68hta or hx35?

[silicosys4]

I seem to remember this thread somewhere, but I couldn't find it so sorry if this is redundant.

I've got a ported 68hta with 0 miles sitting in the box in my closet, waiting for the supporting mods to come together, which they finally are.
I wanted some cheap desk art, and didn't want something fake/cheesy, so I found a cheap hx35 online and bought it for giggles, as a big, real turbo to look at, never seriously intending to run it, since I've got the 68hta waiting. I expected it to be blown or something, but when I got it, no shaft play whatsoever and It's really clean.

Well, the more I read up about it, the more it looks like the ol' hx might just have some competition to offer the 68 as far as spool speed, and power delivery, but i'm not sure about my setup, which to this date has been built specifically for a quick spooling, relatively high flowing turbo like the 68.

I hate to post something that sounds like benchracing, but I'd like to know if it would be worth it to me to skew off of my pretty much complete 68hta build in order to make the hx35 work.

If I went with the hx35 it would be with the .55 mitsu bep housing and external 02 wastegate, as I'm not so in love with the hx35 12cm ts housing as to buy a t4 ts tubular manifold, at this point in time anyways.

Anyways, here's what I'd be working with

Stock 6-bolt bottom end, balance shaft delete
non-ported head with fp2's and beehives/retainers, +1mm oversized valves, H11 headstuds, oem hg.
fp manifold, recirc tubular 02, 3" dp, test pipe and catback.
wally 255, 850cc injectors
dejon intake, PR 1g FMIC, 3" gm maf, maft, dsmlink v3.
Pump gas only, 92 octane, no water/meth.

Any idea what the differences are going to be with either turbo? enough for me to take the trouble of putting the hx35 on? I'd have to get the O2/wastegate housing, wastegate, and BEP housing, plus odds and ends to make the HX35 work, an extra $400 or so over what I've already spent and the hta68 is pretty much good to go now.

 

[Ppayer38]

The HX35 might will spool a little slower but offer more top end power.
The 68hta is just a 16g on steroids that is awesome for the street.

If you built everything around the 68hta I say bolt it on and use it until you are unhappy and want to upgrade then you will have a HX35 sitting there waiting to go on and just sell the 68hta(won't lose much value I'm sure) to recooperate the cost of everything you have to buy to make the HX35 work...

That's what I'm doing... Running my Evo IX turbo until I'm out of power with it then moving up to the Holset I have sitting around and selling that whole setup unless I get a good deal on a EVO FP GREEN/RED/BLACK

 

[JusMX141]

Two completely different turbos, honestly. A 68HTA is a direct bolt-on with airflow in the mid-to-upper 40's, the HX35 requires some accessories for proper fitment but has been proven to near 60 lb/min with the proper turbine housing and manifold selection.

Sure the HX35 will not perform to it's potential in the bolt-on turbine housing, but it's still going to make more airflow than the 68HTA but provide a much smoother torque curve. The 68HTA will hit like an Evo III 16G due to the 7cm (.49 a/r) turbine housing and tiny TD05H turbine.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

You can't even compare both, that is like trying to ask if you should get a 16g or a GT35r.. Do some research please for your own sake.

 

[silicosys4]

You can't even compare both, that is like trying to ask if you should get a 16g or a GT35r.. Do some research please for your own sake.

Actually, since they are both sitting in my closet right now, Its pretty easy for me to pull them both out and compare them, ...one is a lot bigger than the other.

Seriously though, I know they are two different animals and require two different setups. Obviously. I was asking how much of a difference in spool time and performance I could expect with one over the other, and all the research I have done has indicated they actually do have fairly close spool times, and with the hx35 in the BEP housing, they would also have SIMILAR flow potential. They are a lot closer to each other than a 16g and a 35r. I suppose my question was more oriented towards how each would perform with my mods, particularly my cams.

 

[hollywood_ikr]

Actually, since they are both sitting in my closet right now, Its pretty easy for me to pull them both out and compare them, ...one is a lot bigger than the other.

Seriously though, I know they are two different animals and require two different setups. Obviously. I was asking how much of a difference in spool time and performance I could expect with one over the other, and all the research I have done has indicated they actually do have fairly close spool times, and with the hx35 in the BEP housing, they would also have SIMILAR flow potential. They are a lot closer to each other than a 16g and a 35r. I suppose my question was more oriented towards how each would perform with my mods, particularly my cams.

+1 on everything jusmx141 said.

What I think is the most important question is.. What will the DSM be used for? (Drag, Autocross, street DD, etc..) The answer should help you decide which direction to go.
I am a fan of the Holset and am planning on running it soon, but I'm looking at Drag which the hx35 has more than proven itself useful for.

 

[JusMX141]

I was asking how much of a difference in spool time and performance I could expect with one over the other, and all the research I have done has indicated they actually do have fairly close spool times, and with the hx35 in the BEP housing, they would also have SIMILAR flow potential.

