Holset Turbos, PART 9

[silversgst]

Wow thanks guys! I really thought that the 12cm was the issue, but if there making those numbers with the tiny 9cm housing then heck . Ill turn the boost up a few psi watch out for knock and see what it dose. Max ill be running on the hx35 is 30 to 33 psi wasnt to sure to turn it up. But now I am. Im in the middle of my awd swap but it should be runin here soon. thanks. Btw i was runinng 50/50 boost juice by snow performance WES_393

 

[tin_tin13]

I have a question is there a reason why people dont stick with the internal wastegate setup? Going to pick up a hx40 19cm internally gated and looking to run that way.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Well i can't say for the hx40 stock housing because i run external and the BEP, but most of the timewoth other turbos it allows boost creep and also might not be large enough to keep the back pressure down. I haven't ran a stock hx40 housing. But i would think it's a similar idea.

 

[JayB12]

Just curious, I am going to upgrade to the .70 BEP housing for my HX35 and I will be making a custom downpipe.

Has anyone used anything other than this clamp/flange?
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

I've seen 3" flanges and clamps on eBay for less than 20 shipped, but I don't know if they will work.

 

[JusMX141]

I have a question is there a reason why people dont stick with the internal wastegate setup? Going to pick up a hx40 19cm internally gated and looking to run that way.

Only pulls from one runner and is a severely-undersized wastegate if you're looking to control any amount of boost. The flapper is about the size of a quarter, the hole in the housing itself isn't much larger than a dime.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Does anybody know where I can find a heat shield for my holset setup? I have a hx40 with the bep housing and I have it bolted up to a sbr cast manifold with a 38mm external welded to it. I've looked high and low but can't seem to find anything anywhere and I'm trying to lower the temps under hood before I start boosting this turbo because I don't want to cook it.

Here is a pic of my setup:

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One guy on craigslist had a jnz polished heat shield with the sbr cast manifold and external and had a cutout for the wastegate, but wouldn't sell just the heatshield to me without selling the entire setup. Really don't want to spend $90 on a heat shield and then take it to a shop and have to pay them to cut it up to fit. Does anybody have a used heatshield laying around or know where I can get one a bit cheaper.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

A turbo blanket would probably help you a fair bit. Your not gonna cook your turbo because you have missing heat shields.

You also could modify an oem shield for your waste gate yourself, doubt you would need a shop for that.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

A turbo blanket would probably help you a fair bit. Your not gonna cook your turbo because you have missing heat shields.

You also could modify an oem shield for your waste gate yourself, doubt you would need a shop for that.

I may not cook my turbo due to a missing heat shield, but the temps I'm seeing under my hood right now can cook this turbo if I start running the high boost that I want to run in this 100 degree weather. The heat shield is just one thing that i'm wanting to add in a combination of things I'm doing to lower those temps.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

What sort of temps are you seeing? I'm running a sch10 tubular manifold and an hx40 no shields and it's been pretty hot and I'm not having any issues? I do have a turbo blanket to throw on next time the turbo is off. I haven't infra red temp'd my bay but it couldn't be far off from what your thinking might hurt things. I'm not worried about my turbo as much as i worry about my alternator haha.

Turbos are designed for heat. You probably shouldn't have to worry about it at all shield or not.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this.. but the temperature inside the turbo is much greater than the engine bay ambient temp.

The purpose of heat shielding, wraps, blankets, ceramic coating, etc. is to keep heat (energy) in the turbine system.

That they keep under hood temps lower is a handy symptom of that effect and not the reason for doing so.

Make sense?

If you are worried about "cooking" your turbo.. monitor EGTs, provide plenty of clean airflow through the IC/Radiator via proper fan/ducting/shrouding, make sure the back of the hood is sealed well to the cowling and keep a steady stream of oil at the proper pressure available with an adequate drain.

Letting the turbo cool down before shut off is not a bad idea either

 

[JusMX141]

OEM heat shield would fit that manifold after you cut it for the wastegate provision. Put up a WTB at in the appropriate classified group and I'm sure someone will help you out.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this.. but the temperature inside the turbo is much greater than the engine bay ambient temp.

The purpose of heat shielding, wraps, blankets, ceramic coating, etc. is to keep heat (energy) in the turbine system.

