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2G 4g63 bullet proof block build

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phantomdsm

Probationary Member
2
0
Jan 18, 2023
Syracuse, Utah
Hello friends!

Just blew a hole in the block of my Talon, luckily I have an extra Block that came with the car. I was hoping to get some insight into where to start, I know crank walk is a big deal on these things so while I have this block all apart I wanted to see what people are doing to take care of that along with bulletproofing this block, I'm looking to make a reasonably reliable 400 AWHP out of this build. There may have been a thread already made about a build list and what to do but I couldn't find anything related to what I was going for. Any input on where to start would be highly appreciated! I haven't pulled the head off to see if there was any damage caused by the bottom-end kersploding yet.

Let me know what kind of info you can give me to get me started!

p.s. this thing is an electrical nightmare and I plan to replace the engine and body harness due to the ridiculous crap the previous owner did to this thing

Thank you in advance!

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Crankwalk is extremely, vastly, massively exaggerated by people who blew the engine due to a bad tune, pushed their stock engine way too far, or got a car that wasn't maintained worth a damn, OR was rebuilt without putting proper preload on the thrust bearing like the FSM states. If a block hasn't walked by like 50k miles, it's not going to. If you're building it from the ground up, even if it's not a split-thrust washer 7-bolt, preload the crank properly and you'll be fine. With that out of the way I'll move on.


A stock 6-bolt that's freshly rebuilt with some ARP rod bolts, and a healthy PROPER tune will take 400awhp like a champ, and live a nice long life at that. But tune is pretty much paramount. A bad tune can absolutely obliterate even the best, most "bulletproof" built engine. If you're nervous or sticking with a 7 bolt(they'll take 400hp too, but just for sake of argument stay with me) any quality brand of H-beam rod, and forged piston will take 400hp on a good tune like nothing. Again though, I stress the quality of the tune and not being a retard by turning the boost up to 40lbs when you're not tuned for that much or on something like a 16G where it won't do a single thing but blow hot air.


For 400hp I'd just go with some Manley Rods, Manley 9:1 pistons, make sure the crank is good(get it polished if not). Quality set of King XP bearings(or equal quality brand) for rods and mains. Some ARP headstuds if it's a 7-bolt, Mitsubishi MLS gasket(no copper spray), set the ring gap according to your goals for boost/power levels(you'll have to research this on your own, or talk to your machinist), and go. If you're trying to reach 400whp on a 16G then you've got your work cut out for you. Not impossible, but it's gonna take effort.
 
Thanks for the info, about every person I talked to said these were notorious for crankwalk so I wanted to build against that, but it sounds like that may have been part of a huge over-exaggeration of people not properly building engines which led to crankwalk if I'm reading this correctly. the pan is off of the extra block I have so I'm not sure if its a 6 bolt or 7 bolt just yet. pretty sure its a 6 bolt though, which is supposed to be the better block correct? @CrackedDSM
 
How many holes in the crank flange for the flywheel? Count them and you will know which motor you have (7 holes-7 bolt 6 holes-6 bolt).
 
Thanks for the info, about every person I talked to said these were notorious for crankwalk so I wanted to build against that, but it sounds like that may have been part of a huge over-exaggeration of people not properly building engines which led to crankwalk if I'm reading this correctly. the pan is off of the extra block I have so I'm not sure if its a 6 bolt or 7 bolt just yet. pretty sure its a 6 bolt though, which is supposed to be the better block correct? @CrackedDSM
Sounds like you need to talk to people who know these cars better :p
 
A properly done stock rebuild (of course with proper tuning) would meet your needs, however going with something like the combo @CrackedDSM mentioned to have some margin for error and a little more compression and room to grow is never a bad thing. Many off the shelf h beam rods and off the shelf common pistons will hold up to what 75% of us would ever do with it, keeping it together is going to be more in the quality of work and proper tuning opposed to buying the strongest parts out there, remember everything has its place. If you damage a Manley H beam rod at 400 horsepower you’re doing something wrong and would damage a rod rated for 1000 in the same way. Best advice I can give is don’t cut corners, it’s almost on a weekly basis someone is upset they blew something apart throwing a bunch of power at it taking a bunch of short cuts, not covering basics, and using a bunch of junk parts.
 
Crankwalk is extremely, vastly, massively exaggerated by people who blew the engine due to a bad tune, pushed their stock engine way too far, or got a car that wasn't maintained worth a damn, OR was rebuilt without putting proper preload on the thrust bearing like the FSM states. If a block hasn't walked by like 50k miles, it's not going to. If you're building it from the ground up, even if it's not a split-thrust washer 7-bolt, preload the crank properly and you'll be fine. With that out of the way I'll move on.