No matter, the HX35 is still going to spool slightly slower than the 68HTA due to a larger turbine wheel and a cast compressor. The HX35 is also going to come on much "smoother" with a more linear torque curve than the 68HTA which should feel as responsive as an Evo III 16G.

It all depends on what you're looking to do with the car. Drag? HX35 for sure...it will be worth piecing together. Auto-x or daily driving? 68HTA would be a better choice.

 

[silicosys4]

Thanks everyone for responding, the car will be used more for DD/street car, with smile factor being much more important to me than strip times and HP numbers...that said, dyno sheets and 1/4 times are fun to wave around if they are impressive enough.
It sounds like the hit of the 68hta will put the biggest grin on my face on the street...
I'll have to save the HX for when I get bored of the 68 or want to go the next step

 

[e85_4g63]

(OP) is your profile up to date currently?

 

[JusMX141]

I'll have to save the HX for when I get bored of the 68 or want to go the next step

The 68HTA is always going to hold it's resale value, even when used....if you got a deal on the HX35 as well, their prices have only been going up lately so you can easily get more than what you paid a year or so down the road. You can't go wrong either way.

Years ago a good friend of mine made a switch from a TD05H 20G to a Frank L5 20G, which is a turbo close to a FP Red for those who don't know. Immediately after installing the L5 we took it for a drive and he wouldn't stop bitching about how much slower the car was...when in reality it wasn't slower at all, he just wasn't feeling the torque hit like it did with the 05H 20G. A trip to the track a week later proved him wrong as the L5 went 5mph faster and shaved nearly 1/2 second off his E.T. at 4psi less boost than he was running on the 20G.

 

[silicosys4]

(OP) is your profile up to date currently?

Profile is up to date, the head isn't on the car and I'm still debating as to what turbo I'm putting on before I get the whole shebang tuned.

 

[camfast]

68HTA, 272 cams and Speed Density with 25-27 psi on e-85. It will turn your car into a beast.

 

[bastarddsm]

I run a 8 blade HX35 in a 12cm FULL TWIN SCROLL setup. Its cool and all, but I advise running the 68hta. My HX35 really doesn't spool all that fast. In 3rd I see 20psi at 4100 and 30 at 5000. I'm making right about 500whp with it tho. It's really a pain in the ass. The compressor housing is so huge its hard to run fans. Then the down pipe is close as hell to the alternator. Of course you can't buy anything for it, so I had to make the manifold, and o2 housing, and fabricated shit ALWAYS cracks. None of the cast t3 mani's are twinscroll, and they put the turbo in a shit spot. I don't know how the bep housing is, but I suspect it don't fit worth a #### either.

The part that really sucks, is it takes sooooo much to make use of the airflow. One 255hp is too small, you need 1600's, a 2g or evo maf is too small, ect..ect..

Where on the 68hta, the car will hit like a 16g, but probably make more top end. AND, you can get away with 1 255, 1000cc injectors and a 2g maf.

I love the power my setup makes, but I'm seriosuly considering stepping down to a green or other 50trim. So I can enjoy driving the car instead of working on it all the time.

 

[dsmboost84]

If you're talkin street definitely go with the 68 hta. You won't be disappointed if tuned properly.

 

[e85_4g63]

I know this is an old(er) thread, but how did things turn out? Did you choose the 68hta or the hx35?

 

[TSimage]

The HTA68 will put down numbers similar to the HX35 and will do so with better boost response.

If you already have the 68 then keep it, its the better turbo all around. If this was a matter of which to get then it'd be a factor that the 68 is 2-3Xs more expensive but at this point in the process its not even a debate.

 

[96WhiteTSi]

Save yourself the headache... get a direct bolt on.. the 68 is an awesome turbo...

 

[jrohner]

I run a 8 blade HX35 in a 12cm FULL TWIN SCROLL setup. Its cool and all, but I advise running the 68hta. My HX35 really doesn't spool all that fast. In 3rd I see 20psi at 4100 and 30 at 5000. I'm making right about 500whp with it tho. It's really a pain in the ass. The compressor housing is so huge its hard to run fans. Then the down pipe is close as hell to the alternator. Of course you can't buy anything for it, so I had to make the manifold, and o2 housing, and fabricated shit ALWAYS cracks. None of the cast t3 mani's are twinscroll, and they put the turbo in a shit spot. I don't know how the bep housing is, but I suspect it don't fit worth a #### either.

The part that really sucks, is it takes sooooo much to make use of the airflow. One 255hp is too small, you need 1600's, a 2g or evo maf is too small, ect..ect..

Where on the 68hta, the car will hit like a 16g, but probably make more top end. AND, you can get away with 1 255, 1000cc injectors and a 2g maf.

I love the power my setup makes, but I'm seriosuly considering stepping down to a green or other 50trim. So I can enjoy driving the car instead of working on it all the time.

Mine spooled faster than that with a cheapo ebay open manifold & wastegate; seems like you have a wastegate leak or something. I was at about 475awhp/440torque with 850cc injectors and 2g MAF.