That they keep under hood temps lower is a handy symptom of that effect and not the reason for doing so.

Make sense?

If you are worried about "cooking" your turbo.. monitor EGTs, provide plenty of clean airflow through the IC/Radiator via proper fan/ducting/shrouding, make sure the back of the hood is sealed well to the cowling and keep a steady stream of oil at the proper pressure available with an adequate drain.

Letting the turbo cool down before shut off is not a bad idea either

My biggest concern is the oil pressure is perfect within spec as the car first heats up, but after I drive around a while and the temperature continues to rise, the oil pressure starts to fall and is borderline low, seeing 8-9 psi at idle and between 25-30 psi at low rpms when cruising. I have an oil gauge tapped post-restrictor (.078 Restrictor in my 4an oil feedline from the OFH) right before the turbo feed so I know it's accurate.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Sounds like you have some other issues goin on... Do you have balance shafts still? What weight oil do you run?

 

[JusMX141]

Open up the restrictor a bit. The .078" is too small if you're seeing warm idle and cruise pressures that low.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Or run a -12 drain and no restriction.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Open up the restrictor a bit. The .078" is too small if you're seeing warm idle and cruise pressures that low.

So what are you thinking, should I just go to the end of the range and open it up to .095?

Or run a -12 drain and no restriction.

I have a -12an return line. Before the restrictor I was seeing oil pressure as high as 90 psi at start up and I could barely give it any throttle or it would go over 80psi and probably well over 100 if I really womped on it.

 

[WES_393]

Regardless of drain size, that's still not enough oil pressure.

Straight from the holset hx repair manual .pdf:

8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9° F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
9. Any pre-lube oil must be clean and meet the minimum CD classification.
10. The orientation of turbine housing, bearing housing and compressor cover is fixed according to application. During installation, do not attempt to rotate these components. Inclined turbocharger installation is not recommended. If an installed angle is necessary, oil inlet centreline must be +/- 10 degrees from vertical and rotor centreline +/- 5 degrees from horizontal.
11. Holset permits oil return pipes to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.All turbocharger applications require a pipe of internal diameter greater than 19 mm which has integrated connectors. To ensure oil returns into the engine under all operating conditions, the return connection into the engine sump must not be submerged and the outlet flange of the turbocharger must be 50 mm above the maximum oil level of the engine sump pan. Crankcase pressure should be limited ideally to 0.8 kPa (0.12 lbf/in2) but 1.4 kPa (0.20 lbf/in2) can be accepted by reference to Holset.
12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.
13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
14. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.​

My oil pressure (at OFH) is around 100psi on cold start, around 50-60psi cruising, and ~20 at warm idle. I'm running a .109" restrictor and 3/4" Silicone hose for the drain. Not a drop of oil has made it into either housing and shaft play hasn't changed since day 1. So like Justin said, you need to open up that restrictor. I'd also recommend running 15-40 Rotella oil, or at least something similar in weight and content.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

^ i get same pressures and results with no restriction 20w50

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Regardless of drain size, that's still not enough oil pressure.



My oil pressure (at OFH) is around 100psi on cold start, around 50-60psi cruising, and ~20 at warm idle. I'm running a .109" restrictor and 3/4" Silicone hose for the drain. Not a drop of oil has made it into either housing and shaft play hasn't changed since day 1. So like Justin said, you need to open up that restrictor. I'd also recommend running 15-40 Rotella oil, or at least something similar in weight and content.

Yeah I know the holset specs.. maybe you didn't notice my post in front of yours because it was like 2 mins before you posted yours, but My car was seeing way too much pressure before with a 4an line and no restrictor. I could barely give it any gas before it wanted to exceed 90+ psi oil pressure, and now it's not seeing quite enough pressure with a .078 restrictor.

I need to drill it out a little more so that's it's perfect. Question is, how much?

I'm not sure if you are aware of this.. but the temperature inside the turbo is much greater than the engine bay ambient temp.

The purpose of heat shielding, wraps, blankets, ceramic coating, etc. is to keep heat (energy) in the turbine system.

That they keep under hood temps lower is a handy symptom of that effect and not the reason for doing so.

Make sense?

If you are worried about "cooking" your turbo.. monitor EGTs, provide plenty of clean airflow through the IC/Radiator via proper fan/ducting/shrouding, make sure the back of the hood is sealed well to the cowling and keep a steady stream of oil at the proper pressure available with an adequate drain.

