Hey, I'm new here.

[Tanro]

Its 4g63.... Seriously dude. After 2nd reading of this thread it begining to seem like you are way in over your head, cant read, or just trolling.

4g63... Comes in 3 basic variety's

You got your 89-91 6bolt.

You got 92-99 dsm 7 bolt.

You got your EVO IV and newer 7 bolt which is a reversed configuration, meaning it basically is backwards and will not be a direct swap.

Eagle Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dhan]

im starting to believe this kid is not kid, but ludachris himself, me might have created a new account to pretend to be a n00b and have fun, (just jk) but it makes me laugh though

This is exactly what I thought about halfway through this thread. Spooky

 

[misterjose]

okay you wanted unique right here you go. you will be the only one in the America to drive one. if someone has one of these you will most likely never meet that person.

 

[c0reyl]

Its 4g63.... Seriously dude. After 2nd reading of this thread it begining to seem like you are way in over your head, cant read, or just trolling.

4g63... Comes in 3 basic variety's

You got your 89-91 6bolt.

You got 92-99 dsm 7 bolt.

You got your EVO IV and newer 7 bolt which is a reversed configuration, meaning it basically is backwards and will not be a direct swap.

Eagle Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So basically the EVO 4 motor is exactly the same as a 93 DSM Eclipse GSX turbo AWD, which is the same as the G2 96-99 Eclipse 2L turbo engine block (Engine block alone and similar components)?

Engine block alone, they are the same exact or very similar engine blocks, just in a reversed configuration?

I'm assuming ANY 93 DSM turbo AWD rebuilt the same way as ANY EVO 4 engine will get the same power and roughly the same speed in the car?

Meaning... I shoul dbe looking to buy any wrecked or cheap as possible perfectly running AWD DSM 2L Turbo from 1993-1999 and swap the internals and do an AWD conversion on my car, then work on rebuilding the engine with better internals and turbo the hell out of it?

And btw, a week ago, I knew next to nothing about DSM's other than a tiny bit about the 96 Eclipse, Like a tid bit, and nearly nothing about cars. I had assumed That car upgrading would be like rocket science and I wouldn't even be intelligent enough to rebuild the cars.

 

[Tyeler18]

This thread is full of failure. And the OP can't seem to understand sarcasm at all.

 

[c0reyl]

This thread is full of failure. And the OP can't seem to understand sarcasm at all.

Ok, complain to the mods and get me banned?

another question, I'm guessing 6 bolt, 7 bolt is how many bolts it takes to attach the dual overhead cam to the engine block?

yes, I have retarded amounts to learn everywhere, is this forum going to shun me away and assume I'm a retard, basically at this point is there any point of me posting on this forum at this time?

 

[Dhan]

Ok, complain to the mods and get me banned?

another question, I'm guessing 6 bolt, 7 bolt is how many bolts it takes to attach the dual overhead cam to the engine block?

yes, I have retarded amounts to learn everywhere, is this forum going to shun me away and assume I'm a retard, basically at this point is there any point of me posting on this forum at this time?

Lord oh mighty! We'll need to stick you in DSM remedial class.

6 and 7 bolts is the number of bolts that hold the flywheel in place.

 

[c0reyl]

Lord oh mighty! We'll need to stick you in DSM remedial class.

6 and 7 bolts is the number of bolts that hold the flywheel in place.

, where most of you have been doing auto stuff for years, I have been doing it for, not at all aside from helping my step dad hold wrenches while he fixes WWII airplanes, motorcycles, cars, trucks....

I just started looking online like 3 days ago about actual auto stuff and have been absorbing what I have read.

 

[Dhan]

I know you're new to the DSM scene and automotive mechanics as a whole. I learned a lot from my father and he helped jump start my education in mechanics too.

I think a lot of the frustration shown by some members here is stemming from how often "young guns" come marching in here asking all these questions that have already been answered dozens and dozens of times.

Please, for the sake of not losing your enthusiasm, look to the SEARCH button at the top of the screen and track down your own answers. Also, read up on all the stickies posted throughout the site to learn even more.

