Wiseco HD or standard pistons?

[TheFallenTSI97]

I've decided that the pistons in my 6 bolt aren't quite up to spec. Also one of my buddies had the pry bar slip while removing the cylinder head and now I have a good size gash in the top of one..... But anywho, I'm debating on if the Wiseco standard pistons will be enough. I have a Precision Engineering PT6262, methanol injection, and possibly a small shot of Nitrous for passes at the strip. I was thinking I should pony up the extra money for the HD pistons and have that extra security. But this is something I want to be able to drive around on the streets on low PSI and pump gas. So my next question is, if I did go with the HD pistons would they still be street-able? Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

The only thing that would make an hd piston, any piston for that matter, not street friendly is if you to too high on the compression for the fuel you're using.

 

[1qkfwd]

You'll be just fine with the standards as long as they are installed right. I've ran them hard and my buddy has been running standards with a 42R for quite some time. Maybe he will chime in on his experience.

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

Thanks guys. I am unsure of the actual power this setup will make but from the builds I have based this off I don't see any reason why 600awhp is unobtainable. From what I've researched standard Wiseco pistons are rated for around 500-600bhp so I wasn't sure, I have plenty of time on this build so if I have to wait and save up a little more to make sure this block can more than handle what I'm throwing at it. Plus I have the option to upgrade the turbo set up way on down the road without having to rebuild the engine again. But I want to wait for some more guys running standard Wiseco's to weigh in first.

 

[BogusSVO]

My question is, Why did your buddy need a pry bar to pull the head?

 

[95DsManiac]

/\ I was wondering the same exact thing?

Op: the price difference isn't really anything at all so if you want more reliability, say you decide to go for more than 600 one day, then just get the HDs. I myself have the standards at 9:1CR and am going to push them as far as I can, but I would have gotten the others one if I knew my plans were going to change for what I was doing. What rods are you going To use? What bearings? What bearing clearances? Piston to wall clearance? Top ring gap? Bottom ring gap? How much has your head and block been shaved? Because these have more a chance to damage your engine then the pistons them selves.

Anthony B.

 

[dsmspick]

Idk if your searches on wiesco pistons showed that the standards tend to crack at the wrist pin and that the hd's don't have that issue. That's what I concluded when I was reading info on different pistons.

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

My question is, Why did your buddy need a pry bar to pull the head?

Well Apparently the head likes to mate to the block when you use a cheap ass head gasket .But it was definitely not the right material gasket for our cars even on factory setup. I pulled it off and to my dismay found the previous owner had used a non MLS, just plain jane head gasket. And that head did not want to come off what so ever.
I have Eagle rods and Eagle crank(factory stroke). I'm going to be replacing the bearings with ACL main and rod bearings. I still have to get the block honed, As far as clearance I'm trying to get keep everything as close to stock as I can. The bore and stroke will be kept at a factory 85mm and 88mm.

 

[BogusSVO]

lets see what I have to go into some short block builds

Scat rods/Mahle pistons (2.0/1g)
Brian Crower rods / coated JE pistons (2.0/1g)
manley Rods/Manley pistons (2.3/7bolt)
Eagle Rod/Wiseco pistons (2.3/6bolt)
Eagle rod/wiseco pistons (2.0/7bolt)
Eagle Rod/ ross pistons (2.0/6 bolt) Pistons are junk, collapsed skirts
Eagle rod/??? pistons (2.0/7bolt)

 

[BogusSVO]

Well Apparently the head likes to mate to the block when you use a cheap ass Fel-Pro head gasket(may not have even been Fel-pro).But it was definitely not the right material gasket for our cars even on factory setup. I pulled it off and to my dismay found the previous owner had used a non MLS, just plain jane Fel-pro gasket. And that head did not want to come off what so ever.
I have Eagle rods and Eagle crank(factory stroke). I'm going to be replacing the bearings with ACL main and rod bearings. I still have to get the block honed, As far as clearance I'm trying to get keep everything as close to stock as I can. The bore and stroke will be kept at a factory 85mm and 88mm.

The only times I have seen a Felpro do that is if the gasket was coated.

