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FP68HTA - Back to Back Vs an E3 16g!

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Dyno today - Shoot 4F so no fudging the figures..


20L BP98 + 5L tolly + 5L Hybrid Jungle Juice (Sunoco 106)

Holds 25psi boost nicely, torque is good and power figure left me scratching my head as to how good it was..

(Check the air & intake temps..)

Massivly impressed with the little animal.

:thumb:
 
This is the best I could get out of the E3 when I dynoed it (in cooler conditions). Factory actuator wouldn't hold boost and it would detonate like nothing else at the first sign of boost or timing.

The only thing that changed between these two runs was the turbo - and the new turbo's pent for wanting to boost, with the ability to hold & control control boost better.



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100 hp difference! that's impressive, the E3 turbo was factory turbo correct, not rebuilt or worked on at all?
 
100 hp difference! that's impressive, the E3 turbo was factory turbo correct, not rebuilt or worked on at all?

As factory as factory fitted; same shape as it was the day it left Japan :)

Even in 34 degrees today she hammers along.

Here's the kicker - check the AFR's!


There's power there for the taking with a tune :)

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I'm confused. You only made 268whp with the evo3 16g? Because it would knock? but you were able to make 357whp with the hta68 because it would not?

"the only difference is. . . more boost"? If you just better controlled your 16g gate, you could have net far more than 268whp.

I know guys with 370whp evo3 16g cars running pumpgas and stock manifolds. Also holding 22-25psi boost to red line to do it. We're looking to find out how much more this turbo will net after a direct swap to a decently performing evo3 16g setup. You could swap another evo3 16g turbo on there and make 100whp more :p because something is wrong with your evo3 16g tune.
 
Yea, dont feel you gave the E16g a chance with actuator/knock problems. No doubt the 68hta is better, but this is extremely biased in favor of the recent purchase. Operating conditions are too dissimilar.
 
port both turbine housings. get actuator to hold, and then the results will be worth the wait. the evo III is a great turbo that can produce some fine numbers and ive seen 25psi hold strong on my setup with well over 300 whatevers based on pure speculation.

i wouldnt say disconnect knock sensor and go pure AFR, but might not be a bad idea.
 
Thanks for the results.

I see the glaring problem with you EVOIII 16g boost curves. At 4500 rpms where your showing maybe 20 psi if that, I'd be at 28-30 psi, at 5700 rpms your at ~19.5 psi, and I could hold 25 psi, 6900 rpms you have 18 psi and I would about 21-22 psi. Add in a weak timing curve and rich A/F, I could see a +100 h.p. swing for the EVOIII 16g. Something was physically wrong with your turbo, actuator or the wastegate flapper on the EVOIII 16g. The actuator spring force is actually quite high and on a stock sized wastegate flapper should have no problems holding boost.

The 68HTA dyno curve looks respectable. I'd imagine a well setup and tuned car to pull +430 w.h.p.
 
I see what you mean with the flaws in the E3 setup, but this was a stock fitted turbo with my ebc Vs FP fitted turbo with the same ebc.

There's too many evo 3's down here making under 300hp @ all 4 for me to be satisfied mine was a 'typical' result when I got it dynoe'd..

You can spend hundreds of dollars or spend time tuning for best results making the E3 work or just go buy an FP - which is what I did..

That E3 turbo got me to 11.5x's down the quater so there was not alot wrong with it :)
 
The comparison i would like to see is a fully setup e-85 16g, running as much boost as an external gate can make it, go against an fp in the same situation. I know it should make more power, but i would like to compare absolute max, to max. I'm wondering because i would like to see just what the td05h turbine can flow. I couldn't find a big 16g hotside for my 20g, so i just used a td05h, and evo3 hotside.
 
I see what you mean with the flaws in the E3 setup, but this was a stock fitted turbo with my ebc Vs FP fitted turbo with the same ebc.

There's too many evo 3's down here making under 300hp @ all 4 for me to be satisfied mine was a 'typical' result when I got it dynoe'd..

You can spend hundreds of dollars or spend time tuning for best results making the E3 work or just go buy an FP - which is what I did..

That E3 turbo got me to 11.5x's down the quater so there was not alot wrong with it :)

Yes, but your car also weighed 2600 lbs during those 11.5s @ 115 mph runs.
Since you mention it being a "stock" turbo with certainly some serious mileage, I have little doubt you had a crack in the turbine housing somewhere that was bleeding boost or the turbo was simply tired. Most guys here run the EVOIII 16g brand spanking new with low mileage since its an aftermarket upgrade for us.
 
Either way, there is no doubting the power THIS turbo makes.. Lets not get away from the fact the E3 16g on my E3 could not make power to the level where you guys make it on your setups - it's not comparable..


All I have is 260 / 260 cams, straight through 3" and 560cc injectors with a pump rewire.

Remember, the E3 16G was not optimised to max performance, neither is the FP..


And to compare a new E3 turbo?? Surely you wouldn't buy one over this turbo!



For absolute max comparrison, see Curt Brown's thread :)
 
Either way, there is no doubting the power THIS turbo makes.. Lets not get away from the fact the E3 16g on my E3 could not make power to the level where you guys make it on your setups - it's not comparable..


