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TRE MaxLock rear LSD

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ACM

20+ Year Contributor
679
56
Dec 11, 2002
Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts
This is a seperate post because I think this is one of the biggest improvements I've ever made to the car (aside from Fedja's Ankeny Penske 8760s). It might seem odd to be posting about an LSD in the Handling forum, but believe me, that's where this belongs. LSDs are critical to a well-handling car, and they are at least as important as as any other system when it comes to the behaviour and feel of the car.

In 2002 or so I switched from the OEM VC rear LSD, to a Japanese clutch plate LSD. The improvement was dramatic, we could get into the throttle so hard, so early in the turn compared to the VC, the times tumbled. The only problem was that it wasn't very consistent. Then I switched to 285/30.18 race tyres and I was tearing the diff out of the car every month to reshim and reorder the plates - it was a nightmare, I was driving a different car every event, I never knew how the car would behave from one event to the next, the grip of the 285s just completely overpowered the LSD and the wear rate went through the roof.

I drove a few Evos with TRE's MaxLock service over the last year and was very impressed with how well it worked, so I sent my rear diff to TRE last winter to get an Evo III diff installed with the MaxLock upgrade. I just finished a (lightweight) and all I can say is WOW ! This thing delivered everything my previous LSD promised but failed. The car has been 100% consistent the entire season, something never achieved with the other LSD, and NO wheelspin. None, nothing whatsoever. Yes, one might expect that to be the case - but this is the first time that's actually been true.

If you don't have this in your car you're at least half a second behind on a 60 second run, no matter what other diff you might have in the car. Chances are that unless your LSD is freshly rebuilt, you're a lot more than half a second behind ! I'm sure this remains the case on a road course as well. It's at least as big an improvement as the 35:65 Cusco centre diff was, and it's a third of the price.
 
The evo guys also have huge things to say about upgrading the rear diff. The factory LSD setting just isnt aggressive enough and needs to be sent off to Shep or TRE to get tightened up. All the sudden cars go from having horrible understeer on corner exit to being able to throttle steer out of corners.

I can definitely feel the need in my car. With 275s and the front quaife I can really feel the inside rear spin out of corners. Granted I have pretty decent power for an autocross car, but its definitely a must upgrade item when my co-driver takes over the car.
 
ACM what do you drive?

Might want to fill out your profile for that, it's kinda funny though, since you've been a member since 2002.

Also, what ''Japanese clutch type LSD'' gave you such an issue?
 
Hah, if you don't know then you ain't been around long enough ;)
 
Hah, if you don't know then you ain't been around long enough ;)

Experience > Register date.

Actually, I can take a clean shot at this if he's saying 35:65 cusco, Evo 3 LSD and 285/30/18's it must be a DSM and a 2G/awd I just felt like seeing him say it himself.

An lsd topic shouldn't be odd in the handling section.

LSD questions and handling aren't strangers to each other, you can also find quite a bit of INFO here. Rear Diff Options - Power Oversteer Found Here - Page 11 - evolutionm.net
 
My profile does actually say "Talon TSi AWD" ?

Anyway, the car is prepped for national-level SCCA Solo 2, running in E Street Prepared. I omitted the name of the "Japanese clutch plate LSD" source because it's not clear to me that there is any inherent weakness in their product, it simply could not perform under the admittedly extreme conditions I subjected it to. Since the company has been supplying clutch LSDs for decades it seems unlikely they would not merely survive, but positively prosper all these years if their product was inferior.
 
My profile does actually say "Talon TSi AWD" ?

Anyway, the car is prepped for national-level SCCA Solo 2, running in E Street Prepared. I omitted the name of the "Japanese clutch plate LSD" source because it's not clear to me that there is any inherent weakness in their product, it simply could not perform under the admittedly extreme conditions I subjected it to. Since the company has been supplying clutch LSDs for decades it seems unlikely they would not merely survive, but positively prosper all these years if their product was inferior.

Well that information could save other people money from that I personally think you should n't omit. Also, I don't see an avatar or car listed under your name?

Well in any case I want to know since I'm replacing my rear diff so I'd appreciate it if you PMed me.
 
Hmm, so this would be a good upgrade for me in the snow hey?
I DD my car in winter, but when it snows I'm the only one out on the streets!
I hate the wicked understeer I get!
 
What is the final gear ratio for this thing? Stock? As in, is this a bolt on affair? My rear VS diff is pretty much toasted at this point. It needs to be shimmed so badly. Decel noise is painful. If this is bolt on, I might just buy one and rid myself of the noise!
 
What is the final gear ratio for this thing? Stock? As in, is this a bolt on affair? My rear VS diff is pretty much toasted at this point. It needs to be shimmed so badly. Decel noise is painful. If this is bolt on, I might just buy one and rid myself of the noise!

