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2G 2G Spyder AWD swap

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brettsvn

15+ Year Contributor
33
11
May 22, 2008
Victorville, California
So I’ve decided to take on the Spyder AWD swap and have read a bunch of swaps and started thinking to myself, “there must be a better way to deal with the subframe studs that need to be swapped in order to make the subframes bolt up’”. Every thread that I’ve seen cuts into the frame to add the factory GSX subframe bolts. I didn’t really want to cut into the frame unless absolutely necessary so my question is, why hasn’t there ever been a custom bushing made that has a threaded ID that reaches up to the shorter factory bolts? I know it must be possible so I ended up writing Volk to ask them if they can fab something up. They almost already make it with their solid subframe bushings it would just have to be threaded with a hex to tighten on the lower bushing. Figured I’d ask if anyone has ever attempted this or any insight to why it wouldn’t work if so.
 
I have always seen it done the way you have. Myself and a buddy swapped his GST to a awd and did it it that way without issue.
 
So I’ve decided to take on the Spyder AWD swap and have read a bunch of swaps and started thinking to myself, “there must be a better way to deal with the subframe studs that need to be swapped in order to make the subframes bolt up’”. Every thread that I’ve seen cuts into the frame to add the factory GSX subframe bolts. I didn’t really want to cut into the frame unless absolutely necessary so my question is, why hasn’t there ever been a custom bushing made that has a threaded ID that reaches up to the shorter factory bolts? I know it must be possible so I ended up writing Volk to ask them if they can fab something up. They almost already make it with their solid subframe bushings it would just have to be threaded with a hex to tighten on the lower bushing. Figured I’d ask if anyone has ever attempted this or any insight to why it wouldn’t work if so.

The cutting is what’s stopping me from doing the swap on my Spyder... I’m very interested in what you hear back from Volk. I’d much rather spend some money on some additional parts, rather than cutting the x brace and body to gain access to two bolts.
 
The cutting is what’s stopping me from doing the swap on my Spyder... I’m very interested in what you hear back from Volk. I’d much rather spend some money on some additional parts, rather than cutting the x brace and body to gain access to two bolts.
I’ll for sure keep you in the loop if they agree to do so. I’m sure the more people who want them, the more inclined they’d be to make them!
 
I’ll for sure keep you in the loop if they agree to do so. I’m sure the more people who want them, the more inclined they’d be to make them!
If cutting weren't involved, I could see a very significant uptick in the amount of AWD swaps done across the board.. not just for Spyder owners.

... Just saying
 
Yeah, I’ve decided it’s definitely possible so if they aren’t interested in doing it, I’m going to convince one of the guys here at my works machine shop to make me a set to try out. We are aircraft oriented but I’m sure I convince someone to make them. Haha
 
The problem is the support needed at the end of the awd frame which is located way in front compare to the fwd which it will end up at the middle of the awd frame..
If I understand what you’re saying correctly, you’re talking about on the bottom of the subframe? Because all mounts are the same position correct? If they are, my idea should work. It would essentially make the subframe and the frame one piece still providing the needed stretch on the bolt. I just talked to my machine shop guys here at work and said it would be super easy for them to make so I’m going to try it out none the less and see what happens
 
If I understand what you’re saying correctly, you’re talking about on the bottom of the subframe? Because all mounts are the same position correct? If they are, my idea should work. It would essentially make the subframe and the frame one piece still providing the needed stretch on the bolt. I just talked to my machine shop guys here at work and said it would be super easy for them to make so I’m going to try it out none the less and see what happens

The subframe from fwd to awd are completely different. What the post above meant was the awd subframe is longer so the OEM mounting location is neccessary because of the length of the subframe. If you used the forward most mounting points of the fwd subframe you'd probably be in the middle of the awd subframe.

I've done this swap, cutting the x-brace is no big deal, I had my friend tig it back together and it is just as sturdy if not more sturdy then before.
 
For better explanation.

THE BODY FRAME has 3 mounting holes, on each side from factory.

The FWD rear end bolts up from the last 2 holes which they are 12”,14” far from each other (not sure on distance).
The AWD rear end bolts up from the fist and last hole, which they end up being around 20”, 24” far from each other.