Then, study and read over as many articles as you can stand on this site......VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions

vfaq is like a DSM bible to me.

It seems so many younger people are unwilling to just dig a little and do some research on their own.

 

[wkmitsu]

So basically the EVO 4 motor is exactly the same as a 93 DSM Eclipse GSX turbo AWD, which is the same as the G2 96-99 Eclipse 2L turbo engine block (Engine block alone and similar components)?

Engine block alone, they are the same exact or very similar engine blocks, just in a reversed configuration?

I'm assuming ANY 93 DSM turbo AWD rebuilt the same way as ANY EVO 4 engine will get the same power and roughly the same speed in the car?

Meaning... I shoul dbe looking to buy any wrecked or cheap as possible perfectly running AWD DSM 2L Turbo from 1993-1999 and swap the internals and do an AWD conversion on my car, then work on rebuilding the engine with better internals and turbo the hell out of it?

And btw, a week ago, I knew next to nothing about DSM's other than a tiny bit about the 96 Eclipse, Like a tid bit, and nearly nothing about cars. I had assumed That car upgrading would be like rocket science and I wouldn't even be intelligent enough to rebuild the cars.

Ok lets straighten some things out. There are two different 4G63s found in DSMs, the 6 bolt (90-92), and 7 bolt (93-99) you can put any of these motors in your car, you don't need to find a 93 specifically. 90-94 are 1G cars, 95-99 are 2G cars. The EVOs that had motors identical to a DSM are the EVOs I-III. The EVOs IV-IX have an essentially reversed version of the DSM 4G63 and will not work in a DSM without extensive fabrication and modification. This has been told to you by a few different people a couple of times now.

I already told you that the DSM 4G63 has the same potential as any EVO 4G63.

You wouldn't be rebuilding your 1.8 with 4G63 internals, you would be replacing the whole motor...

How many times do I need to tell you that you can't do an AWD conversion with that 1G? It just isn't going to happen, do you have any idea what that swap entails?

You still only know next to nothing about DSMs.

 

[Tanro]

The 6 bolt 7 bolt thing is the number of bolts used to hold the flywheel on the crank, 6 bolt engines are preferred.

Evo 1-3 (I-III) Are similar to a dsm. 4-9 (IV-IX) are still 4g63. But they are ass backwards.

The engine is physically different. On the DSM Engine the intake and transmission are on the passenger side. Evo 4 and newer its on the driver's side.


Your just not going to convert a 1g NT DSM to AWD. It wont happen give up on that one.

It can be done in a 2g because the chassis is different. But, a 1g it just won't allow it it with out a several thousand dollars worth of chassis modification.

 

[c0reyl]

Ok lets straighten some things out. There are two different 4G63s found in DSMs, the 6 bolt (90-92), and 7 bolt (93-99) you can put any of these motors in your car, you don't need to find a 93 specifically. 90-94 are 1G cars, 95-99 are 2G cars. The EVOs that had motors identical to a DSM are the EVOs I-III. The EVOs IV-IX have an essentially reversed version of the DSM 4G63 and will not work in a DSM without extensive fabrication and modification. This has been told to you by a few different people a couple of times now.

I already told you that the DSM 4G63 has the same potential as any EVO 4G63.

You wouldn't be rebuilding your 1.8 with 4G63 internals, you would be replacing the whole motor...

How many times do I need to tell you that you can't do an AWD conversion with that 1G? It just isn't going to happen, do you have any idea what that swap entails?

You still only know next to nothing about DSMs.

I never intended to rebuild my 1.8L engine. I know I know next to nothing about DSM's and cars in general.

I had assumed that an AWD conversion would entail buying a cheap AWD eclipse GSX 2L turbo car with a messed upbody or interior or something, then swapping out parts from that car to my car, but I'm not sure entirely how much of the car I'd need to swap out other than nearly everything in the hood, the tranny.

