Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[keltalon]

Here is some inportant information on why those who see less oil pressure with the forward facing filter housing than with the one that came on the 1g and 2g cars.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9HWr74pYjx8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[92AWDHX40]

Very interesting nice to know if your running one of those.

 

[keltalon]

Very interesting nice to know if your running one of those.

Yeah espeacially if you are targeting high rpm power. Notice in this video how low my oil pressure is on this pull. I took the car home and waited until I had time to investigate the problem. I took the oil pan and timing belt off and put a drill on the oil pump gear and held a cup of oil on the pick up tube and knoticed that the forward facing filter was constantly bleeding oil back into the pan even on a low drill setting. I then reinstalled the old 1990 filter housing and knotice that it wasn't bleeding until I put the drill on high speed, to create a higher oil pressure. at this point I knew something wasn't right and started to investigate and found the reason as stated above.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vy6Vx8icdEo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[92AWDHX40]

Again good to know i never used one before and the one i have on my 92 seems to work just fine. Does it affect anything if your using any kind of cooler i have a 90 ofh and im thinking of getting a cooler for it.

 

[ceedawg]

Thank God I still have my engine on the engine stand . FFwd oil filter hsing comes off this wknd and to machine shop unless my buddy could tack it up. Thanks a million Kels!!!!

 

[T is for TURBO]

Do you have any numbers? Like, what is your oil pressure at idle? 4.5? 8k? What weight oil? I assume your profile is up to date and you still have a BSE kit installed.

I ask, because, maybe this isn't bad for everyone. For example, my oil pressure is really close to the bored of being to high. Especially when cold. 60-80 psi at idle, depending on the weather. ~40 when the car is warm. This is with a ported '90 style OFH.

 

[ceedawg]

Do you have any numbers? Like, what is your oil pressure at idle? 4.5? 8k? What weight oil? I assume your profile is up to date and you still have a BSE kit installed.

I ask, because, maybe this isn't bad for everyone. For example, my oil pressure is really close to the bored of being to high. Especially when cold. 60-80 psi at idle, depending on the weather. ~40 when the car is warm. This is with a ported '90 style OFH.

I believe the issue is more of a problem when you are taking the motor to higher rpms after the oil is warm. the oil pressure is staying low. Kels video is showing that in the 3rd gear pull.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I understand that, but the video doesn't tell the whole story. That's why I asked. Plus, the stock gauge is about as useful as tits on a bull.

 

[keltalon]

I understand that, but the video doesn't tell the whole story. That's why I asked. Plus, the stock gauge is about as useful as tits on a bull.

Unfortunately I don't have any oil pressure numbers. The stock gauge in my car has never been below the actual threshold not until I put the forward facing filter housing on.

 

[darren]

Hey guys. A customer brought this posting to my attention. Wanted my take on it. Here ya go...

First, Mr Kel, let me say good job for pointing out to the folks about that little pee hole in those Triple Fs...indeed it is there. The NT cars don't have them...the 90 brackets don't have them, and the 91-94 brackets don't have them. Good attention to detail.

But actually that's about where the detail stopped as there wasn't enough of it to surmise a solid conclusion to your investigation.

There are many factors involved in the reason(s) why you have low oil pressure in your scenario. It certainly isn't everybody's scenario and certainly not over here. Even both your filters in the vid shown were two different brands. That makes a big difference. Also, like another poster had said, having a BSEK and which oil viscosity used are other factors...no...BIG factors.

Basically saying to compare apples to apples here.

We've found that with every race motor that I personally have built over the past 12 years, oil pressure has only been a factor of being on the "high" side...definitely not low. No way Jose. This is plenty of real world usage...lots of pound town...lots of full boogie guys running our brackets. No kaBooms related to low oil pressure...unless of course the guy really wanted to run an oil cooler with the Triple F and a line spit off.

So overall, I think it is somewhat "bad science" by telling people to ditch their Triple Fs simply because your cordless drill and stock gauge says to do so.