A stock 6-bolt that's freshly rebuilt with some ARP rod bolts, and a healthy PROPER tune will take 400awhp like a champ, and live a nice long life at that. But tune is pretty much paramount. A bad tune can absolutely obliterate even the best, most "bulletproof" built engine. If you're nervous or sticking with a 7 bolt(they'll take 400hp too, but just for sake of argument stay with me) any quality brand of H-beam rod, and forged piston will take 400hp on a good tune like nothing. Again though, I stress the quality of the tune and not being a retard by turning the boost up to 40lbs when you're not tuned for that much or on something like a 16G where it won't do a single thing but blow hot air.


For 400hp I'd just go with some Manley Rods, Manley 9:1 pistons, make sure the crank is good(get it polished if not). Quality set of King XP bearings(or equal quality brand) for rods and mains. Some ARP headstuds if it's a 7-bolt, Mitsubishi MLS gasket(no copper spray), set the ring gap according to your goals for boost/power levels(you'll have to research this on your own, or talk to your machinist), and go. If you're trying to reach 400whp on a 16G then you've got your work cut out for you. Not impossible, but it's gonna take effort.
Crankwalk is real and not over exaggerated. This is real world experience. I have personally had my hands on no less than 20 7 bolts that have walked. From fresh rebuilds that walk on first start up, to 1xx,xxx mile engines.

So, buyer beware. 7 bolts are TRULY the devil. This is coming from someone who has built 280 fresh 4g63’s and 24 years of servicing hundreds more.
 
Everytime I’m tagged I’m like oh boy, finna get called out what did I do or say wrong this time.

FB culture has ruined me. :p
@CrackedDSM You are being WARNED....NO FB TALK! NO MENTIONING OF IT EVEN!
EVER.......
Ok, do you feel better??? ROFL
Continue on fellows ;)
 
The rate things are going with our glorified 90s shitboxes 6 bolts will be damn near extinct and worth their weight in gold. Plenty of reputable shops have built a lot of 7 bolts that did just as they were built to do trouble free. Im no master engine builder, I don’t claim to be an expert tuner, but in the 17 years of playing with these things in an area that’s likely to have one of the highest numbers of dsm’s running around on a regular basis due to the history here, I’ve never seen anything that would scare me away from a properly built 7 bolt, but again i’m also just some guy on the internet with an opinion.
 
I've had personal experience with verified crankwalk on an automatic 6 bolt too.


It's BS.
Nope. I have seen two six bolts walk. Both were starved of oil however and had other damage.

The DSM 7 bolt is just terrible.

With that said, I have seen numerous small block chevy’s do it, Toyota 2jz’s do it, the same Honda H23 do it twice(very high mileage car), a Pontiac 301. I have been around a lot of engines in 24 years of racing and building. If it has a thrust bearing, it can walk. For whatever reason, the DSM 7 bolt is dog shit.

Funny enough, I have yet to see an Evo 4-9 engine walk. As we know those are different however. Hence the Evolution name.
 
Having built well over 100 4g’s myself I’ll say that close to half of the 95-97.5 7 bolts I’ve taken apart had visible thrust bearing wear. In all my years I’ve seen 2 crankwalked 6 bolts.


Not to mention we trapped 179 mph in the 1/4 with a stock 6 bolt block and crank.
 
The rate things are going with our glorified 90s shitboxes 6 bolts will be damn near extinct and worth their weight in gold. Plenty of reputable shops have built a lot of 7 bolts that did just as they were built to do trouble free. Im no master engine builder, I don’t claim to be an expert tuner, but in the 17 years of playing with these things in an area that’s likely to have one of the highest numbers of dsm’s running around on a regular basis due to the history here, I’ve never seen anything that would scare me away from a properly built 7 bolt, but again i’m also just some guy on the internet with an opinion.


Agreed. It comes from the elitest old school DSM mentality that "herp derp 7 bolt = evil" completely ignoring that there were a LOT more 7 bolt engines produced than 6 bolt engines.

Also: I love the ignore function on this forum.
 
Agreed. It comes from the elitest old school DSM mentality that "herp derp 7 bolt = evil" completely ignoring that there were a LOT more 7 bolt engines produced than 6 bolt engines.

Also: I love the ignore function on this forum.
It comes down to money. We could build 1300+hp blocks for around $1500 our cost in parts, with my free labor.

With a 7-bolt the block itself is a little stronger, but you need an aftermarket crank and another machine operation to tap the block for larger head studs.

Not to mention you get a 1g head when you buy 6 bolt cores. Our fastest passes ever were with a bone stock casting, unported 6 bolt head with springs and cams.
 
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