So you still have to remove one bolt used on the FWD (second hole location) and that’s why you have to open a hole )first hole location) from the top to drop in the bolt for the AWD.

In a few words, FWD and AWD have different hole bolt patterns, they both will bolt on from the rear mounting location but they have different mount locations at the front end.
Son of a bee sting. I thought the only reason was to drop the longer bolt from the same location. With that being said, it will make it a bit easier but you’d still have to go I. From the top for the FWD location... gotcha! Well... we shall see how it comes out and if I can come up with something for the front. Probably still have to cut in from the top... ‍♂️
 
The subframe from fwd to awd are completely different. What the post above meant was the awd subframe is longer so the OEM mounting location is neccessary because of the length of the subframe. If you used the forward most mounting points of the fwd subframe you'd probably be in the middle of the awd subframe.

I've done this swap, cutting the x-brace is no big deal, I had my friend tig it back together and it is just as sturdy if not more sturdy then before.
Gotcha.. with that being said, is it the same for the front subframe or do those share the same bolt locations?
 
The only way to do it without opening the hole from the inside is, to weld a bolt from the bottom but the head bolt needs to be inserted into the hole so it can be flash at the outside surface where the subframe meats.

No one has done it that way (at least I haven’t heard of), you have to be well on welding to make sure you are doing a well reinforced job.
 
Gotcha.. with that being said, is it the same for the front subframe or do those share the same bolt locations?

The front subframe doesn't need to be changed at all. Im guessing your car is a 2g turbo model, all 2g turbo models share the same front subframe only the rear subframe and drivetrain differ from awd to fwd as well as exhaust systems.
 
The front subframe doesn't need to be changed at all. Im guessing your car is a 2g turbo model, all 2g turbo models share the same front subframe only the rear subframe and drivetrain differ from awd to fwd as well as exhaust systems.
I have a GS spyder it will be going into so non turbo. But reading back on it I can’t find anything on the front subframe... I must be smoking something. I could have swore I saw something about using the back subframe bolts on the front subframe and swapping them but I guess I was wrong about that!
 
I have a GS spyder it will be going into so non turbo. But reading back on it I can’t find anything on the front subframe... I must be smoking something. I could have swore I saw something about using the back subframe bolts on the front subframe and swapping them but I guess I was wrong about that!


I've never heard of someone swapping a non turbo spyder to AWD. I'm not sure any of the write ups on here will be useful in that case. Good luck.
 
If you're thinking about AWD swapping a non-turbo 4G64, save your money. The SOHC 4G64 doesn't produce enough power to make the AWD swap worth it. If anything, you'd probably make the car slower with the loss of HP due to the increased drivetrain load.

Now, if you're planning on turboing the 4G64 and THEN doing the AWD swap, that's another story..
 
If you're thinking about AWD swapping a non-turbo 4G64, save your money. The SOHC 4G64 doesn't produce enough power to make the AWD swap worth it. If anything, you'd probably make the car slower with the loss of HP due to the increased drivetrain load.

Now, if you're planning on turboing the 4G64 and THEN doing the AWD swap, that's another story..
Hahah, oh no, I wouldn’t do that to a stock 4g64. I have my choice of a 6 bolt 4g63, a 7 bolt 4g63 and I’ve been recently debating going with the 4g64 bottom 7 bolt 4g63 head (the head is fully built and just about done with GSC S2, port and polish, bee hives, kiggly HLA, etc etc.). I’m also going the HX40 route so I’m more so worried about everything holding up to the power at this point.
 
If you are planing to go with an HX40, I would suggest to do the 4g64 long rod set up, for a street car it would have a nice spool.
That’s definitely a possibility. I’m just worried about the trans and diff. I know the 2.4 setups are much more torquey and can brake those more easily than the 2.0 setups. I was reading Jacks Transmission thread on the 7 bolt with the big rod setup machined down for tighter tolerance, but started thinking of using those with the 64 crank in the 63 block... idk, I’m going to talk to my machine shop and see which way to go. Or any input from anyone running that setup is welcome too
 
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