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2G Had ngk 9es’s and stuttering

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Turbolence56

Proven Member
68
7
Jul 14, 2021
North_Carolina
Quick question regarding plugs

had some stuttering around 3-4K in 4th and 5th gear on freeway driving like car was being held back.
Problem was originally spark plug wires wasn’t seated well in the spark plug hole causing p0303 misfire. I reseated the wire cleared the code and checked all the wires which looked good. No arcing noted but car still hesitated in the 3-4K rpm range in higher gears. Pulled well to redline in first though.
So I decided to change my spark plugs as it is cheap. I bought ngk bpr6es as they were recommended on this board and local.my question this.

I have seen a lot of people run colder plugs, when I went to install me new plugs my car had NGK 9es’s

my car is far from stock.
For arguments sake. 1000cc injectors, ecm link, all bolt on’s, front mount intercooler, fp dp, fp manifold, fp hta68 turbo up grade with internal gate at 15 psi, walbro 225 fuel pump. Etc

had bpr 9es’s
Putting in bpr 6es’s gapped at .028

am I going to be screwed and cars going to run like ass? Cause 9es are really cold. And 6es are oem. Should I gap them smaller if I experience ignition break up, up top.

man I going to start knocking or detonating since these aren’t as cold? Don’t want to blow up the motor.
 
It has always idled well actually right at the target 1000rpms.
Can you go lower than 1000rpm? What is the reason to set it at 1000rpm, do you have very aggressive cams?
I would start from rebuilding or replacing that throttle body before starting to tune more. I believe that throttle body is not adjusting the air correctly at idle and having vacuum/boost leak. You even don't have the stop screw on it.
 
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It is set at 1000 rpm in link currently, old owner and/ or tuner set it that way. I can drop the idle in link to target 900-850-750 or any of those ranges. I was planning on adjusting the 2g tps manually to 0.63 in link with car off. Currently it’s at 0.59 with key in on position in link. Tps setting is -6 and 104% at the moment.

As for the throttle body. There is a biss screw in that hole. It is turned really far in. Was going to adjust the tps manually and then the Biss screw to lower the idle in link using the grounded diagnostic check box. To target idle at 750.

As for the stopper screw I see what you mean now I don’t see one. Will look closer tomorrow though. I believe it’s a 1g throttle body, it could very well be causing vacuum/ boost leaks. Hence the idle at 1000 to keep it from dying stalling out at idle maybe? 🤔
I’m down to rebuild it or get a new one. Probably getting a known good one would be the better option. Again haven’t done anything to this car except what was mentioned up top want to get it running right as much as possible..

Thanks for the reply’s and suggestions though will def look into doing those things.
 
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I can drop the idle in link to target 900-850-750 or any of those ranges.
What I meant is if you can actually make the idle lower rpm than 1000rpm or not. And what I was saying is if the throttle body or somewhere has vacuum/boost leak, even you tune it for now you would probably have to re-do. That's why I suggested to inspect and rebuild the throttle body before doing more thing by ECMLink to save some time in the future.
As for the stopper screw I believe the throttle body is a 1g. With a 2g tps.
1g and 2g throttle body both have it. On a 1g throttle body it's where the green circle is in the pic below. The part looks broken though.
You are running a MAF sensor, vacuum/boost leak is very critical and may cause more noticeable issues than when you are running SD.
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I see what you mean. Yeah I’m thinking I’m having boost leaks at the throttle body or some place else. I don’t have an air compressor to pressurize the pipes and motor through a BLT atm.

Your right about being in MAF and it causing more running problems then on SD. Not my first turbo car so I know a bit about Maf’s. I would not be surprised if I have boost leaks at the tb. Car has seen a few hands before me. Will boost leak test and see what I find before touching anything on tuning. Need to get a compressor or borrow one first though.
 
Since the IPS mount point is broken I'm wondering what's acting as the throttle stop? Maybe that's why the cable is tight so the butterfly won't close and bite into the throttle bore.

WRT the wideband setup, if you look at the targetAFR you'll see what the ECU is trying to do, and that is way off for the conditions, what the actual AFR is could be better or worse but doesn't really matter until what the ECU is trying to do isn't stupid.

So I'd first reset the Openloop Thresholds, see if that fixes the breakup. Once that's resolved then start looking for a good Throttle Body and gaskets.
 
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Will try resting the thresholds to stock tomorrow and report back.

The car ran ok-ish when I first got it didn’t have any stuttering, ignition break up or feelings of being held back on the freeway or cruising in those higher gears under load before.

It happens one day out of the blue really and has gotten progressively worse.

Now I don’t know if that IPS mount was broken before or after I bought it, or just recently and is causing my issues. When the throttle is fully closed and I open the butterfly by hand it feels like it gets stuck a tad. This is why the screw needs to be on there I understand.

Anyways will try and rest those parameters and see if I can fix the issues for the time being.

