Alternator relocation and wiring

[barza21]

Hey guys,

Sharing some information in regards to the alternator relocation option for a 1g dsm. I purchased the alternator relocation kit from Jay racing. I opted to go with a saturn alternator as well. The kit for the saturn alternator is slightly different: the adjustment rod is shorter. With that being said, make sure that you purchase the correct alternator. I made the mistake of purchasing an alternator for a 1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC. The problem with this year alternator (1999) is the model: CS121. That model alternator does not have a screw hole that you would use to screw the adjustment rod bolt into. So far, from what I have found (somebody correct me if I am wrong), only the CS130 alternator style is the only one that has that screw hole machined into the housing (therefore I ended up returning CS121 and replacing with CS130 which is from a 1996 year model)

Also, after doing a lot of reading about the wiring involving this mod, I found that a lot of people would have issues with voltage being low after the install. I have completed this modification and would like to share a little bit for information. Currently my idle sits at 700-750 rpm and my volts are between 14.2-14.3 at idle (with headlights on). Once rpm go up, volts go up to ~14.5. I currently have it wired as folows:

F wire = 12v switched power from Cigarette lighter fuse.
L wire = black/white wire from original alternator wiring.
S wire = I haven't connected it, but I wired it into the cabin in case I want to experiment down the line.
Alternator post = 4awg wire to distro bus where old alternator wires used to be.

The "S" wire is the one I had my doubts about. Some people use it and some don't. I opted to string the wire, but will stow it for future use.

One thing that jumped out to me in a lot of the articles that I read is that nobody would mention the grounding of the alternator itself very much. Jay's instructions state to remove some of the material for the bolts that hold the bracket, but I am not sure that is enough (seeing as the alternator body itself doesn't make direct contact with the bracket due to the paint on the bracket). So, what I did was sand (to expose bare metal) the contact point between the block and the bracket, and the bracket and alternator body (on the sides where the long bolt goes through). This ensured that there is a complete path to ground through the body of the alternator. After completing that, I got the results that I listed above.

I hope this helps people that will attempt this mod down the line.

Thanks,

Oscar

P.S.
Remember to disconnect the old alternator wires and cap them away or remove them completely from the car.

 

[godschylde777]

Hi, I just ran into an issue. I have the Jay's alt relocation, but I think I have the wrong kit. I bout It a while ago. I have a Saturn alt, the one you have. I just destroyed the fan fins on it. They hit on the sub-frame. I believe I can remedy the issue by changing belts. What size is the belt you are using? Or is their a way to get rid of the fan?

 

[Planckscale]

I hope this is note off topic, but I thought, I should ask here rather than open a new thread...
If you move the alternator to the back (compressor location), how do you get to it for repair work/replacement?
Because I don't see how you could get to it back there without dropping the engine...

 

[ThunderChild]

I had to take mine out from where the starter is at, which also required the downpipe be removed. It sucks. I took my kit off and put the alt back in the front, much easier to deal with, especially with the cyclone manifold etc.

 

[Vegas Smith]

On my 1g with a 1g intake manifold you can barely finagle it straight up and out of the engine bay. I have done this a couple of times. I just unbolt the PTU, coil and push the wiring harness out of the way.

 

[TSiAWD666]

I hope this is note off topic, but I thought, I should ask here rather than open a new thread...
If you move the alternator to the back (compressor location), how do you get to it for repair work/replacement?
Because I don't see how you could get to it back there without dropping the engine...

If I recall correctly I pulled the half shaft out which is personally think is a bi***. I had the transfer case and downpipe off for other reasons and don't recall if they are necessary to get the half shaft out.

 

[d1prospect]

Loved the relocation idea, until I had to actually change mine. Not worth the hassle unless you absolutely need the space up front. I almost ended up noticing my frame on my 2g to accommodate but that wasn’t right. So I put my alt back up front. My apologies for chiming I’m on your thread.

 

[Macgyver'sDSM]

Removing my throttle body and a section of my intercooler pipe I am able to sneak the alternator under my intake manifold. I would imagine if you have a stock size battery tray that would have to be removed also.

 

[Planckscale]

Boy...there are serious issues with this mod. Sounds like people have been internalizing the pain of doing this mod for too long!
Some have found a way to get to it, but with lots of pain . I think I am going to holdout for now and find away to funnel cool air in there instead. I already got the exhaust manifold, use a non-stainless o2 housing, and Wrap the down pipe and o2 housing. But it is still hot ...I need to do more.

 

[llxkevinxll]

Throwing in my two cents for anyone considering this swap...

1. The Jay racing kit comes with a bracket to move the ps pump to the outer portion of the pulley. Don't use this. Leave the ps pump in the factory location and instead wrap a 315mm belt around the crank and water pump. No tensioner obviously so it will be tight but allowing the ps pump belt to wrap 180 degrees around the pulley helps with throwing belts. Which mine did frequently before moving it back to factory mounting.

2. The 'S' wire mentioned in the first post is the alternator "sense" wire. Without it, it does not know how much or how little to charge. Attach this to your battery positive terminal. This allows the alternator to 'sense' the system load. When fans come on and you turn the radio on, the voltage at the battery will droop some, the alternator sees that and supplies more current to compensate.

 

[diambo4life]

This is from my post on the .ORG about my install in the VR4 which is probably a little tighter than a 1G. If you are lazy, read below.

For the record, the Jay kit works ok but the spacer for offsetting the alternator was rather useless to me. It put the alternator either too close to the frame (to the point you could not even slide the belt through) or too far to the rear of the engine that there was a significant misalignment of the pulleys. I had to use some washers to align it somewhere between. It works ok for now but not sure whether it will be perfect at 9,000rpm. I am seeing great voltage (14.5V) after redoing everything related to charging. Not bad and this is with the 96A unit.

