Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[1993eclipseGS]

You might hafto drain all the fluid out of the system, And start all over again. I would try that before buying anything else. My clutch had air in it and it stuck to the floor after I replaced and bleed the whole system, But now after re-bleeding it, It works good again.

 

[Race94]

could be your clutch is dead
i replaced every cylinder and lines and bled all and still no response

 

[jjbrasil]

are u sure your bleeding it the right way....your supposed to pump it 3 times and hold it, THEN your freind opens the bleeder valve while your still holding it down, and then your freind should tighten it up after like a few seconds then u do the process over and over....sounds like u just had the valve open and just kept pumping...and make sure your slave cylinder is good mine blew on me the other night

 

[Devicex]

Right, and if you dont hook a hose to the bleeder valve and submerge it into a bottle of fluid, you're likely to suck air back into the system and you'll never get anywhere. Follow the steps for bleeding in the master/slave cylinder replacement page on http://www.vfaq.com

 

[joemathews]

When this happened to me it was as easy as a bolt needing to be tightened/adjusted in the clutch pedal assembly. Try the easy things first, because you may be overlooking the simple things.

 

[BoostInsideTSi]

ok, I tried what you recommended, with the steps for bleeding the system, and I also submerged a hose coming off the bleeder valve into a resivoir with some brake fluid in it. I had my friend pump it, and then I would open up the valve, and I would see a little gunk come out into the water, but no air. I saw a few bubbles the first time i did it, and i actually had to shake the crap out of the hose to see some bubbles, but they came to the top. I did about 10 more revolutions of this, refilling as needed, and I saw no improvement in the clutch pedal, nor any more air bubbles come out of the hose.

I am thinking that if the clutch pedal is being pulled to the floor by the master cylinder in the first place, is there really going to be anything pushed out by me pumping the pedal?

 

[boostedinaz]

You need to look under the dash and make sure that the linklage is not stuck on something. The master cylinder will not keep the pedal to the floor. When I put a new one in my Talon the linkage got caught up and I couldnt pull the pedal back to the normal position.

Also make sure that the rod is about half way screwed in to that little clamp with the pin through it. If that isnt done right then the mechanical leverage will hold it to the floor. You will be able to pull it up but it still needs to be adjusted right to get the most out of it.

http://www.teamrip.com/clutch adjustment.html

Michael

 

[BoostInsideTSi]

Ok I took a look under the dash.. noticed there was noth ing obstucting the master cylinder or clutch pedal at all.. everything looked fine. I just rememebered that the clutch master cylinder came off a 2nd gen 2.0 non turbo. mine is 2nd gen turbo. So I called the local mitsu dealer and the parts guy said they are 2 different numbers, but the same price. I have no idea if they are 2 different parts... the reason I wanted to check, even though they look identical, is that I can't get the clutch to come out more than half way when I pull it up. I looked at the rod on my old master cyl. compared to the new one, and it "looks" like the original master cylinder may have a longer rod. No matter how hard I pull or move the pedal right now, i can't get it to come out more than half way. Anyone know if these parts are infact different?

 

[boostedinaz]

Ok I took a look under the dash.. noticed there was noth ing obstucting the master cylinder or clutch pedal at all.. everything looked fine. I just rememebered that the clutch master cylinder came off a 2nd gen 2.0 non turbo. mine is 2nd gen turbo. So I called the local mitsu dealer and the parts guy said they are 2 different numbers, but the same price. I have no idea if they are 2 different parts... the reason I wanted to check, even though they look identical, is that I can't get the clutch to come out more than half way when I pull it up. I looked at the rod on my old master cyl. compared to the new one, and it "looks" like the original master cylinder may have a longer rod. No matter how hard I pull or move the pedal right now, i can't get it to come out more than half way. Anyone know if these parts are infact different?

Sometimes I come across as a dick and this may be one of those times. I have been around cars for along time and one of the things I have seen is something like this. People will go and get a part that "should fit just fine." When they try to get it to work it doesnt and they end up spendign more than they wanted in the first place. If you look at some of my other post I always say do it right and do it once. Get rid of the part you have and go buy a brand new 2G turbo master cylinder. The parts store has two different part numbers becasue they are two different parts.

Michael

 

[BoostInsideTSi]

I just pulled out the master cyl. I purchased. ended up being a shorter rod. Figured it would work fine, learned my lesson. Anyhoo, new master cylinder in, waiting for my friend to arrive to help me bleed. Thanks for all your posts. I took a pic with the 2 cylinders next to eachother to show the difference. Will be posted on this thread soon.