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and help!
 
As some have already stated about the throttle body. That needs to be fixed. Boost leak checks need to be performed. And I would recommend BR7ES's on the plugs unless you only plan on running 15psi, but why if it's modified?

I have a feeling you have a lot going on with the tune but I'd have to check the logs later.

Personally, I would recommend getting someone to remote tune it (I quit doing it) who can get it setup. In one of the tuning pages on here I have a post with lots of videos to try and help educate people on tuning ecmlink. Would watch them all before screwing with it yourself. And if your wideband isn't working correctly, I would get that fixed before doing anything else, if not completely replacing it. Don't touch ecmlink if that's not working.

Sounds like you have some mechanical issues that need to be squared away before posting up results though. Good luck!
 
Yeah v8-are-slow the settings on ecm link are not mine. I also think there is mechanical issues and not necessarily tuning issues. Well more like mechanical issues are causing the logs to be off or weird in ecmlink.

I do currently drive this car several times a week. (Work 12hr shifts at hospital). So I can’t have it down for long periods waiting for parts. But would like to see if I can source a used or new throttle body and boost leak test the system before committing to tuning anything.

I think you and a bunch on here are right on with the TB issues, and overall mechanical issues causing bad or off data logs.

Any recommendations for tb’s? Keep to the 1g’s, s90 ( read they aren’t greaattt), RMR? I would like to just swap it out vs rebuilding my current one as it’s Broken anyways.

Will post back when I have some more updates.
 
Suggestions on the throttle body? Either send it out to be rebuilt or just find a used one. Wouldn't do it yourself. That one has too many issues and you won't know where throttle stop needs to be. Getting a used one for now would be the easiest step, but the shaft seals could still be old and need replacing.
 
Haven’t had a chance to really look into it atm. But maybe this new thing might lead you to some other conclusions.

I removed my boost gauge (previous owner hack job) pro sport model. I reinstalled it 2 days ago and now my boost is uncontrolled and I’m boosting well over 20-25psi. Hit fuel cut I believe in first. The boost selonoid was already hooked up and I just reconnected the wires and installed the gauge.

I noticed an exhaust leak at my down pipe connection off the turbo (mid pipe flange) it melted my radiator fan, car doesn’t over heat. Have other fan that is on and car is running fine in the coolant department.

But it might have put a hole in the line going to my wastegate from heat I have to inspect it. Could be Causing the waste gate to stay closed now? Maybe?

Is there any way for me to bypass the boost controler and just use wastegate pressure?. Before this car stayed at 15psi. it is internally gated from fp hta68. Anyway to tell the spring rate or psi rate?

Could be a reason why I’m having issues 🤷‍♂️ I’m trying to fix all I can mechanically before I touch the tune just in case it’s something mechanical causing my issues

I’m presently looking for a used 1g fully functioning tb
Going to replace, clamp, and inspect lines going to the waste gate, boost controller, and see if any hoses melted.
Boost leak the system.
Replace all ignition componets.

Could it be the power transistor? I would hate to replace coils if it’s a bad power transistor

I know I have a lot of issues with this car so I’m working them out one by one.

Should I still do the threshold rest in ecm link though?
Or fix the tb / boost spikes wasteget issues first. Seems like over boosting is a priority number one right now. Never had spikes before so I’m wondering if it’s messing up the ecm link logs I posted before…..

Damn this post is long sorry. For the record car ran pretty well before all these issues started to creep up. Car is in rough shape right now with little nagging issues. Don’t really no what is the most important or were to start things….
 
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I wouldn't be going into boost at ALL until you know your true wideband readings and have the mechanical issues fixed. The fuel cut you think you could be having could just be a lean condition and things can go bad pretty quickly. You have too many mechanical issues right now to be testing your luck going into that much boost.

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Correct. I’m babying right now. No boost. Fixing things one at a time. I will be picking up some used parts for all my issues hopefully here next week from a local dsm. I’m not pushing my luck.
 
As for my wideband it is plumbed into the test pipe, and wires to my aem uego it powers one and then reads 14.8. It’s cycles and just stays at 14.8. In link I noticed that it was locked out. It is connected though will look if something can loose. Or it isn’t connected to the gauge. All the wires are plugged in correctly into the back of the gauge though. Have to see if the wideband O2 sensor is connected at the plug /harness.

I researched that it could be a plug wire not properly connected. It goes through the open sequence though just never reads anything just 14.8. Any suggestions?
 
Which AEM UEGO is it? The old ones are junk to use with ecmlink. The only ones I'd use with ecmlink that are AEM is the analog or the X-Series.
 
I believe I have the aem uego digital one unfortunately, came with the car. How come it doesn’t work well with link? I should still be able to get correct readings though right. Other dsm users have this gauge.
 
And almost all of those people have problems with them too. I started charging more to tune anyone's car that had it.