Ryan, I simply got tired of replacing my alternator every year and I really do not drive my VR4 that much. It has a little over 110000 miles. Put maybe 12000 miles on it in 5 years! The car has always had crap voltage. When I bought it from my buddy years ago, it already had the battery in the trunk. I was not happy with it but at least the voltage would stay at 13.0-13.1V uptop. Not sure what happened last year, but I would regularly see voltage in the 12's...and it would even go into the 11's. Replaced the Autozone alternator and the new junk did the same thing. Enough. When I went to warranty the junk alternator, they could not order me another POS reman so I got my money back, plus more (prices jumped up quite a bit) and went and bought a regular 96 Saturn DOHC alternator from O'reillys. It was like $125'ish after tax. You need to get the one with the external fan. For some reason, the other internal fan version has a different harness which is harder to source. I picked up the Saturn Jay Racing kit (with the steel bracket) rather pricy for what it is at $150 but no better options. Beautiful anodized pieces. Engine was out of the car so I got to mount the alternator to see what it would look like and how much space I was working with. The relocation kit does not work if you have AC as it uses the same mounting holes. If you have seen any photos of this on a 1G, it is similar. I took some pix but they are not uploaded. I relocated my battery to the engine bay and mounted it onto the subframe by the transmission. I did something similar in my old 1G. I made some sort of bracket that mounted it to prevent any movement. The Saturn alternator harness I had had 4 wires. I used the bigger red signal wire and spliced it to the fuel pump trigger located all the way back into the trunk. I figured the further away the signal was, the better the voltage would be. I then wired the small wire on the factory harness (alternator) to the "L" wire on the Saturn alternator. That's it. I ran a 4AWG wire from the alternator B+ terminal directly to the positive of the battery (or junction block, preferably fused) if you have one where your starter is. I then ran a 4AWG negative from the alternator pivoting bolt to the negative terminal of the battery. A good idea to grind the anodizing coating off the alternator mounting bracket. On the battery, I ran a 4AWG from the negative ground terminal to the firewall. I ran another 4AWG wire from the battery to the transmission mounting bolt. I turned the car on and was shocked to see almost 15V at 900rpm idle. Turning the lights on and turning the fan on full blast had almost 0 effect on the voltage. The one thing that would drop the voltage a little was my high output Spal fan since it lowers the rpm a tad bit. Overall, very excited. I need more field testing. FYI, I do have a JMS boost a pump that runs my dual AEM pumps at 15'ish volts. System works great.

On the top is a pull in Oct at wastegate boost. On the bottom is a pull from yesterday...at 30psi. Screen grab rom the same rpm spot. Notice the battery line on the graph (solid blue.) 12.6V v/s 14.4V. I lifted at 7,000rpm but the voltage was 14.4V across. No dips.

[image]http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=177408&width=400[/image]

[image]http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=177409&width=400[/image]

 

[TSiAWD666]

Boy...there are serious issues with this mod. Sounds like people have been internalizing the pain of doing this mod for too long!
Some have found a way to get to it, but with lots of pain . I think I am going to holdout for now and find away to funnel cool air in there instead. I already got the exhaust manifold, use a non-stainless o2 housing, and Wrap the down pipe and o2 housing. But it is still hot ...I need to do more.

Right, it's a pain to do but there are reasons to put yourself through it. For me I needed to do it to make room for my turbo system, a BW EFR 7670 with internal gate turbine housing which is reeeally wide. It made it so the downturn of the o2 housing would hit the alternator in the OEM location. Another reason to do it is for heat due to proximity with the exhaust, especially aftermarket ones even when those were wrapped. While I personally made a heat shield for my alternator that worked perfectly, many people never think of it or bother to make one, and opt instead to move the alternator to the backside of the block to avoid the heat altogether.

As mentioned above don't use that bullshit offset power steering bracket with the jay racing kit, but instead use three belts. Here are the belts you will need:

Alternator to Crankshaft Pulley: Bando 4PK 830 (other numbers 4040327 and 327K4)
Power Steering to Water Pump: MD310617 (also Dayco 20-8993)
Water Pump to Crankshaft Pulley: Napa 25-040320 (also Bando 4PK 817, Gates K040320)

The water pump to crank belt will need to be walked onto the crank, which can be done with care by hand, or a screw driver, or better yet a tool for walking belts on. I screwed it up three times and each time had to loosen the water pump to get the belt off and start over (which in itself is a pain because you can only get a wrench on the bolts due to the frame rail).

 

[Planckscale]

Right, it's a pain to do but there are reasons to put yourself through it. For me I needed to do it to make room for my turbo system, a BW EFR 7670 with internal gate turbine housing which is reeeally wide. It made it so the downturn of the o2 housing would hit the alternator in the OEM location. Another reason to do it is for heat due to proximity with the exhaust, especially aftermarket ones even when those were wrapped. While I personally made a heat shield for my alternator that worked perfectly, many people never think of it or bother to make one, and opt instead to move the alternator to the backside of the block to avoid the heat altogether.

As mentioned above don't use that bullshit offset power steering bracket with the jay racing kit, but instead use three belts. Here are the belts you will need:

Alternator to Crankshaft Pulley: Bando 4PK 830 (other numbers 4040327 and 327K4)
Power Steering to Water Pump: MD310617 (also Dayco 20-8993)
Water Pump to Crankshaft Pulley: Napa 25-040320 (also Bando 4PK 817, Gates K040320)

The water pump to crank belt will need to be walked onto the crank, which can be done with care by hand, or a screw driver, or better yet a tool for walking belts on. I screwed it up three times and each time had to loosen the water pump to get the belt off and start over (which in itself is a pain because you can only get a wrench on the bolts due to the frame rail).

Your advice well taken. My biggest concern is on how to get to it for repairs...