420A Turbo stock block

[Sws]

Is it out of the question to get 250-300HP on a stock block? It's a rebuilt engine with a sightly bigger bore and only around 20k miles.

 

[grothe3297venge]

The rods are the weakest link.. it's not a matter of if, but when will they give out. 250-300 hp on a stock block, maybe..but not for long.

 

[Sws]

The rods are the weakest link.. it's not a matter of if, but when will they give out. 250-300 hp on a stock block, maybe..but not for long.

Would the fairly newish engine lengthen the period though?

 

[eclipse420ags]

This has been tried time and again by stubborn people who blow there engines soon after, as long as its a small turbo pushing no more than 8 psi it should be able to last a while. Look here and on 2gnt.com for people selling there gently used eagle/wiseco rods.

 

[jayson427]

It's all about the tune more or less. 8psi doesn't mean nothing it's the cfm that matters. I've seen people run 11psi on a 2.4ledz swap on a Fmu. That car made awesome power but it only lasted a month before throwing a rod. It's really jot safe to push hp on stock internals. Unless you have endless money to spend.

 

[eclipse420ags]

Thats why I said a small turbo, we all realize 8 psi on a 14b and a gt60 are not the same. But I agree with jayson its not safe.

 

[95VENG]

i learned the hard way ran 10lbs on stock rods and pistons, and ended up cracking a ring land. Like stated before you can have everything set up right but, rods can only handle so much, and its only a matter of when you will bend a rod.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

actually the weak point is the rod bolts, not the rods. The rod bolts stretch and cause the rod to seize on the crank or damage the bearing. Using LS1 ARP rod bolts, more than a few guys have been over 350whp on stock rods.

And actually running a smaller, quicker spooling turbo is harder on internals than a larger, slower spooling turbo. Think of it in terms of the actual amount of time the combustion event has to create force on the pistons and rods: at Lower rpm's, the piston is traveling slower, staying in each combustion event for a longer period of time; at Higher rpm's, the piston is traveling faster, staying in each combustion event for a shorter period of time, allowing less time for the combustion event to act on the piston/rod.
Also, at higher rpm, there is more inertial force (horsepower) from the engine and so it takes less direct force on the piston/rod to cause the crank to turn 1 revolution.

I ran 14-15psi with a 60trim with no intercooler on e85 on a single cam neon (same block) for 6 months, beating the crap out of it every day. I was moving and have a few projects so I parted it out. Never had any issue with it... and that was a 100% stock block (no arp bolts) and 100% stock auto trans

 

[grothe3297venge]

actually the weak point is the rod bolts, not the rods. The rod bolts stretch and cause the rod to seize on the crank or damage the bearing. Using LS1 ARP rod bolts, more than a few guys have been over 350whp on stock rods.

And actually running a smaller, quicker spooling turbo is harder on internals than a larger, slower spooling turbo. Think of it in terms of the actual amount of time the combustion event has to create force on the pistons and rods: at Lower rpm's, the piston is traveling slower, staying in each combustion event for a longer period of time; at Higher rpm's, the piston is traveling faster, staying in each combustion event for a shorter period of time, allowing less time for the combustion event to act on the piston/rod.
Also, at higher rpm, there is more inertial force (horsepower) from the engine and so it takes less direct force on the piston/rod to cause the crank to turn 1 revolution.

I ran 14-15psi with a 60trim with no intercooler on e85 on a single cam neon (same block) for 6 months, beating the crap out of it every day. I was moving and have a few projects so I parted it out. Never had any issue with it... and that was a 100% stock block (no arp bolts) and 100% stock auto trans

His car is a 420a, can't use LS1 rod bolts..

Lastly, e85 and no intercooler.. cool story bro point of this conversion is how long it would last. You only had it for 6 months and parted it, maybe because it blew up for all we know.

Why not lead him into a path of least destruction and do it once and do it right.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

ok...... LS1 rod bolts WILL work in a 420a just so you are now aware. ECB, ECC, 420a all use the same rod bolts. please check your info before posting, thank you.

As for reliability, the tune is key. 300whp on a stock block reliably is easy to accomplish.

 

[grothe3297venge]

ok...... LS1 rod bolts WILL work in a 420a just so you are now aware. ECB, ECC, 420a all use the same rod bolts. please check your info before posting, thank you.

As for reliability, the tune is key. 300whp on a stock block reliably is easy to accomplish.

Again, show where and I'll admit that I have NEVER seen anyone on here say they used LS1 rod bolts. Why would everyone purchase arp2000 rod bolts for the 420a specifically when arp makes rod bolts for our engine.. sooooo strange.

But one guy who says many has done it, yet no links to said "info" that I'm incorrect about.

Sorry OP, guess I'm old fashioned and stick with a tried and true path..

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

actually the weak point is the rod bolts, not the rods. The rod bolts stretch and cause the rod to seize on the crank or damage the bearing. Using LS1 ARP rod bolts, more than a few guys have been over 350whp on stock rods.

And actually running a smaller, quicker spooling turbo is harder on internals than a larger, slower spooling turbo. Think of it in terms of the actual amount of time the combustion event has to create force on the pistons and rods: at Lower rpm's, the piston is traveling slower, staying in each combustion event for a longer period of time; at Higher rpm's, the piston is traveling faster, staying in each combustion event for a shorter period of time, allowing less time for the combustion event to act on the piston/rod.
Also, at higher rpm, there is more inertial force (horsepower) from the engine and so it takes less direct force on the piston/rod to cause the crank to turn 1 revolution.

I ran 14-15psi with a 60trim with no intercooler on e85 on a single cam neon (same block) for 6 months, beating the crap out of it every day. I was moving and have a few projects so I parted it out. Never had any issue with it... and that was a 100% stock block (no arp bolts) and 100% stock auto trans

this is bullshit, your talking about a 4g63... or maybe not who knows what your trying to say.
No intercooler?
Loled irl.
Typical Honda guy buying a big turbo and running probably like 5psi and claiming 10more......

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

Honda guy? ok. I've been building ECC and ECB neons for over 10 years, before megasquirt was even on the radar. I have been tuning cars on e85 for over 8 years (Nistune, Hondata, Link, AEM, EFIlive, Motec, HPtuners, etc.) and I have more than a few toys to tinker with.... Just because I'm putting a 700+whp engine in a 2500lb car that just so happens to be a honda means im a honda boy.... then JDM, yo.
I'm not even gonna try to help you guys anymore...... have fun with your cars and I wish you the best.

 

[psycho]

Again, show where and I'll admit that I have NEVER seen anyone on here say they used LS1 rod bolts. Why would everyone purchase arp2000 rod bolts for the 420a specifically when arp makes rod bolts for our engine.. sooooo strange.

But one guy who says many has done it, yet no links to said "info" that I'm incorrect about.

Sorry OP, guess I'm old fashioned and stick with a tried and true path..

He's correct, you can use LS1 ARP rod bolts for the stock 2.0 and 2.4 rods.

And you get 16 in a pack so you can make 50% or so back.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=348425

That's just one thread of many.

 

[grothe3297venge]

See I don't mind being stand corrected unless someone had proof. Thank. You psycho.

 

[psycho]

See I don't mind being stand corrected unless someone had proof. Thank. You psycho.

Oh, no problem! Always here to help.