Trying to get the readings in ecmlink to match the gauge with that particular model is more of a pain than it's worth. And everyone who had it just swore by it and wanted to keep it, while I had to deal with the aggravation. So I finally just quit tuning folks that had it unless they could get me video proof and a log with it showing that it matched at idle and wot (and the numbers never did).

When people would throw it in the garbage and go with something like an Innovate or PLX, they figured out what I was talking about. I currently have an X-Series in my car now and I'm honestly not even all that impressed with it. I still have to calibrate the dang thing and the sensors are WAAAAY too delicate for my taste.
 
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I see, interesting, might look into another one then. Any suggestions? Do all wideband O2 sensors need calibration? If so to what specifically are we calibrating to frequency? Lean / rich numbers in link? Also any thing different with innovate or plx?
 
I always recommend the x series model from aem. The issue with the older ones were the were the inconsistent voltage output. As for needing calibration when you buy them new they come pre calibrated. You can free air calibrate if need be. Also while scrolling through this post i noticed that you don't have a gauge on your FPR. Do you know your current base pressure?
 
A few off the top of my head here.

AEM analog usually requires no calibration of the sensor or in ecmlink. Just wire in and select the correct wideband in Ecmlink and go.

AEM X-Series, no free air calibration required, but you can. Calibration in ecmlink may or may not be required. It was needed for me.

PLX, no free air calibration. No ecmlink calibration.

Innovate, they all usually require free air calibration of the sensor. Nothing required in ecmlink other than just selecting LC1 as the wideband used for any of the Innovate versions. The MTXL is a very easy one to use. DB Blue, Green, or Red are a pain to install as far as the wiring is concerned.

Glowshift, don't even waste your time.

Autometer, no free air calibration of the sensor. Not sure about ecmlink calibration being needed.

There are others out there but don't wanna speak about the ones I have no personal experience with them.
 
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So looking at any log that's wot is totally useless for anyone here, There's no wideband information so we can't tell where the fuel is or should be. Only logs "currently" that we can use is anything at idle or cruise where it's in closedloop operation. If it's not in closedloop, it's useless information to be looking at.

As for the Direct Access tables, I would put the ones circled back to stock. Not much of an adjustment being made to them anyway so no point confusing yourself with adjustments all over the place that aren't making much of a difference anyway.
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Assuming you're using E85 fuel otherwise the fuel tables look a bit lean, and timing possibly too high. And if it's not dialed in at wot (which you don't know), you could be running even leaner.

For closedloop, you can make adjustments to idle and cruise still (when boost leaks, etc are repaired anyway). On this screen, you might have to pull down the 0 and 50 Hz sliders to bring the airflowperrev down and lean out the mixture so the trims aren't so rich.
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Similar to this....
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I skimmed, so sorry if it was mentioned but the throttle stop sensor is physically important. It cracks the throttle open 15/16 turn.

I tuned a car once without this done and about pulled all my hair out making it behave. Having the closed sensor cracking the plate was like flipping a light switch in a dark room.

The ear is cracked off your sensor hole, so be super diy or jump ship to another tb.
 
At v8…. Thank you for the help with the data logs and stuff I will look into resetting those tabs to stock in link. Maybe that will fix some of the issues.

As for fuel on 93 pump, no e85.

Still feel like a lot of the issues are mechanical though. But if you guys who are much more knowledgeable then me, think that resetting some of these fuel trims and retuning things to stock (open loop threshold) will or could possibly fix some drivability issues I’m all ears. Car runs like hot garbage right now, vibrates the entire car when cruising. I can feel it in my seat on the steering wheel, rattles the windows, quite annoying.

At stapl3

Yeah not sure what happens to the ear on the back of the TB for the throttle stop sensor it’s obviously not there. It looks like it was jb welded on at one point and broke of as I can see some grey colored jb weld looking stuff (ghetto).

Could be affecting my entire tune.

Plan is to get a used 1g tb and some new gaskets (crossing fingers that seals are good) and swap it out. Is there a wire that needs to get connected to that throttle stop sensor? Should I be looking for it around that area?

Thanks for the help everyon this forum is very willing to help I. Like that. Again thank you guys.
 
Updates:

So I figured out why my car has been vibrating so much….. thought it was ignition break up and stuff. Could still be that but won’t know until I fix this issue.

So the vibrations have progressively gotten worse over the last several days. And today on the way back home I heard some noises coming from the drivers side wheel well. ( most of the vibrations were on this side. Limped it home, and jacked up the front of the car.

Low and behold the half shaft axle is missing it’s inner cv boot as it’s obliterated. and the axle is wide open and I assume it lost all the balls in the race. Will post picture of the carnage in a minute.

How much is an axle and I looked at the other side inner cv boot is ripped up as well so probably going to replace both axles.

Can I get one local at parts stores or am I out of luck.

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