 

[cbellsondsm]

My car has been doing the weirdest thing for a while and it is now really starting to get on my nerves. When i start my car in the morning and i push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor it barely disengages the clutch and it feels very soggy. Also it is very hard to get into gear and shift. After i drive around for a while(15-20min) and get on the car a couple of times the clutch height of where it engages/disengages when i push the pedal down slowly rises and starts to feel more like it should and the car then can go into gear easy and shift smoothly, but after it sits for a little bit and cools down i am back at where i started in the morning. The master cylinder rod has already been extended and i could adjust it out more but then when the car warms up and i drive around for a while the clutch cant engage all of the way. It was really bad in the winter and was better almost all summer but now it is starting to act up again. I have changed the master cylinder and rebuilt the slave cylinder also the car has a act2100. I just don't under stand what could cause the clutch height to change so drastically from not being able to shift or get it in gear and then driving for 20min and it all of a sudden works fine. What could my problem be? Please help? Thanks

 

[Defiant]

Make sure your bell housing bolts aren't backing out.

 

[cbellsondsm]

Make sure your bell housing bolts aren't backing out.

I just went out and checked the transmission and all of the bolts are tight and the transmission is sitting flush on the motor.

 

[Greg Collier]

Have you tried completely bleeding the system?

 

[PhoenixGSX]

I have heard that is a sign of Crank Walk. Not good news. Does the clutch stick in when you turn left?

 

[waiting2bl33d]

Have you tried completely bleeding the system?

mine did almost the same thing bled the system and works great now

 

[cbellsondsm]

Well i checked the crank endplay with a dial indicator and it was 1.5 thousndths so i dont think crank walk will be a problem any time soon. I bled the clutch system it seemed to help but didnt fix it all the way. How can you check to see if you need to fix somthing with the clutch pedal assembly because i have heard that it wears out. I know it would be a pain to get out but if it fixes my problem it would be worth it. What would you replace on it. Thanks

 

[Greg Collier]

Well i checked the crank endplay with a dial indicator and it was 1.5 thousndths so i dont think crank walk will be a problem any time soon. I bled the clutch system it seemed to help but didnt fix it all the way. How can you check to see if you need to fix somthing with the clutch pedal assembly because i have heard that it wears out. I know it would be a pain to get out but if it fixes my problem it would be worth it. What would you replace on it. Thanks

I just can't see that varying height of a clutch pedal would be do to a warn out clutch assembly lever. (When it's down it's down) It seems more like a slave or master cylinder problem dealing with the pressure or hydraulics of your system. What type of clutch fluid are you using? Have you completely bled out the system using all new fluid? Sometimes systems condensate and you end up with water in the mixture.

If you end up changing the clutch pedal assembly the kit runs about $75.00. It is, or was for me, a major effort in changing the assembly. But it was well worth it...

 

[cbellsondsm]

I rebuilt the slave cylinder instead of buying a whole new one because it was like 50 bucks cheaper. Could the slave cylinder be bad?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

do you have the dowel pins in it?!?!? all 4 bolts in? such as the one on the backside of the engine on the bottom?

hoping it's not what i think it might be. won't cost a lot but it'd be a good amount of work. fun fun!

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Im a few posts down, im sorta having the same problem and im leaning towards the master cylinder....there is a little bit of residue around the rod so thats all i can think of it being.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Im a few posts down, im sorta having the same problem and im leaning towards the master cylinder....there is a little bit of residue around the rod so thats all i can think of it being.

"yours" could be the master cylinder being that you've seen residue. but for the original poster, he's already replaced it.

what i'm wondering is if he didn't have his dowel pins in. could've maybe broken off the ear on the engine block. so even if the tranny bolts are tight, it's not gonna matter cause if the ear is broken off it'll move right along with the tranny when the clutch is pushed in.

 

[cbellsondsm]

I just had my dad sit in the car and push the clutch a bunch of times while i was watching the trans. The trans didn't move a bit and it is sitting flat along the whole block. I am going to try and bleed the whole entire clutch system again. I ordered a extended slave cylinder push rod last night hopefully that might fix it. If any one has any more suggestions please feel free to post. Any suggestion is better then none. Thanks again

Oh and i am using prestone synthetic dot 3 brake fluid. If this could be the problem please let me know.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

well how's it feeling when you press on it with your dad watching? feeling normal? if so, nothing's going on. my block had the very same thing happen. it wouldn't also move away. one minute it was fine. nest minute it'd move. look at the ear's on the block and make sure there's no crack. again, dowel pins installed?