Pre-turbo setup. Dual .75gph @ 250psi

[forcefed86]

Just thought I'd show you all what the spray pattern looks like. I'm hoping the by spraying them into one another so closely it will help atomization. Doubt it will be an issue with the tiny nozzles and high pressure though.

Installed on a 93 Eagle Talon TSI E316G turbo 30+ lbs...

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You can see the motor is out flowing the turbo in the upper rpm's as the boost will fall down to around 22 by 7100rpm. I think I've pushed this turbo as far as it's gonna go!

 

[endeffect0]

Excellent pics and vids. I love to see the needle buried on a 30psi gauge. I think its fair to say your well off of the compressor map now.


But you can just post that and run away!!! I want more!


How far away from the pump is your nozzles?
have you considered running a check valve or solenoid to prevent the beginning and ending squirt of water.
did you notice any changes in performance, or even better did you datalog any?
how many LBS/min is the turbo kicking out now...


keep it coming.

 

[forcefed86]

Excellent pics and vids. I love to see the needle buried on a 30psi gauge. I think its fair to say your well off of the compressor map now.


But you can just post that and run away!!! I want more!


How far away from the pump is your nozzles?
have you considered running a check valve or solenoid to prevent the beginning and ending squirt of water.
did you notice any changes in performance, or even better did you datalog any?
how many LBS/min is the turbo kicking out now...


keep it coming.

Honestly I don't have much more info for you. I can't believe the performance I'm getting out of this car for the tiny amount of money I have invested! This is my only vehicle other than my "race" car. So I don't have any kind of after market fuel management to tell me LBS/min etc... Just a chip, SAFC, and a WB02. Told myself I wasn't going to go mod crazy on this one. I do have a PALM pilot somewhere with MMCD on it I used to tune in the e30. I could grab a log with that I suppose. (I'd have to figure out how, I'm new to the DSM world)

I've probably got a good 5 feet of hose between the pump and the nozzles.

I think the initial trickle is due to my shaky hands jumping the pressure switch lead with a paperclip! I'm not worried about the small amount that trickles out afterwords at the moment. I don't think it's enough to really damage anything. Esp with 100% meth.

The reason I don't have a check valve is I'd have to buy 2 to do it properly. At $30 each plus shipping that's just not what this car is all about. I've got $3500 in this car total, and it's all paid off. I plan on just driving it at this point. Saving my pennies for broken parts!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

You will probably find you can not only hold more boost but make more power, too, with an upgraded intake pipe. I'd say you're flowing enough to see a worthwhile difference.

I realize that a pipe may cost you $30 (or far more) and that it won't be as easy to setup your nozzles, but I do believe there are gains to be made.

 

[forcefed86]

I've had my eye on one of the short red 1g to 2g maf dejon intakes. Just waiting for a nice used one to pop up.

I did notice the ebay knock off pipes but I believe I'll have space issues with that setup. By the time I cut it and fabed it to fit I'd rather just have the dejon style.

 

[endeffect0]

Definitely grad a new intake pipe. not only will you see a benefit in hp and response time, but you get that nice turbo sound under boost a bit more. i have a used Dejon on my 2g. it wasnt 30$, but i still think its worth it.

do us all a favor, when you take the intake off to replace it or whatever the excuse is the next time you do; take a picture of the blades on your turbo. that way a year later or when ever you next decide to do it again you can have something to compare the wear on the wear on the blades with. few people have bothered to do this with their daily driven pre turbo meth injected cars... maybe because their are so few people with the setup. but either way it would be good to put it all to rest.

i have a suspicion that you may be able to pick up check valves in large hardware store. check your local home depot or the like next time your out. could be a cheap solution to prevent siphoning.

 

[99gst_racer]

I second the motion for check valves. That trickle that follows the pump shutting off can be detrimental to your compressor wheel. If those large droplets roll into the compressor cover, then can reek havoc on the outside tips of the compressor wheel.

I firmly believe that most pre-compressor injection failures have been due to poor nozzle location that lead to very poorly atomized fluid entering the compressor cover. A lack of a check valve can cause the same issues. Everytime is shuts off, you will get a small trickle of unatomized fluid. The only question is, will it cause any damage over time? A $30 check valve to save a $500 turbo. It's not a gamble that I'd be willing to take.

Kudos on the set-up though. My 250 psi pump should show up today. I have 5 different nozzle sizes that I plan to experiment with on the dyno. Should be interesting to see what kind of gains we can pick up with pre-compressor injection.

do us all a favor, when you take the intake off to replace it or whatever the excuse is the next time you do; take a picture of the blades on your turbo.

X2

 

[forcefed86]

I second the motion for check valves. That trickle that follows the pump shutting off can be detrimental to your compressor wheel. If those large droplets roll into the compressor cover, then can reek havoc on the outside tips of the compressor wheel.

I firmly believe that most pre-compressor injection failures have been due to poor nozzle location that lead to very poorly atomized fluid entering the compressor cover. A lack of a check valve can cause the same issues. Everytime is shuts off, you will get a small trickle of unatomized fluid. The only question is, will it cause any damage over time? A $30 check valve to save a $500 turbo. It's not a gamble that I'd be willing to take.

Kudos on the set-up though. My 250 psi pump should show up today. I have 5 different nozzle sizes that I plan to experiment with on the dyno. Should be interesting to see what kind of gains we can pick up with pre-compressor injection.


X2

I wish your stuff would arrive too! I've been watching your build, looks great!

Siphoning is not an issue because of the internal check valve in the pumps.

As far as hardware store check valves, couple problems there. Methanol compatibility and then rigging up some push lock fittings. By the time I did that I might as well just buy DO check valves. The $30 check valve DO sells are really top notch and well worth the money. IMO, Just not necessary in my specific application.

I'll be sure to take a snap shot of the blades next time I'm in there. I've had a bit of experiance with pre-comp. injection. (using alot larger nozzles on past setups as well)

I'm not even a tiny bit worried about compressor damage. I've seen what it takes to damage a wheel. (hell I've damaged a one or two! ) IMO I'm no where near that point. I've actually seen up wards of 60gph pre compressor. I've also never seen/caused damage with 100% methanol.

As far as the intake goes I was thinking of going this route. And just cutting my 2g intake. Dejon claims 45% increase in area over stock.

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Wonder if this setup would flow anymore? (**EDIT** dejon wrote me back. it's 50% increase in area over stock. 2.75". )

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[Devilsown]

Trust me your not going to find a 15psi+ check valve pretty much everywhere. We had to have them custom made up.

Call me and i will you will only need 1 check valve before the Y. even with the check valve you will still have the system drip some as pressure goes from the 40 to 20 psi range where the check valve will close off.

 

[turboglenn]

^ yea, the check valves are not a common item, i looked for them at the place where i buy all my push-lock fittings for my meth injection and pneumatic assemblies and they didn't have anything close.

I was running 3 nozzles with one check valve, pump in trunk and nozzles placed one pre turbo, one post turbo before FMIC and one at the TB elbow and the single check was plenty.
I've been running pre-turbo meth injection for a couple years now and although my compressor is BEAT UP, it's from loosing an intake this winter m+ 120k miles of HARD abuse, but the meth injection after many many runs an inspections hasn't shown to be causing any of the knicks and such that are in my compressor wheel (using pics to compare ) but counting the nicks and measuring the blades is a PITA