I have been asking these questions because I've literally been at my computer for 20 seconds at a time a few times a day before i get up and sleep. I don't have all day to look at information on this at the moment, however i can quickly check replies to this thread on my iphone.

The 6 bolt 7 bolt thing is the number of bolts used to hold the flywheel on the crank, 6 bolt engines are preferred.

Evo 1-3 (I-III) Are similar to a dsm. 4-9 (IV-IX) are still 4g63. But they are ass backwards.

The engine is physically different. On the DSM Engine the intake and transmission are on the passenger side. Evo 4 and newer its on the driver's side.


Your just not going to convert a 1g NT DSM to AWD. It wont happen give up on that one.

It can be done in a 2g because the chassis is different. But, a 1g it just won't allow it it with out a several thousand dollars worth of chassis modification.

Does this make my DSM worthless and not have the ability to achieve a 10 second time, not being AWD?


EDIT:

also, why are 6 bolt engines preferred?

 

[wkmitsu]

I never intended to rebuild my 1.8L engine. I know I know next to nothing about DSM's and cars in general.

I had assumed that an AWD conversion would entail buying a cheap AWD eclipse GSX 2L turbo car with a messed upbody or interior or something, then swapping out parts from that car to my car, but I'm not sure entirely how much of the car I'd need to swap out other than nearly everything in the hood, the tranny.

I have been asking these questions because I've literally been at my computer for 20 seconds at a time a few times a day before i get up and sleep. I don't have all day to look at information on this at the moment, however i can quickly check replies to this thread on my iphone.

Well I assumed that you meant that you wanted to rebuild your 1.8 since you kept talking about swapping internals from the engine you get from a donor car.

The AWD conversion for a 1G requires a bit more than just bolting up AWD parts from a donor car (and there's a few more parts than just the transmission, gas tank is different, rear subframe, driveshaft, etc.). It requires extensive fabrication and modification of the unibody.

also, why are 6 bolt engines preferred?

6 bolt engines are sometimes preferred because of they are much less likely to suffer from crankwalk than the 7 bolt motors. They also came with slightly tougher internals allowing them to hold more power stock.

Does this make my DSM worthless and not have the ability to achieve a 10 second time, not being AWD?

Not impossible and not worthless, just more difficult.

 

[c0reyl]

Well I assumed that you meant that you wanted to rebuild your 1.8 since you kept talking about swapping internals from the engine you get from a donor car.

The AWD conversion for a 1G requires a bit more than just bolting up AWD parts from a donor car (and there's a few more parts than just the transmission, gas tank is different, rear subframe, driveshaft, etc.). It requires extensive fabrication and modification of the unibody.



6 bolt engines are sometimes preferred because of they are much less likely to suffer from crankwalk than the 7 bolt motors. They also came with slightly tougher internals allowing them to hold more power stock.



Not impossible and not worthless, just more difficult.

Ok, thank's. That's pretty awesome help in one reply.

So you would not recommend an AWD conversion from a donor car, with AWD, using a 2L turbo DSM 4G63 6 bolt (I guess) motor with new tranny, hood internals and everything else i need going into my 1.8L car, scrapping my useless parts, and the useless parts from the donar car, then after that, start turboing the hell out of it, trying to make it a 10 second car?

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Why are you focusing on running 10s or better and worrying how much it cost when you don't even have a license yet?

I understand your enthusiasm but DSMs are not RC cars you cant just throw in some parts and think its going to be fast. We have all been New at this at one point or another and we are not trying to kill you dreams but we want to help a POTENTIAL DSMER from wasting money (from your parents) for something that's not going to be what you want in the end and be another statistic (People who are ignorant to dsms , Tear them up and say they are the worst cars on the planet because you bit of more than you could chew.

Its been said about 30 times get a GST or gsx as a better platform to begin on you can still learn and grow from having such cars because there is way more to this than just throwing some GO FAST parts on it !


Gst or FWDs are not worthless and can get into the 10s but that's a different animal suspension and tires play a huge roll in fwds . But YOU should not worry about running 10s or even running at the track period until you do some reSEARCH , get a drivers license get a GST or GSX , and Do all required preventative maintenance FIRST.

