GSTwithPSI Galant VR4 1837 of 2000

[GST with PSI]

Very cool

Just watch the video, I like how it looks installed, you did a good job to make it look factory.

Thanks!

The unit itself is very small. The wiring harness is very small as well, which makes installation in tight spaces a lot easier than most other electronics. I didn't even have to cut anything.

 

[We're on Boost]

@GST with PSI
Have you measured the E% in any E85 that you have bought since Dec 1 or so? Do you use a hydrometer to measure it?
I'm just curious about what your "winter blend" would be, or if you even get a winter blend there.

 

[GST with PSI]

@GST with PSI
Have you measured the E% in any E85 that you have bought since Dec 1 or so? Do you use a hydrometer to measure it?
I'm just curious about what your "winter blend" would be, or if you even get a winter blend there.

Yeah, IIRC, I tested a batch back in October and it was right at 80% E. I use a hydrometer: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gstwithpsis-galant-vr4-1837-2000.482807/page-7#post-153597330




After much time, money and effort, I finally got the car to the point where I felt like I could really push the 68HTA V2. My intention all along was to see what this turbo was really capable of, and I think I'm satisfied with the answer I got. I'll say a few things up front about this turbo:

First, I'll concede this turbo is on the laggy side. In spite of my best efforts, I was unable to get this to spool like it's TD05H predecessors. Now, that's not to say there's not room for improvement, because there certainly is. If spool was your overall goal, you could probably tailor your build to suit this turbo's characteristics a bit more than I have, and get better low end response. However, I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is not a 16G, so don't expect it to perform like one. Also, if you wanted to do the work and machine a 7cm turbine housing for this, I'd bet you'd see a decent improvement on the low end, but you'll certainly pay for that in peak flow (@94awdcoupe). That all being said, the spool isn't horrible considering the amount of air it moves up top.

Second, if you want to get real performance out of this turbo, you need to ditch the internal gate. I started with the stock type actuator that comes with the turbo from FP. It's shimmed to death right out of the box:

With the WGA setup above, I was only able to get about 30 PSI peak boost, which would fall off at redline (8k) to around ~25ish PSI. This is obviously bad for power up top, which is where you want gains out of this turbo over the TD05H units. I'm running ECMlink boost control, and maxed my duty cycle out across the board to get the boost numbers mentioned above.

So, I swapped to a modified Holset WG actuator in hopes that it would allow me to hold more boost up top (thanx @19gsx91). I even shimmed the shit out of it in hopes it would hold better. Although it did help a little, it only increased my ability to hold boost by a few pounds. I saw around 32 PSI peak, and could hold just over 26 PSI to redline after installing the Holset WGA. I'm running a good sized stainless tubular O2 housing, and have 3" cat back exhaust. Again also, my EBC was maxed out at 100% DC.

Bottom line, the internally gated turbine housing just creates too much back pressure to hold boost to redline. At least, that's my experience. If you are going for records on this turbo, it certainly won't be on the internally gated turbine housing...I'm certain of that.

After doing everything in my power to maximize boost, I figured it was time to hit the dyno and see what this 68HTA was capable of.

So, I hit up Dave at EFI Specialties & Performance to schedule some dyno time. All the tuning was done by me, but Dave was kind enough to lend me his dyno and Friday evening so I could put my shitbox on his rollers and play with the tune. It was awesome meeting Dave. He did an outstanding and professional job with the car on the dyno.

On the dyno, I only tweaked the SD table between pulls; boost and timing remained the same for all 3 runs. With each pull I saw a small power increase after tweaking the tune. With more pulls, I probably could have squeezed out a bit more power, but it really wasn't worth the time or effort at that point. Dave and I came to the general consensus that my turbo is damn near tapped out anyways, so there was no use in going for records. Logs seemed to agree, as they showed slightly over 51lbs/min, which would have been higher if the car would hold 30 PSI to redline. A log of the best run is attached below.

Laggy or not, bang for buck it's hard to beat the 68HTA V2, IMO. I picked this turbo up brand new for around $600 bucks shipped to my door, and it's a good performer for a stock appearing bolt-on unit. Sure, there are better turbos out there, but when you weigh them pound for pound against the 68HTA, I think the pros and cons can balance out depending on the application.

At the end of the day, I just wanted to see where the car was at on the 68HTA (V2) before I swapped to a new turbo setup next spring. I'm happy with the result, and the car runs awesome both on and off the dyno.

That being said, the biggest accomplishment isn't the power it made. I drove it 2 hours to EFI in Virginia, beat the shit out of it on the dyno all afternoon making decent power, and then drove back another 2 hours in stop-and-go shitty Virginia traffic. No squeaks, no leaks, no blow-ups, no bullshit. Find me 10 other Galant VR-4s that can make that claim, and I'll start sucking dicks...

 

[94awdcoupe]

looks pretty nice! what turbo setup is next?