The gear ratio is whatever you start out with. The Evo III LSD upgrade is a service, in that you send your rear diff assembly to Jon, he strips it down and rebuilds it with the Evo III LSD in place of whatever diff that's in the housing. The whole thing gets reshimmed, rebuilt etc - here's the link :
GENUINE MITSUBISHI TRANSMISSION PARTS

The Max Lock is a separate upgrade that Jon does; I don't know what is done to the LSD, but it works incredibly well. I don't see a listing for the Max-Lock mod to the 2G setup, only as an individual service for an Evo rear end, and the price includes all the rebuild/reshim/bearings/seals etc that is included in the Evo III, so I assume it would be quite a bit cheaper than the quoted Evo price - here's the link :
GENUINE MITSUBISHI TRANSMISSION PARTS

I did my upgrade piecemeal and bass ackwards, so I don't know if my cost is representative if you went about the rebuild intelligently :coy: However I can certainly find out and post it.

Charles
 
For the complete Evo III LSD install and Max-Lock upgrade the cost is around $1150 all told.

Ugh, I paid more than that for my first clutch LSD almost 10 years ago - what's the maxim, do it once, do it right, I believe ? :ohdamn:
 
Wow, I guess Jon's got a special going :
GENUINE MITSUBISHI TRANSMISSION PARTS

Can't even buy a bare Cusco LSD in a box for that price.

Hmmm, If I swap my VC and axles into Katy's car, stuff her non-VC setup into mine, I think I can convince myself to buy another

No really sweetheart, I'm just thinking of you, honest, you always wanted the rear LSD, and since we both benefit it can come out of the house budget, not my race funding. :D

Yeah sure - coz that'll work, right ?
 
I don't have TRE's MaxLock rear LSD, but I do have EVO8 LSD internals in my rear diff and the difference from the OEM VC LSD is night and day. Before the upgrade, I'd get massive inside-rear wheel spin coming out of a tight turn for a good 2 seconds before the VC would lock up. Now it locks up almost immediately and all but eliminated rear wheel spin.

The service was performed by Shep at a cost of $630 including two EVO8 inner cups. At some point I plan to send it to TRE for the MaxLock treatment.
 
I don't have TRE's MaxLock rear LSD, but I do have EVO8 LSD internals in my rear diff and the difference from the OEM VC LSD is night and day. Before the upgrade, I'd get massive inside-rear wheel spin coming out of a tight turn for a good 2 seconds before the VC would lock up. Now it locks up almost immediately and all but eliminated rear wheel spin.

The service was performed by Shep at a cost of $630 including two EVO8 inner cups. At some point I plan to send it to TRE for the MaxLock treatment.

What is necessary to install an evo 8 internals to a 1st or 2nd gen diff?
thanks Rick
 
I bought mine 2nd hand, so I'm not sure exactly. I believe the previous owner simply shipped his 2G LSD diff to Shep and they took care of the rest. You'd have to contact sheptrans.com for details.
 
Holy hell that upgrade is cheap!

I already have an Evo 3 clutch-type rear diff in the car, and will have to talk to Jon regarding the friction upgrade!

I wonder if he works on upgrades for the Evo 3 clutch-type front diff as well, as this is the diff I am currently running with my 4-spider setup.

I am trying for 1.3-second 60's and if this is beneficial, I might just have to go for it!
 
What is necessary to install an evo 8 internals to a 1st or 2nd gen diff?
thanks Rick


According to Jon the Evo 8 LSD is identical to the Evo 3, either LSD can be installed into an LSD or non-LSD rear housing.

I found out the hard way that the non-LSD rear housing is a slightly different shape than the LSD equivalent, just enough that you can't install the OEM VC LSD parts into a non-LSD housing, just in case anyone wants to try this :)

While we're at it, it's worth revisiting axles combinations as well. The axle shafts have different inboard splines, depending on whether they have LSD or non-LSD inboard joints - you cannot replace an LSD inner with a non-LSD inner - the ball carrier (whatever it's called) has different different splines, plus it also has different diameter balls, and they won't fit the different cups.

What this means is that if you replace your non-LSD rear diff with an Evo/Cusco/Kaaz clutch diff, you're good to go, your axles and joints work perfectly.

If you replace a VC LSD rear end you will need either a pair of non-LSD DSM axles, or a pair of Evo 3-9 inner joint assemblies for both VC LSD axles. The short VC LSD inner joint looks like it will work, but in actual fact it is too short, only half of the splines are engaged. The splines will shear off after about half a season of ProSolo events - I have the remains to prove it.

Hope this helps.
 
Here are some pics of my 2G rear diff with EVO8 internals & inner cups, plus DSS axles:

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Sweet, I'll be hitting Jon up at TRE for this MaxLock service on my non LSD rear diff.
What do you guys do about the center diff for road racing, or auto-x?
Are the Quaife center diffs any good?
My transmission will be built with a front Quaife ATB diff for sure.
 
Sweet, I'll be hitting Jon up at TRE for this MaxLock service on my non LSD rear diff.
What do you guys do about the center diff for road racing, or auto-x?
Are the Quaife center diffs any good?
My transmission will be built with a front Quaife ATB diff for sure.

Everything I have read says the Quaife center diff is guaranteed to blow up. It's not maybe it's just how soon. I'm leaning toward the Tarmac for my center at the moment.
 
Yeah, I read that too.
I'm really just getting into road racing.
The Quaife is definitely going in the front diff.

What I really want to hear more about is this Tarmac Center Diff...?

Who has experience with that puppy and a locked up rear end?
 
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