AGAIN I cant stress this enough DONT be a statistic ( person that gets a dsm , never checks oil or does maintenance , thinks they can race every thing on the street engine blows then gets a honda and gives dsms a bad name)

Other than that Welcome to dsmtuners.

PS. body kits = SUPER FAIL

 

[95gsttsi]

u dont have to get a 6 bolt the only big difference is the rods are weaker in the 7bolt! plus 6 bolts have a weaker head than the 7bolt. buying stronger rods will eliminate the problem. 7 bolts are cheaper than 6 bolts plus u could always frankenstein them! 6bolt internals in a 7 bolt! if u want 10seconds man u got a big build just go buy a blown 7 bolt for cheap and build it! u can do it with a fwd. just make sure u get lsd so both tires spin, u dont wann be pullin to the right everytime u take off! these cars are pretty simple once u get the feel for it! i bought a doner car and it didnt take long b4 it had a motor and everything it needed. its an easy build but u just gotta spend the cash.

 

[c0reyl]

u dont have to get a 6 bolt the only big difference is the rods are weaker in the 7bolt! plus 6 bolts have a weaker head than the 7bolt. buying stronger rods will eliminate the problem. 7 bolts are cheaper than 6 bolts plus u could always frankenstein them! 6bolt internals in a 7 bolt! if u want 10seconds man u got a big build just go buy a blown 7 bolt for cheap and build it! u can do it with a fwd. just make sure u get lsd so both tires spin, u dont wann be pullin to the right everytime u take off! these cars are pretty simple once u get the feel for it! i bought a doner car and it didnt take long b4 it had a motor and everything it needed. its an easy build but u just gotta spend the cash.

thanks for that advice.

Why are you focusing on running 10s or better and worrying how much it cost when you don't even have a license yet?

I understand your enthusiasm but DSMs are not RC cars you cant just throw in some parts and think its going to be fast. We have all been New at this at one point or another and we are not trying to kill you dreams but we want to help a POTENTIAL DSMER from wasting money (from your parents) for something that's not going to be what you want in the end and be another statistic (People who are ignorant to dsms , Tear them up and say they are the worst cars on the planet because you bit of more than you could chew.

Its been said about 30 times get a GST or gsx as a better platform to begin on you can still learn and grow from having such cars because there is way more to this than just throwing some GO FAST parts on it !


Gst or FWDs are not worthless and can get into the 10s but that's a different animal suspension and tires play a huge roll in fwds . But YOU should not worry about running 10s or even running at the track period until you do some reSEARCH , get a drivers license get a GST or GSX , and Do all required preventative maintenance FIRST.

AGAIN I cant stress this enough DONT be a statistic ( person that gets a dsm , never checks oil or does maintenance , thinks they can race every thing on the street engine blows then gets a honda and gives dsms a bad name)

Other than that Welcome to dsmtuners.

PS. body kits = SUPER FAIL

I'm not focusing on getting a 10 second time right away. I'm focusing on rebuilding it, having parts in it with that potential. There's no way in hell I'd want to just jump in a 10 second car and floor it right now, even if I'd want to build it.

I would literally jump at the chance to build a 10 second car right now, and have a friend or family member do the testing for me, without me ever flooring it, right now. I Want that potential, even if I'm scared shitless to floor it in one.

I don't like honda's at all, and wasnt even considering much into tuners. I hate the stereotypical ricer as much as the next guy on this forum. Kids with hondas, who are just putting in turbo chargers and killing their engines are retards. I only considered even upgrading this car after doing lots of googling into seeing how fast a 2 liter car can get in the first place. I just want my car to have potential for 10 second times, but do not want to waste money on one thing, needing to to do another, re doing everything later.

this is why I say what I'm saying.