Let me also add I'm not here to defend our Triple F sales...I just can't stand to see questionable info passed along. The internet is forever.

Further, I will not debate this issue...I will not argue this issue. Just letting others know what my own personal experience has been. Nothing more.

As with anyone that knows this shop, all products I sell I use and/or endorse. I don't sell crap...I don't do crap. If there was anything questionable about these brackets we well (or any other part we sell for that matter), then we wouldn't be selling them. Easy peezy.

Aloha and as always, a big special thanks to all of our supporters! You know who you are.

 

[mitsurage]

I am curious why this only comes up now. Many, I mean many people run these with no issues. I think you are too caught up with this little bleed hole. Two things Darren mentioned that I was thinking. A. Testing your hypothesis is incomplete. Your findings are only partial. I feel you have more work to do. B. people still run Fram filters?

 

[keltalon]

Well not just my senario look here
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/329676-front-facing-oil-filter-housing.html post #3 onward.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/393666-how-raise-oil-pressure-new-built-engine.html
I do know I plugged the hole and all is good. This thread was not an attack on any vendor nor was anyone named other than mitsubishi for why they put the port in the mighty max filter housing. for me to use it, it had to be modified and i thought i share it with the forum. oil pressure is to my liking now

 

[bradselph]

well, i loved my ffofh besides the lowered oil pressure, even with brad penn 20-50 my idle was about 15psi at 1k idle was even lower at normal 750-800 idle but i couldn't idle to well that low with the 280 cams.

At wot i had 75psi from 5500 all the way to redline of 8500, now this engine suffered a spun rod bearing and bent rod not sure why i never really looked into it other than a it was basically a stock block pushing about 60lb/min of air from a hx40.

 

[90TSI717]

I have never encountered any oil pressure problems running the forward facing housing. Even with the balance shafts, the stock gauge stays happy. Glad you fixed it to your liking!

 

[keltalon]

I have never encountered any oil pressure problems running the forward facing housing. Even with the balance shafts, the stock gauge stays happy. Glad you fixed it to your liking!

That's the beautiful part about modding our cars is that each one of us do to our cars what makes us happy it's a trade mark of freedom I love my freedom!

I am curious why this only comes up now. Many, I mean many people run these with no issues. I think you are too caught up with this little bleed hole. Two things Darren mentioned that I was thinking. A. Testing your hypothesis is incomplete. Your findings are only partial. I feel you have more work to do. B. people still run Fram filters?

Your answer is in post #12 and #13. Most guys engines will spin a bearing and will not even give any consideration to the real culprit and its the unmodified forward facing filter.

 

[killercolt]

I installed quit a bit of forward facing filter housings into engines I did over the years and I the only complaint I gets is the oil pressure being too high. They always complained about the oil pressure being around 100psi and they wanted me to port the relief hole. I always tell them tell no because that I believe that is a stupid mod on a DSM.

I don't know what is causing you to have low oil pressure. If it is the pin hole, then it is a good point that you are bringing forth that info. This way we can have point to fix just in case we have similar problem. I am surprise that a little holes like that can cause such a dramatic drop in oil pressure.

I have precautions for future forward facing filter housing users:

-Be care how the hot side of the intercooler pipe is routed. It can hit the oil filter and cause the oil filter to snap off the housing.

-Remove the oil filter when dropping the engine in. It can accidentally hits the frame and snap off too.

-Inspect the threaded area where the oil filter threads onto the housing. My friend was doing a street tune at 100mph+ and his oil filter just shear at the thread area. You can imagine the damage.

-On 1g, forward facing oil filter can be a pain when changing the oil. The oil drip directly onto the subframe and drain along the length of the subframe. You will need a long or two oil pan to keep the oil from dripping onto the ground. You can up a drip tray to direct the oil drip and resolve this issue

-Not all forward facing oil filter housing are the same. Get the oil from FFWD. They got it figure out. The kit from them comes complete with bolts, gasket, and necessary fittings for the install. You can get it cheaper from else where. By the time you get the parts and tool to make it work, you are better off giving the guys from FFWD your money.

