Fooxz
Probationary Member
- 12
- 1
- Nov 21, 2009
-
Milwaukee,
Wisconsin
Problem: reverse gear pops out under load. If you baby it and feather the clutch it will reverse SLOWLY on flat land. Attempting to back up an incline of any sort causes the gear to pop out and grind. Stopping and not touching the shifter causes it to go back into reverse following the same symptoms as above.
Apologies upfront for the wall of text, I've tried everything I can find information on and need a sanity check.
My 1991.5 Talon TSi AWD has a W5M332-WQNK. It has had the correct secondary gear swapped (kindly worked on by @twicks69 about two years ago.) to allow it to work with this car's original transfer case and rear. It has been driven for 25K+ miles with all of the forward gears working beautifully. 91 shifter cables, base, shifter bracket and both shift levers are used. The trans came with a shorter shift selector lever which I tried but it makes it nearly impossible to move far enough over to get to 5th/reverse unless you lean your entire body on the shifter.
This was my fathers car but he hasn't had time to work on it so he's made me the new owner.
Reverse originally worked when the trans was first installed. It slowly started having problems where it would pop out but just when backing up a hill until it got as bad as it currently is.
Exhaustive list of things I have tried or checked:
Clutch slave has an extended rod
Clutch fork does not touch bell-housing but it is probably close
There is no clutch drag as far as I can tell
It does not feel like the clutch pedal assembly is worn, but I am pulling it today to make sure, and will repair if needed or might anyways so it's good for the foreseeable future.
I am uncertain if the shift fork and ball were replaced or not. I believe a new ball was installed, but I doubt a new shift fork was used. We likely used whichever "best" one we had at the time.
I know the next step is probably pulling the trans again and replacing the reverse idler gear and 1-2 slider but I am curious if anyone else has any ideas about what actually causes reverse pop out.
Apologies upfront for the wall of text, I've tried everything I can find information on and need a sanity check.
My 1991.5 Talon TSi AWD has a W5M332-WQNK. It has had the correct secondary gear swapped (kindly worked on by @twicks69 about two years ago.) to allow it to work with this car's original transfer case and rear. It has been driven for 25K+ miles with all of the forward gears working beautifully. 91 shifter cables, base, shifter bracket and both shift levers are used. The trans came with a shorter shift selector lever which I tried but it makes it nearly impossible to move far enough over to get to 5th/reverse unless you lean your entire body on the shifter.
This was my fathers car but he hasn't had time to work on it so he's made me the new owner.
Reverse originally worked when the trans was first installed. It slowly started having problems where it would pop out but just when backing up a hill until it got as bad as it currently is.
Exhaustive list of things I have tried or checked:
- Pulled trans and replaced reverse synchro, cone, wave spring, 5th/rev synchro keys and springs, with new end nuts. (Problem almost feels worse now like even less load is needed for pop-out)
- End nuts were not loose and had not moved from their staked locations.
- Reverse idler looks beat up and rounded (likely due to the repeated attempts to use reverse)
- With the trans apart and standing on the bell housing end, the reverse idler gear will fall into place under its own weight with no issues. (obviously this doesn't tell us anything since the idler shaft is not secured and probably moves some to the benefit of engagement.)
- I used a dremel with various stones and sandpaper rolls to detail the leading edge of the idler teeth to make them less round.
- Adjusted both shifter cables in extremes each way in an attempt to rule shifter cables out. They are now adjusted correctly per the manual.
- Tricks such shifting from "X" gear before reverse, pumping clutch, letting clutch out as going into reverse, starting the car in reverse, going into every gear before reverse...
- Adjusting clutch pedal to bring full disengagement further from the floor, as it had been too low per spec from manual.
- Solid shifter bushings on trans side of cables, and on shifter base
- Reverse switch has an aluminum washer and no visible damage from contact with shift rail
- Reverse idler bolt is installed and torqued to spec, with an aluminum washer
- "Restrict Ball Assembly" bolt is installed and torqued to spec, with an aluminum washer
- Interlock plunger is present in the reverse shift lug
- Springs and poppet balls are present and clean for all three rails
Clutch slave has an extended rod
Clutch fork does not touch bell-housing but it is probably close
There is no clutch drag as far as I can tell
It does not feel like the clutch pedal assembly is worn, but I am pulling it today to make sure, and will repair if needed or might anyways so it's good for the foreseeable future.
I am uncertain if the shift fork and ball were replaced or not. I believe a new ball was installed, but I doubt a new shift fork was used. We likely used whichever "best" one we had at the time.
I know the next step is probably pulling the trans again and replacing the reverse idler gear and 1-2 slider but I am curious if anyone else has any ideas about what actually causes reverse pop out.