 

[GST with PSI]

looks pretty nice! what turbo setup is next?

Thanks, Jerry. I appreciate it.

Next up is a FP3052! It should end up being very similar to the 68HTA setup performance wise, but...Ball bearing, better turbine housing, externally gated, and better flowing O2 housing.

I'm pretty happy with my current power level, but I think there's room to improve the delivery system

 

[94awdcoupe]

Awe perfect. drove a friends new version 68 on e85. I think a 3052 will hit harder and make another 75 or more from the ones I have driven. I wanted to use the 3052 on my latest project but choose to try efr 6758 as I was drawn into the latest technology thing.

I wanted to add the two gates you tried on the 68 dont work that great. I had a holset gate on my internally gated twin scroll setup because dsm forums rave about them.. I learned its short coming. is it has too much travel. by design it takes too much internal spring compression to get any increase in pressure. The gates to use are from EFR line. the can is flatter. IE shorter spring. It worked far better at holding a flat boost curve. Give one a try next time you build an internal gate setup.

 

[We're on Boost]

That looks really good - your dyno results.
I agree with your conclusions about the turbo, the 8cm vs 7cm housings, the wastegate haha!
You will love that V44 wastegate. I was disappointed at first that the current MVR would not fit on my setup, because I wanted a new wastegate. We had to get a used V44, for fit reasons. Kind of surprising since the MVR is "more compact" than the V44. But that's what happened. Anyway that thing is perfect. I just don't see how it could work any better. We didn't even put a new diaphragm in it. I did check with tech support at Tial about what I would do long term to keep that thing tip-top, now that they are something like 5 years out of production. They said no problem. Send the whole thing back to us and we will rebuild it with new valve, valve seat, diaphram, all for, I think it was about $150.

I think you will like the FP3052 too. With that you could be at about the 500 hp level that Tim says it's silly to go past. Excuse me, I think the saying was "completely stupid".
With the 3052 of course the torque will hold up better after the peak, instead of dropping off so fast. I love that feeling you get when after you hit that first blast of giant torque, it doesn't drop off, it keeps climbing more more AAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Thanks for pointing out your pic of the E85 tester. I see it's one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fuel-36-E85-FUEL-TEST/dp/B007ZJ749O
It's interesting because I've never looked into it, and I see those things don't measure density, they do something else. I'll prob read about that a little more.

 

[19gsx91]

That's pretty impressive numbers Brett! I'm kind of upset that wastegate didn't work out better for you though, I know you've been battling the boost drop off

 

[GST with PSI]

That's pretty impressive numbers Brett! I'm kind of upset that wastegate didn't work out better for you though, I know you've been battling the boost drop off

Thanks, Joe!

Honestly, the car did better than I anticipated. I figured the car would make right at 400whp, so the extra 30ish hp was nice to see. The torque is what I was really surprised and happy with, though! The car made 417ft/lbs, which is MUCH better than I expected out of my 2.0L on a stock frame turbo.

I had high hopes for the Holset actuator, but now I suspect the actuator itself may not actually be the issue. I'm wondering at this point if the stock BCS has something to do with my inability to hold boost at higher pressures. I'm considering picking up a a IR BCS to see if that helps at all (@gofer).

 

[19gsx91]

Thanks, Joe!

Honestly, the car did better than I anticipated. I figured the car would make right at 400whp, so the extra 30ish hp was nice to see. The torque is what I was really surprised and happy with, though! The car made 417ft/lbs, which is MUCH better than I expected out of my 2.0L on a stock frame turbo.

I had high hopes for the Holset actuator, but now I suspect the actuator itself may not actually be the issue. I'm wondering at this point if the stock BCS has something to do with my inability to hold boost at higher pressures. I'm considering picking up a a IR BCS to see if that helps at all (@gofer).

Yeah I was very impressed with the torque figures you put out, I'm very curious to see where it would of ended up had you been able to hold boost to redline, I'm itching to get the GSX back up and running but life keeps getting in the way, I have all the parts, just no time.

And as for the stock bcs vs IR bcs, I'm not sure just because I never got a chance to run my stock bcs, but using the IR BCS combined with an EWG setup I only had to make minimal changes to the tables to get it to maintain boost to redline, so that very well may be the issue, but it's not apples to apples because of my car being externally gated.

 

[Talon96fwd]

If it helps I have a heavy duty internal wastegate from precision. That I took off of my pte5857 turbo. Message me if your interested. Keep the updates coming!!!!!

 

[GST with PSI]

I'm pretty satisfied with the car at WOT, so I figured I'd really dial in the idle now that I'm done screwing with the tune.

FIC 1650 High Z injectors idle like stock. Hands down, the best and easiest injector I've ever tuned on.

 

[miliman13]

^Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ Good Kitty.

 

[Vr4#275]

Do you need a VR4 parts car?