 

[keltalon]

I installed quit a bit of forward facing filter housings into engines I did over the years and I the only complaint I gets is the oil pressure being too high. They always complained about the oil pressure being around 100psi and they wanted me to port the relief hole. I always tell them tell no because that I believe that is a stupid mod on a DSM.

I don't know what is causing you to have low oil pressure. If it is the pin hole, then it is a good point that you are bringing forth that info. This way we can have point to fix just in case we have similar problem. I am surprise that a little holes like that can cause such a dramatic drop in oil pressure.

I have precautions for future forward facing filter housing users:

-Be care how the hot side of the intercooler pipe is routed. It can hit the oil filter and cause the oil filter to snap off the housing.

-Remove the oil filter when dropping the engine in. It can accidentally hits the frame and snap off too.

-Inspect the threaded area where the oil filter threads onto the housing. My friend was doing a street tune at 100mph+ and his oil filter just shear at the thread area. You can imagine the damage.

-On 1g, forward facing oil filter can be a pain when changing the oil. The oil drip directly onto the subframe and drain along the length of the subframe. You will need a long or two oil pan to keep the oil from dripping onto the ground. You can up a drip tray to direct the oil drip and resolve this issue

-Not all forward facing oil filter housing are the same. Get the oil from FFWD. They got it figure out. The kit from them comes complete with bolts, gasket, and necessary fittings for the install. You can get it cheaper from else where. By the time you get the parts and tool to make it work, you are better off giving the guys from FFWD your money.

Some good points to keep in mind Maybe some years came with the relief hole and some didn't but once I plugged the hole pressure is up now. Once I installed my oil cooler and oil pressure gauge I will update this thread with some actual oil pressure numbers

 

[Jon91TSi]

I installed quit a bit of forward facing filter housings into engines I did over the years and I the only complaint I gets is the oil pressure being too high. They always complained about the oil pressure being around 100psi and they wanted me to port the relief hole. I always tell them tell no because that I believe that is a stupid mod on a DSM.

I don't know what is causing you to have low oil pressure. If it is the pin hole, then it is a good point that you are bringing forth that info. This way we can have point to fix just in case we have similar problem. I am surprise that a little holes like that can cause such a dramatic drop in oil pressure.

I have precautions for future forward facing filter housing users:

-Be care how the hot side of the intercooler pipe is routed. It can hit the oil filter and cause the oil filter to snap off the housing.

-Remove the oil filter when dropping the engine in. It can accidentally hits the frame and snap off too.

-Inspect the threaded area where the oil filter threads onto the housing. My friend was doing a street tune at 100mph+ and his oil filter just shear at the thread area. You can imagine the damage.

-On 1g, forward facing oil filter can be a pain when changing the oil. The oil drip directly onto the subframe and drain along the length of the subframe. You will need a long or two oil pan to keep the oil from dripping onto the ground. You can up a drip tray to direct the oil drip and resolve this issue

-Not all forward facing oil filter housing are the same. Get the oil from FFWD. They got it figure out. The kit from them comes complete with bolts, gasket, and necessary fittings for the install. You can get it cheaper from else where. By the time you get the parts and tool to make it work, you are better off giving the guys from FFWD your money.

Not to mention the guys at FFWD are good people. My forward facing housing is in the mail.

 

[keltalon]

8

I installed quit a bit of forward facing filter housings into engines I did over the years and I the only complaint I gets is the oil pressure being too high. They always complained about the oil pressure being around 100psi and they wanted me to port the relief hole. I always tell them tell no because that I believe that is a stupid mod on a DSM.

I don't know what is causing you to have low oil pressure. If it is the pin hole, then it is a good point that you are bringing forth that info. This way we can have point to fix just in case we have similar problem. I am surprise that a little holes like that can cause such a dramatic drop in oil pressure.