Letting the turbo cool down before shut off is not a bad idea either

Understood. I do have a turbo timer that I have set on 2 minutes after I shut the car off.

 

[Cdc1221]

This might come off as a dumb question, but would it be possible to run a hy35 at, say, 10 psi on stock injectors with no tune? Or would that still be too much airflow? I've got a 20g I'm rebuilding that I'm considering selling if I can run the hy for a few hundred miles as the car sits. Plus I hate to swap setups two months down the road as well

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I wouldn't recommend it.. Do you have a wide band on the car at least? What will you do for wastegating?

What do you intend to use for tuning?

In the mean time there are things you can do to provide some head room with the fuel system but you will still have to be mindful of fuel cut.

Starting with a fuel pump rewire, if the fuel filter is original change it or adapt from the stock hardline to AN fitting so you can run a serviceable filter like a Golan SS unit then with a real adapter you can run a new line to the rail.

This let's you delete the super restrictive banjo fitting and unless you have major plans in the future this part off your fuel system will not need to be upgraded. This will drop IDCs considerably. Between this and the pump rewire once you have a way to tune you will have enough fuel for nearly 300whp.

You will want a large gate and a soft spring before you have the rest of the supporting mods in order.

 

[Cdc1221]

I'll be using an external gate off the manifold for sure. Stock gate is like 21 #s. And I already have a 255 HP to throw in it to take care of getting fuel. I'm just ready to get her running vs sitting around waiting on parts and cash flow. Plus that air hog is sitting on my desk begging to whistle

And I intend to buy link again. Lc1 is waiting for the weather to clear. I def won't go in blind this time

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I wouldn't recommend it.. Do you have a wide band on the car at least? What will you do for wastegating?

What do you intend to use for tuning?

In the mean time there are things you can do to provide some head room with the fuel system but you will still have to be mindful of fuel cut.

Starting with a fuel pump rewire, if the fuel filter is original change it or adapt from the stock hardline to AN fitting so you can run a serviceable filter like a Golan SS unit then with a real adapter you can run a new line to the rail.

This let's you delete the super restrictive banjo fitting and unless you have major plans in the future this part off your fuel system will not need to be upgraded. This will drop IDCs considerably. Between this and the pump rewire once you have a way to tune you will have enough fuel for nearly 300whp.

You will want a large gate and a soft spring before you have the rest of the supporting mods in order.

You just reminded me that i need a fuel filter and -6AN lines. Ahhh ordering later haha

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You just reminded me that i need a fuel filter and -6AN lines. Ahhh ordering later haha

For the feed side unless you are running E85 you could very well just leave the stock hard line, run an adapter to a filter and a rail adapter. I would use -8 for the adapters, filter and hose. This is closer to the rail ID and further removes restriction.

I'll be using an external gate off the manifold for sure. Stock gate is like 21 #s. And I already have a 255 HP to throw in it to take care of getting fuel. I'm just ready to get her running vs sitting around waiting on parts and cash flow. Plus that air hog is sitting on my desk begging to whistle

And I intend to buy link again. Lc1 is waiting for the weather to clear. I def won't go in blind this time

I'm liking the TiAl MV-S units I've got now. V-band, multiple port locations top and bottom with provisions for water cooling.

You would be well suited to run a single 44mm.. which is the MV-R. Only difference is size, both come with all the springs offered so you can switch to a stronger one when you have a wideband, a way to tune, the fuel system to back it up and a boost controller

Just be mindful, fuel cut is based on airflow

 

[WES_393]

For the feed side unless you are running E85 you could very well just leave the stock hard line, run an adapter to a filter and a rail adapter.

That's what I did- Stock filter, adapter fittings, and braided hose to the rail. Even with 6an lines my 1150's are fat and happy.

I'm liking the TiAl MV-S units I've got now. V-band, multiple port locations top and bottom with provisions for water cooling.

I'm also a fan of my Tial MVS. It's a smart, compact design and it gets the job done on my 60mm H1E. I've ran as low as 15psi without creep issues. And like Landspeed said, be sure to use the low pressure wastegate spring(s). You can always raise pressure with a boost controller later, but you can't go lower without swapping springs.