 

[95gsttsi]

well a 10second goal is good n all but first u gotta understand how much hp u need to do that. my buddy has a well built 6bolt and has 690whp and runs high 10's low 11's but breaks things when he does it. ut talking about a full drag car something u drive on the weekends nothing u would daily drive yeah some people do but u gotta start off small a 4g63 is stock 210hp doesnt take much to achieve 300hp without a rebuild once u break 350 or more u need to build the motor. ## talking about alot of money. i just got done pricing my 400hp build and im already looking at 2-3grand. my buddy has put 10k into a motor and man its hell of a ride but, money plays a big role and understanding what your doing. i know my motor up and down onething goes wrong i know what it is and its fixed. gong from a naturally aspirated motor to a turbo takes alot of prep the swap of the wire haness u need a turbo computer. its just a night mare. sell what u have and get an all stock turbo dsm that some old lady drove for years. ull be better off unless u have the money and time its not worth it! ive been down that road with honda's i bought my dsm knowing it was a turbo car. but i had a wire harness nightmare. gtake the easy road bud. within a couple months ull know enough to get ya going. but ## 10 sec car wont be too reliable unless u build it right. cimotorsports.com has alot of what ull be looking for. engine swaps suck! i was gonna do a 6bolt build n swap till i learned about the weak rod difference. trust us we know what we are talking about! other than that life is better with a dsm!

 

[c0reyl]

well a 10second goal is good n all but first u gotta understand how much hp u need to do that. my buddy has a well built 6bolt and has 690whp and runs high 10's low 11's but breaks things when he does it. ut talking about a full drag car something u drive on the weekends nothing u would daily drive yeah some people do but u gotta start off small a 4g63 is stock 210hp doesnt take much to achieve 300hp without a rebuild once u break 350 or more u need to build the motor. ## talking about alot of money. i just got done pricing my 400hp build and im already looking at 2-3grand. my buddy has put 10k into a motor and man its hell of a ride but, money plays a big role and understanding what your doing. i know my motor up and down onething goes wrong i know what it is and its fixed. gong from a naturally aspirated motor to a turbo takes alot of prep the swap of the wire haness u need a turbo computer. its just a night mare. sell what u have and get an all stock turbo dsm that some old lady drove for years. ull be better off unless u have the money and time its not worth it! ive been down that road with honda's i bought my dsm knowing it was a turbo car. but i had a wire harness nightmare. gtake the easy road bud. within a couple months ull know enough to get ya going. but ## 10 sec car wont be too reliable unless u build it right. cimotorsports.com has alot of what ull be looking for. engine swaps suck! i was gonna do a 6bolt build n swap till i learned about the weak rod difference. trust us we know what we are talking about! other than that life is better with a dsm!

I DEFINITELY have the time, and Iv'e never spent money on a car, yet i pretty much own two cars. My Buick Riviera will be my daily driver while i fix up and tune the DSM. I am literally willing to spend all year fixing that DSM up here and there, not even driving it yet to have it damn nice. You forget, I'm 19, and wouldnt think of buying a brand new car.

It was brought to my attention that just out of turboing my GM crate engine 3800 series II, I can get 400 horsepower out of it without too much trouble, the motor aparently can take 700whp with rebuilding. I am not even inclined to push 700whp into that thing for a few reasons:



I'd rather spend time making the DSM better
Money as well is better spent ont he DSM
I'd take it to 400whp without too much hassle, wouldn't mind.
The car is a freaking boat. no point in doing so.


That being said, I'm probably going to do minimal work on the Rivvy and upgrade the hell out of my DSM for as long as it takes to get a damn good car out of it. I don't HAVE to have a 10 second time and that's why I asked second times to price ratio's someone said I could get 10 seconds with a couple grand, I was skeptical. Like I said, my step dad is a master mechanic, and I'm hitting up this forum for general guidance to make his life a little easier in that regard. He will basically help me every step of the way I need it.


BTW, what times do you get with 400 WHP in your hood?