I have precautions for future forward facing filter housing users:

-Be care how the hot side of the intercooler pipe is routed. It can hit the oil filter and cause the oil filter to snap off the housing.

-Remove the oil filter when dropping the engine in. It can accidentally hits the frame and snap off too.

-Inspect the threaded area where the oil filter threads onto the housing. My friend was doing a street tune at 100mph+ and his oil filter just shear at the thread area. You can imagine the damage.

-On 1g, forward facing oil filter can be a pain when changing the oil. The oil drip directly onto the subframe and drain along the length of the subframe. You will need a long or two oil pan to keep the oil from dripping onto the ground. You can up a drip tray to direct the oil drip and resolve this issue

-Not all forward facing oil filter housing are the same. Get the oil from FFWD. They got it figure out. The kit from them comes complete with bolts, gasket, and necessary fittings for the install. You can get it cheaper from else where. By the time you get the parts and tool to make it work, you are better off giving the guys from FFWD your money.

Hey killer wasn't your boy that spun bearing on the dyno running a forward facing filter?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Your answer is in post #12 and #13. Most guys engines will spin a bearing and will not even give any consideration to the real culprit and its the unmodified forward facing filter.

That is a hell of a conclusion from your sample size of "1" motor that you've had your hands on with low pressure and an FF OFH.

A lot of details that will determine oil pressure weren't taken into consideration. Beyond that, you weren't even measuring actual oil pressure..

 

[We're on Boost]

people still run Fram filters?

I know what you mean. But that one is a TG, a "Tough Guard" and if you for some reason want to run a Fram filter, that is the only one worth thinking about, in my opinion.

 

[keltalon]

people still run Fram filters?

I usually run wix on my eclipse but for break in purpose I ran
the fram it served the purpose. Jeez

 

[untouchablecc]

Some people on this forum... it just makes me wonder what rug they crawled out from under. Some of these posts are just down right annoying and jumping to conclusions. Can we say trollS?

Anyways thank you for sharing the info, sure it doesnt have hard data laid out in numbers for some people but its good to know and keep in the back of your mind. I think its pretty simple, you had good oil pressure with a stock 90 ofh and you did not with a forward facing oil filter. Tack the hole shut and your back to normal. Sure maybe you should go the extra mile and put a gauge on it to make some of the guys on here with a hard on for specifics happy. Raw datas always good but at least now some of us know something we didn't.

I usually run wix on all of my cars but for break in suppose I rsn the fram it served the purpose. Jeez

How dare you haha. I run cheap advance auto filters on a break in.

 

[ceedawg]

Some people on this forum... it just makes me wonder what rug they crawled out from under. Some of these posts are just down right annoying and jumping to conclusions. Can we say trollS?

Anyways thank you for sharing the info, sure it doesnt have hard data laid out in numbers for some people but its good to know and keep in the back of your mind. I think its pretty simple, you had good oil pressure with a stock 90 ofh and you did not with a forward facing oil filter. Tack the hole shut and your back to normal. Sure maybe you should go the extra mile and put a gauge on it to make some of the guys on here with a hard on for specifics happy. Raw datas always good but at least now some of us know something we didn't.

Amen! Some folks have that "the world is flat" syndrome here. Perhaps had there been a vid showing oil pressure loss and the oil bleeding out to the bottom end maybe some folks would kind of understand. But then again,Kels really didnt even have to mention it and could have kept it to himself. Fortunately I didnt need no stinking video once it was explained to me in detail to understand the dilemma that was found. However for each his own. Its your car do what you guys want.Thanks for the info Kels!

 

[Calan]

Sure maybe you should go the extra mile and put a gauge on it to make some of the guys on here with a hard on for specifics happy.

Seriously?

Some of these posts are just down right annoying and jumping to conclusions. Can we say trollS?

How odd. That is exactly what I was thinking.