parking lot after installation. This helps "move" the fluid around between the discs. If you dont do this, (like many dont), then yes, it will be very loud. But mostly at parking lot "putting" speeds. Shep's is loud he said. Doesnt sound very streetable, IMO.


BTW, I just got my tranny back from Shep today and it's got my Quaife LSD in her. I'll have it in by Monday, so I'll let you guys know how she feels.

-Paul-

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Dude, it's now Thursday, you said your tranny would be in by Monday.
I'm dying to know what you think, as I'm everyone in this tread is.
I'm looking into getting an LSD, and with my stk GST, I've spun the tires thru
a hard corner and ended up in the wrong lane.
I wonder if the Kaaz would promote that type of effect more so than the Quaiffe.

So what's up...

Strm Trpr said:

Dude, it's now Thursday, you said your tranny would be in by Monday.
I'm dying to know what you think, as I'm everyone in this tread is.
I'm looking into getting an LSD, and with my stk GST, I've spun the tires thru
a hard corner and ended up in the wrong lane.
I wonder if the Kaaz would promote that type of effect more so than the Quaiffe.

So what's up...

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They are both LSDs I seriously doubt either would "promote that type of effect". If you read this forum from top to bottom you can see that whats been said about the Kaaz is that cornering was one of it's strong points. As for the poll, I would not invest too much faith in that considering in order to like something more than another you really need to have tried both.

Strm Trpr said:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm

I think I only saw links for info on the KAAZ LSD.
Here's a link for the Quaife LSD.
Looks like the poll is undecided as well.

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BTW this link you gave is merely a cut and paste straight off off the quaife website.

http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diffs.htm

What a bitchfest.

I have the KAAZ unit (who gives a rats arse how it's spelt) and have been running it for abount 8 months. I have a zexel torsion posi in my firebird (EXACTLY the same design as the quaife). I am impressed with the KAAZ. It does everything I want it too.

The selling point for me was the fact that it doesn't unlock around a corner. The firebird will light both tires up like a posi should when going straight. Although I am able to over power it around a corner and it returns to a peg leg.. NOT what I wanted.

I must admit the required fluid did piss me off... and the 30 min of figure 8's did make me quite dizzy. Even after the break in it clucked around corners at low speeds. After a few hundred miles, it only does it occasionally. You would never know it was there driving around town.

The biggest shock I had, was the fact that torque steer is GONE!!