 

[95gsttsi]

ive seen some 12's but theres nothing wrong with that. i mean yeah u can pull up to the line next to a v8 maro and smoke it no problem. its amazing what these cars can do. but if he wants to tak on the challenge it will be a long road. i mean a 7 bolt runs a t25 stock 13psi is pushing it but its not pratical. maybe big 16G. but if u want 10's u want a ball bearing gt35. plus ## gonna need a turbo tranny. what u need to do first is get the motor and tranny. u can get race blocks but ull spend more money on just the block than your build. goto a junk yard and find a turbo 1g most wont have the motor pull the wire harness very simple takes about 20mins to an hour and is two piece. ## gonna have to pull the harness from the dash as well. but once u get the motor and tranny buy the lsd limited slip differential. everything will take awhile, but be around and help with the build of the motor so u can understand everything. im 20 ive had many cars but the dsm was the first ground up build. honestly man i would worry too much about what times your gonna run id be more worried about getting it up and going and what parts u need and getting it on a dyno. then worry about track time even if u dont get a 10 u can alway add more things. and tune it out. aswell as if its gonna be mostly for the track ## gonna have to strip the interior doen too and build a cage. ull get there but worry about the basics first it's really the only way to get it done. make a list of everything u need.

 

[98DiamondStar]

Here are a few links, before you buy anything for your 1g N/T you need to buy these. READ them cover to cover VIGOROUSLY, and ABSORB. I read these books before ever posting on tuners. And some of my first posts were actually Tech related, helping others. Tuners is an amazing website for getting tidbits of information here and there, and definantly finding great people who are willing to go out of their way to help you out. But in your case, you havn't been in the DSM scene long enough to compute the advice you are being given. So thats my 2 cents worth, here are the links.

Amazon.com: How to Build Max-Performance Mitsubishi 4G63t Engines (S-A Design) (Performance How-To) (9781932494624): Robert Bowen: Books This book is "ok" it does have good information, it was the first book i read cover to cover 2 or 3 times, and I picked up new information each time.

Amazon.com: Mitsubishi & Diamond Star Performance TuningHP1496: A Hands-On Guide for Building the Ultimate High-Performance Mitsubishi Eclipse,Eagle Talon or Plymouth Laser, 1990-1999 Models (9781557884961): Keith Buglewicz: Books This book is truly a WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE. Some of the biggest names known to DSM history are constantly mentioned in this book, and it will lead you through several different build paths, ranging by how much horsepower your goal is set at.

Amazon.com: Mitsubishi: Eclipse 1990-98 (Chilton's Total Car Care Repair Manual) (9780801989575): The Nichols/Chilton Editors: Books This one is a given. If you havn't united a wrench with a DSM. This is your new bible.

And last, but not least visit the VFAQ, on dsmtuners. Someone previously mentioned to you to read through all the stickied items on this website, they didn't put all this information on here because they were bored. Even today, i have it in my favorites, and I read through it like scripture. Please, Take the time to read this, even if it takes 5 years out of your 6 years untill you get your brand new STOCK vehicle, It will save you a lot of wondering while your turning wrenches with your old man in the garage.
I hope you take this post into consideration - 98Diamondstar.

 

[richard33]

seriously, why is this kid getting spoon fed on such a bad idea? Stop asking dumb questions! All these questions you are asking have been answered a million times. Just search the forums.
You want to know how much money its gonna take you to run 10's in your FWD 1g? 15,000$. You want to know the chances of that happening? 0%

 

[blackhawkgsx]

seriously, why is this kid getting spoon fed on such a bad idea? Stop asking dumb questions! All these questions you are asking have been answered a million times. Just search the forums.
You want to know how much money its gonna take you to run 10's in your FWD 1g? 15,000$. You want to know the chances of that happening? 0%

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dsmrollerz90]

This thread is a joke, He's on the wrong forum. If he's thinking 10k for 10's, he needs a honda.

 

[98DiamondStar]

At this point, theres been 3 pages of what you guys have just said, so if your not going to post anything helpfull, just close out of this thread. We were all new at somepoint in time, and had goals to run that 10 or lower. He's just STARTING to learn about automotive mechanics, and he's starting with DSM with a clean slate.