And the "cheap ass" felpro gasket has been proven over 500hp w/30+ psi

I install them quite often with out issue.

Now the erstic/topline/engineTech HG will leave a coating of graphite on both the block and head when pealed off.

Now with this being the third build, I would suggest that the block be bored
very doubtfull that you have round bores or a non taper cylinder.

Since new pistons are being bought, and no price difference between STD and over size, spending a few more dollars on block work would seem logical.

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

Sorry I shouldn't have drug Fel-pro through the mud, especially without knowing the actual brand. But the gasket that came out was not the kind of gasket for these cars. I don't know who made it or the better question of who thought it was a good idea to put it on but it should have never been used for the head gasket.

Since new pistons are being bought, and no price difference between STD and over size, spending a few more dollars on block work would seem logical.

So would you suggest taking the bore out to a 85.5mm then? I wasn't really looking into boring out the engine. But this being my first build I'm definitely open to good advice. If it would be beneficial to bore out, would you mind explaining the benefits of doing so. The only thing I don't want to do is stroke it out, but that's not really what we're discussing right now.

 

[boost97gst]

You're machinist will tell you how far over you have to go. He will mic it and, unless its really egged or scratched, it will probably be .020 over. Its when you get to .060 that you might want to consider a new block. Without seeing it no one can say for sure. Machinist needs to get specs before you order anything. Same goes for main bearing and rod bearings. These are things that he will tell you what size to buy.

Edit: Assuming its .020 then yes, you would be looking at 85.5mm

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

You're machinist will tell you how far over you have to go. He will mic it and, unless its really egged or scratched, it will probably be .020 over. Its when you get to .060 that you might want to consider a new block. Without seeing it no one can say for sure. Machinist needs to get specs before you order anything. Same goes for main bearing and rod bearings. These are things that he will tell you what size to buy.

Edit: Assuming its .020 then yes, you would be looking at 85.5mm

Thank you sir, I've been more focused on my head work, I've kinda neglected my block. Going to have to reevaluate my build as for as the block goes.

 

[boost97gst]

NP. After he bores, hones etc, you bring him the rods/pistons then he can install it. Im sure he will posih the crank or send it off for polishing. Probably your best bet. Its only a little extra. Have you looked in to balancing yet? You may want to have the assembly balanced. It really can increase the longevity of the engine and allow you to rev higher safely. I skipped it on my first build, def doing it on my next!

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

Well honestly, my original plan was to replace the pistons with a new set, Eagle rods, Eagle crankshaft, new ACL bearing, and hone the cylinders. But I see now that won't be enough.

 

[95DsManiac]

What are your goals as far as awhp? Because stock clearances is kinda tight IMHO.

 

[arrowhead]

NP. After he bores, hones etc, you bring him the rods/pistons then he can install it. Im sure he will posih the crank or send it off for polishing. Probably your best bet. Its only a little extra. Have you looked in to balancing yet? You may want to have the assembly balanced. It really can increase the longevity of the engine and allow you to rev higher safely. I skipped it on my first build, def doing it on my next!

Reverse the order and wait until machinist tell you what the oversize would be.

 

[boost97gst]

Yes. As is stated in the post PRIOR to that(#12): The machinist tells you what size to buy. OP understood.

 

[TheFallenTSI97]

Well I'm not 100% how much awhp the set up will make but from the builds I based this on, I estimate between 500-600 awhp on conservative PSI and pump gas with the capability to reach 700awhp max PSI, methanol injection, and race gas. I'm also kinda wanting to add nitrous to the mix when I'm at the strip. The 700awhp maybe a little ambitious but given what I've seen the setups I based on, and then took a few steps further mid to high 600awhp doesn't seem out of reach.

 

[bigdnno98]

600hp is kind of the threshold between the standard Weisco and the hd. If you think you'll go over 600hp then HD for sure. If you have the extra money then HD for sure. If you're trying to save money and are willing to stop at 600hp then standard weiscos are fine.

 

[Kirkamus]

I went hd because I got one heck of a deal on a brand new set 8.5:1