 

[19gsx91]

I'm pretty satisfied with the car at WOT, so I figured I'd really dial in the idle now that I'm done screwing with the tune.

FIC 1650 High Z injectors idle like stock. Hands down, the best and easiest injector I've ever tuned on.

Brett, Are you still on the 264/272 split? I can hear a subtle lope to it but nothing like mine (Completely out of whack fp2s) I'm amazed at how good that sounds, are the high z injectors plug and play?

 

[94awdcoupe]

what RPM?

 

[GST with PSI]

Brett, Are you still on the 264/272 split? I can hear a subtle lope to it but nothing like mine (Completely out of whack fp2s) I'm amazed at how good that sounds, are the high z injectors plug and play?

Yeah, still on HKS 264/272 cams.

The FIC 1650 High Z injectors are plug and play. You just have to eliminate the resistor pack, as with all high impedance injectors.

what RPM?

If you're asking what my target idle is set at, it's 900 RPM.

 

[We're on Boost]

Regarding the solenoid: I just kinda re-read the FP Evo White development thread, where FP logged wastegate position, sort of, with a linear sensor on the rod from the can.

They said they tried a lot of different solenoids and finally found one that: “With an inlet pressure of 35 PSI it dropped outlet pressure to 1.5 PSI at 95% DC. NONE of the other common solenoids would get even close, most were a min of ~15PSI. This is key to getting an internal gate to hold boost at high RPM.” (for Normally Closed operation, bleed for higher boost)

This was way back in 2008, so I don’t know if the Ingersoll Rand solenoid was even available then or what ones they tried.

I remember this thread because it was so cool that they showed strip-chart logs of a bunch of unusual stuff, made with a MoTeC logger.

Posts #340 and #301: http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/354108-new-fp-white-turbo-23.html

At this point though, I don’t know how much is really left in it (the turbo). On one hand, FP rates the compressor at 51 lbs per minute, right ? which is a lot. On the other hand, it’s got a small turbine wheel, essentially a TD06SL2, I think, and those were regarded as about a 400 to 450 whp turbine wheel.

 

[94awdcoupe]

thats pretty interesting stuff on the boost solenoid. I was up on 9sec9 stuff when he was around doing cool stuff. missed that little tidbit post. now I have some testing to do my self.

a few years back people started using manual boost controllers in conjunction with solenoid control. was very effective at getting boost to stay at 38psi and higher as I remember. makes perfect sense now

 

[We're on Boost]

...... a few years back people started using manual boost controllers in conjunction with solenoid control. was very effective at getting boost to stay at 38psi and higher as I remember. makes perfect sense now

To do that, would they put the MBC on the inlet to the solenoid or the outlet?

 

[94awdcoupe]

manual controller would be on the inlet.

 

[GST with PSI]

I'm doing some more experimenting with the fuel system. I added an OBP 2 liter surge tank between the lift pumps and the A1000. It's a tight squeeze, but with some custom brackets I got it to fit under the rear quarter panel. I finished up the install at 11pm and didn't want to piss my neighbors off...So test drive tomorrow.

 

[GST with PSI]

I finished up the additions to the fuel system last night, but didn't get around to installing the IR BCS I picked up. I'm currently running ECMlink boost control on the stock 2 port solenoid, which works great. However, I'm having some issues with boost dropping off near redline. I've upgraded to a modified Holset WGA, but the internal gate is still blowing open up top.

In a last ditch effort, I wanted to try upgrading the BCS to see if that would help any.

After installing the IR BCS, I went for a test drive to try see how the fuel system and IR BCS performed. Everything worked awesome.

After a few pulls, I had the boost holding steady at 29 PSI at redline. So, it seems the stock BCS is definitely a limiting factor at some point. IR BCS FTW.

The new surge tank seems to be functioning as it should. I wanted to lower the working pressure between the 2 in-tank Aeromotive 340 lift pumps and the A1000, so the lift pumps could move more fuel. I was also having some issues with the lift pumps sucking the sump in the stock tank dry when the car would get under half a tank, so I needed to figure out a solution for that. The surge tank seems to have corrected that issue. Performance wise, IDCs still look awesome, and the car runs great. I will say, you can definitely tell the A1000 is there. The car sounds like a rocket ship on startup. If you're one of the guys who hate the whiny Walbro, this thing would make you cry.

She's a screamer

 

[We're on Boost]

I like it!
29 psi now, that's up more than 3psi from the log you showed in December, so I guess the solenoid really is an improvement.

The surge tank is cool, didn't know you could fit all that stuff back there.
One of the upper fittings is for a return line that goes right back to the gas tank, I think?

 

[GST with PSI]

One of the upper fittings is for a return line that goes right back to the gas tank, I think?

The very top port is the return line on the surge tank.

The two ports next to one another are the feed to the surge tank from the lift pumps. I'm currently only using one, but I think I may run a separate line for each lift pump in the future.