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Rod suggestions for build

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brettsvn

15+ Year Contributor
33
11
May 22, 2008
Victorville, California
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I’m having a hard time searching here. I know I’ve came across threads on piston and rod setups but the search engine is weird on my phone or something. With that being said, I was going to ask opinion on weather or not the Manley I beams for the 6 bolt with 22mm pins are any good or if I should be going with the lighter turbo tuff H beams? I don’t want the rods to be a limiting factor on any future power goals and I didn’t know if the acceleration is hurt with the weight differential. The motor is 6 bolt bottom with fully built 2G top (272 cam).
 
What are your goals for the car? If you want a high revving car, then lighter rods i feel like would be better. But if you're wanting more power over revs, then the I beams.
Ultimately if you have the money to spend the I beams will be better as long as youre not revving it out to like 10k.

I also dont think that Manley makes Turbo Tuff H beams for the 6 bolt crank. not from what ive found.
 
Manley's only "turbo tuff" rods are their I beams. I run Manley H beams on Manley 9:1's and am very happy with them. They will rev too.
I have a set of I beams but I weighed them and boy, those rods are heavy. If I wanted a big rod, high rev motor, I would go with aluminum rods.
 
Manley's only "turbo tuff" rods are their I beams. I run Manley H beams on Manley 9:1's and am very happy with them. They will rev too.
I have a set of I beams but I weighed them and boy, those rods are heavy. If I wanted a big rod, high rev motor, I would go with aluminum rods.
Whoops, i confused "turbo tuff" and "H-tuff"
I also wanted to add too, that I beams will rev too, it just creates more stress on the pins and bearings since the weight difference.

Hows that setup going for you? what kind of power are you pushing?
I picked up a set of Manley 9:1 Platinum 85mm Pistons, and their 22mm wrist pin 6 bolt hybrid rods for those pistons.
 
What are the power goals? What turbo are you using? What kind of rpm are you wanting to run? What valve train components are you using in the cylinder head with the 272 cams?
 
She runs out to 9200, pulls like a freight train but I have never been close to a dyno. I will say an easy 500WHP+
She hasn't' found anything that will take her "yet", but the biker boys like to play so when they bring out their 1000cc+ bikes, I "usually" am about a car length behind, but the 900cc bikes....hahahah I walk away from. :D
In Mexico, of course.
 
She runs out to 9200, pulls like a freight train but I have never been close to a dyno. I will say an easy 500WHP+
She hasn't' found anything that will take her "yet", but the biker boys like to play so when they bring out their 1000cc+ bikes, I "usually" am about a car length behind, but the 900cc bikes....hahahah I walk away from. :D
In Mexico, of course.
Sounds like a blast! about what im looking for, for now. Ive got built valvetrain and everything for a full build with some gsc s2's waiting to go in this winter, on an fp red. Gives me something to look forward to.

What turbo are you on again?
 
Holset HX40 with 2150 injectors and a 525 hellcat pump
 
Manley's only "turbo tuff" rods are their I beams. I run Manley H beams on Manley 9:1's and am very happy with them. They will rev too.
I have a set of I beams but I weighed them and boy, those rods are heavy. If I wanted a big rod, high rev motor, I would go with aluminum rods.
How much those rods weigh, Marty? Thought I saw around 625g per rod
 
7something IIRC. I can weigh one again and will. I think my H beams were almost 600 gms.

Here ya go.......
695.5 on Manley Turbo Tuff I Beams
573-575 on Manley H Beams
Marty

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We only use 3 rods. Stock, h-beam, and aluminum. The heavy I beams overlap into aluminum rod territory, and aluminum just does a much better job at the power levels you need it.

I like the h-beams for 400-700, and aluminum for 800+.
 
Everyone has there own choices they prefer. We normally don't use the cheap H beam rods unless cost is a factor. I personally use the pauter X beams. I have also used the manly I beams in the past. They are very strong but i do agree very heavy and if turning some serious rpms aluminum rod is the way to go.
 
There's just no reason to use the heavy I beams. There is no situation where they perform better than either an aluminum rod or steel h-beam. H-beam rods are actually structurally stronger than I-beams.
Traditionally I-beams are used as a lightweight n/a high rev rod, and h-beams more for high torque apps.
This is with hundreds of engines ranging from 400-1,300+ horsepower to draw data from.
 
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I also think the Oliver lightweight I beam could be a interesting option. Haven’t used one yet but on paper looks interesting. The last 6 bolt I built I used Manley H beam 6 bolt rods with 22mm pin with Weisco HD slugs. I never use the non HD Weiscos.
 
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If you're shopping the Manley Turbo Tuffs, consider Howard's billet I-beam rods. They are reportedly made by Carrillo, and Howard's rates them to 1,000 HP. Instead of the 700+ grams on the TTs, my 156mm Howard's rods weigh in at 599g (even less for the 150mm). Here's a set of them on deep discount, but I think they're 7 bolt: https://www.competitionproducts.com...-of-4/productinfo/HRCPR59001771/#.YRFSaDNrkwA

The 1000hp rating on their Ultimate Duty I beams, those rods are 653g, FYI. The rest of their lineup comes in at either 594g or 607g.
 
My car has the Ultimate Howards in it. Been running them for 5 years. I am not sure they make them anymore but they are an awesome rod. My other favorite rod to run are Pauters. Eagles I ran them till 710whp and they held up fine for about 2 years before I upgraded them.
 