All I have is 260 / 260 cams, straight through 3" and 560cc injectors with a pump rewire.

Remember, the E3 16G was not optimised to max performance, neither is the FP..


And to compare a new E3 turbo?? Surely you wouldn't buy one over this turbo!



For absolute max comparrison, see Curt Brown's thread :)

Surely, many people would opt for a standard Evo3 turbo over an FP68 simply for the fact that the E3 turbo is often sold new for $500 and the FP turbo is about $800. The FP turbo is not so significantly better to justify a 55% price increase

On your car the gains were a mixture of changes in tuning and boost level on top of what you gained from the slightly larger compressor wheel. Had you swapped your existing E3 16G for a different E3 16G and fixed the tuning to eliminate knock, you should have come within say 20-30hp of the FP turbo.
 
Well I don't know. "the e3 16g" is not what you have. Since 115 mph at 2600lbs race weight and 268whp on a dynojet and not hold as much boost as my small 16g did with WAY more cam and NO exhaust, large FMIC, ported 1g head.

You have "an e3 16g". But, like everyone else has said, something was wrong with it. Considering you couldn't hold enough boost to make 350whp on a dynojet and couldn't run faster with such little weight. The good condition evo3 16g can do far more with what you already have under the hood. Guys like ShapeGSX back in the day were knocking out 119mph traps with full weight 2g cars with 264s and stock manifolds and full exhaust.

Glad to see that you like your new turbo, though. As long as you're happy, it's fine.
 
JonathanNL said:
Very impressed by the results. Still do not fully understand why people do not seem to like the HTA68 turbo... Seems like a perfect turbo for a daily driver to me, especially for a GS-T.

I'm thinking that it's not that folks don't like it. If there were no such thing as an Evo3 16g, then I'm sure this would be everyone's new favorite bolt-on upgrade. But at a $326 premium, and with E3's still available brand spankin new and making good power, I believe this turbo needs to bring more than a few lb/min of airflow to the table to really sell in large numbers. Unless this turbo can bring an actual 47lb/min far more easily than an E3 is supposed to be able to bring 44lb/min, because that's a pipe dream for most folks.

Maybe as more of them sell there will be revealed some solid reasons to pick one up. But even Curt Brown (edit: I mean Lucas English) only netted 0.1sec/5mph vs. an E3...I doubt anyone else will be able to see even that 'big' a difference at the limit. For the same money, you could have a brand new E3 + FP Race Manifold, which would make up some of the top end and spool that the 68HTA brings, and still have the mani if you upgrade the turbo at a later date.
 
I'm thinking that it's not that folks don't like it. If there were no such thing as an Evo3 16g, then I'm sure this would be everyone's new favorite bolt-on upgrade. But at a $326 premium, and with E3's still available brand spankin new and making good power, I believe this turbo needs to bring more than a few lb/min of airflow to the table to really sell in large numbers. Unless this turbo can bring an actual 47lb/min far more easily than an E3 is supposed to be able to bring 44lb/min, because that's a pipe dream for most folks.

Maybe as more of them sell there will be revealed some solid reasons to pick one up. But even Curt Brown only netted 0.1sec/5mph vs. an E3...I doubt anyone else will be able to see even that 'big' a difference at the limit. For the same money, you could have a brand new E3 + FP Race Manifold, which would make up some of the top end and spool that the 68HTA brings, and still have the mani if you upgrade the turbo at a later date.


Ive never run the 68HTA at the track, that car is put away for the winter.
 
Oops, I meant Lucas English. My apologies :coy:
 
Either way, there is no doubting the power THIS turbo makes.. Lets not get away from the fact the E3 16g on my E3 could not make power to the level where you guys make it on your setups - it's not comparable..


All I have is 260 / 260 cams, straight through 3" and 560cc injectors with a pump rewire.

Remember, the E3 16G was not optimised to max performance, neither is the FP..


And to compare a new E3 turbo?? Surely you wouldn't buy one over this turbo!



For absolute max comparrison, see Curt Brown's thread :)

Yeah, not arguing the FP 68hta isn't worth it, I own an FP 68HTA for my WRX.
The point is that the title of this thread makes this sound like a direct comparison, but the lack of boost and bad tune on the E3 16g made the 68HTA look like a monster compared to the E3 16g, this is what everyone is trying to point out. Because we don't own turbo dynos, we are counting on a consistent engine setup and tune (i.e. boost, a/f, timing, temps) to act as a consistent "turbo dyno" to compare turbos.

Comparing apples to apples is fine, doesn't matter what mods you have, but one horrible tune on low boost against a dialed in tune holding high boost skews the results. When I compared my T28 to my E3 16g a while back, I had the T28 maxxed out on a good tune, then slapped on the E3 16g and retuned and got everything nice and happy. In that case, within my capability, I showed the best differential you could achieve going from one turbo to the other. Thats just the point I think people are trying to make, not anything to do with the whether the 68HTA is worth it. I would have expected maybe a 30-40 h.p.
 
but one horrible tune on low boost against a dialed in tune holding high boost skews the results.

Same tune for both turbo's - nothing dialed in here :)

Nothing changed on the EBC either, one turbo holds boost, the other doesn't.


Will attempt to run the 68hta at the same boost as the E3 on this same tune...
 
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