We only use 3 rods. Stock, h-beam, and aluminum. The heavy I beams overlap into aluminum rod territory, and aluminum just does a much better job at the power levels you need it.

I like the h-beams for 400-700, and aluminum for 800+.
Are you saying you would recommend regular steel H beams for up to 700whp?

I'm building my 6 bolt and have regular steel H beams with 22mm pins, but I've been told that they probably won't handle my end goal of around 700-800 wheel area. I understand rods are more measured in torque but I'm not sure what the average torque is around that area.

I thought about moving to Manley I beams, but they're unreasonably heavy. I don't plan on revving to the moon or anything but a healthy 8500 or so.

The thought of aluminum rod crossed my mind but I'm worried about longevity as I want to drive my car most days of the week (assuming it stays running)
 
The aluminum rods on the market are all high quality and have great longevity. Heck, my 2.3L 7 bolt is apart right now but was a running motor from 2008 to 2020, 3x,000 miles, couple hundred dyno pulls, and a metric ton of track passes. I never changed rod or main bearings, retorqued rod bolts or any of that stuff. I would do an oil change every couple thousand miles of street time or for race/dyno events with quality oil, and I have a large oil cooler on the car too. I let the motor warm up before beating on it and I typically shift to neutral at the top end of a pull instead of engine braking. The bearings were ready for replacement for the mains, the thrust washers looked brand new, and the rod bearings look literally good enough to reuse. Only reason I took it apart was to deck the block and head and will hone the cylinders, new rings, new main bearings and polish the crank. Then I'm slapping the same rods and pistons back into the motor and running the jam maker again.

If you want to read further on the specific details of the motor, it is in my profile, along with on my website, https://www.tmzperformance.com/racecar/
,and if you do a user search here for "Groden" with my user name, you will find plenty of good threads.
 
The aluminum rods on the market are all high quality and have great longevity. Heck, my 2.3L 7 bolt is apart right now but was a running motor from 2008 to 2020, 3x,000 miles, couple hundred dyno pulls, and a metric ton of track passes. I never changed rod or main bearings, retorqued rod bolts or any of that stuff. I would do an oil change every couple thousand miles of street time or for race/dyno events with quality oil, and I have a large oil cooler on the car too. I let the motor warm up before beating on it and I typically shift to neutral at the top end of a pull instead of engine braking. The bearings were ready for replacement for the mains, the thrust washers looked brand new, and the rod bearings look literally good enough to reuse. Only reason I took it apart was to deck the block and head and will hone the cylinders, new rings, new main bearings and polish the crank. Then I'm slapping the same rods and pistons back into the motor and running the jam maker again.

If you want to read further on the specific details of the motor, it is in my profile, along with on my website, https://www.tmzperformance.com/racecar/
,and if you do a user search here for "Groden" with my user name, you will find plenty of good threads.
Thanks for all the info. You run the Groden rods? I've got a 6 bolt and I've found the R&R, Vader, but no GRP rods for the 6bolt only the 7bolt.
You would feel confident saying that aluminum rods would fit the bill?
Driven 4-5 days a week ( just back and forth to work)
Occasional Track
Some fun on the weekends?
I know they support the end goal power i want, as well as the RPM too.
 
They should handle everything you want to do, I would suggest a good sized oil cooler.

My Groden rods were made in 2006 if I recall, the current R&R and FFWD Vader rods are both excellent options.
 
The aluminum rods on the market are all high quality and have great longevity. Heck, my 2.3L 7 bolt is apart right now but was a running motor from 2008 to 2020, 3x,000 miles, couple hundred dyno pulls, and a metric ton of track passes. I never changed rod or main bearings, retorqued rod bolts or any of that stuff. I would do an oil change every couple thousand miles of street time or for race/dyno events with quality oil, and I have a large oil cooler on the car too. I let the motor warm up before beating on it and I typically shift to neutral at the top end of a pull instead of engine braking. The bearings were ready for replacement for the mains, the thrust washers looked brand new, and the rod bearings look literally good enough to reuse. Only reason I took it apart was to deck the block and head and will hone the cylinders, new rings, new main bearings and polish the crank. Then I'm slapping the same rods and pistons back into the motor and running the jam maker again.

If you want to read further on the specific details of the motor, it is in my profile, along with on my website, https://www.tmzperformance.com/racecar/
,and if you do a user search here for "Groden" with my user name, you will find plenty of good threads.

Hey Tim, are you using a flex-hone just to touch up? Using a torque plate as well? Or what are you doing on that exactly if you don't mind me asking? Mine is about to come out to freshen up as well and wondering what I can get by with. Are you reusing the rod bolts? And are you torqueing them or using a rod bolt stretch gauge? Thanks!
 
Hey Tim, are you using a flex-hone just to touch up? Using a torque plate as well? Or what are you doing on that exactly if you don't mind me asking? Mine is about to come out to freshen up as well and wondering what I can get by with. Are you reusing the rod bolts? And are you torqueing them or using a rod bolt stretch gauge? Thanks!
I am going to have the machine shop check for cylinder shape first and will have them hone it on the machine. I'm sure you could get away with a flex hone. Yeah, I'm reusing the bolts and I do have rod bolt stretch gauges to check while I am assembling. I have a 3/8" extended head Proto 5112 torque adapter for tightening the rod bolts, which fits my Groden rods and my R&R rods.
 
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