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Why water injection is the best mod I've done in years...

Posted by laser92awd, Mar 10, 2003

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  1. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
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  2. larryd

    larryd Proven Member

    4,286
    0
    Joined Nov 26, 2001
    Bear, Delaware
    looks like it worked out well for ya.. Im impressed :)
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    13.421 @ 109.960 MPH
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  3. Rx3

    Rx3 DSM Wiseman

    483
    12
    Joined Mar 20, 2002
    Buffalo, New York
    OMG :thumb:


    are you injecting to the throttle body elbow, intercooler, or straight to the CAI?
     
    My DSM:
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  4. 4wd-Eclipse

    4wd-Eclipse Proven Member

    335
    2
    Joined Aug 26, 2002
    Oman, Muscat, Asia
    Nice laser92awd, which WI system you are using & what is the jet size?
     
    My DSM:
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  5. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    Aquamist (the ONLY way to go IMHO)

    2 nozzles, 5mm and 6mm

    5mm pre-intercooler
    6mm pre-throttle body

    If you had a big front mount I/C you could just go with one big nozzle pre-throttle body, but I'm running a side-mount so I put one before the I/C to reduce heat soak, and it really works!

    The math says the car can use larger nozzles, but I was worried about stressing the pump too much so I thought I'd start with smaller nozzles - which are working fine.

    For years I ran an "intercooler sprayer" where it sprayed on the outside of the intercooler. Let me tell you there's no comparison. Injecting inside the I/C (instead of on the outside of it) is like a night and day difference.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
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  6. Zerocygnal

    Zerocygnal Proven Member

    571
    0
    Joined Jul 1, 2002
    Springfield, Ohio
    Now...although I have no knock at all...if I were to use the aquamist system, would I be able to lean it out a bit more and add a bit of timing then you would without it?

    (Wondering if I should rephrase that..)
     
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  7. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    I would think yes. No matter what, your intake temp will drop and the air becomes more dense which can allow for more power. On it's own it probably wouldn't benefit you since you're already at 0 knock, but in conjunction with more timing or more boost is where you could get added power.

    Jonathan
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  8. bobo2986

    bobo2986 Proven Member

    59
    0
    Joined Jan 14, 2003
    ,
    hey just wondering how much that water injection setup cost you roughly?

    P.S. awsome job:thumb:
     
  9. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
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    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    I paid $300 for it on ebay. It was new with a couple missing pieces. I ordered the parts to complete the installation from Brad at kcsaab.com. The total cost was approximately $325 for the complete project including an LED indicator. This is the basic "1S" system which is good for street cars and 1/4 mile cars. They have other systems for road race / rally cars. Great "bang for the buck" ratio IMO.

    I run wiper fluid (alcohol/water mix) and use about half a jug per gas tank fill up. That's about 50 cents more per fillup. That's still pretty reasonable compared to other "fill it up" options such as nitrous or a CO2 sprayer. Or you could run straight water and still get benefits with no ongoing cost at all.

    Jonathan
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  10. 4wd-Eclipse

    4wd-Eclipse Proven Member

    335
    2
    Joined Aug 26, 2002
    Oman, Muscat, Asia
    My DSM:
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  11. Silent2g

    Silent2g Proven Member

    435
    0
    Joined Feb 10, 2002
    ,
    do not run straight water, or "tap" water as one would call it

    get distilled water from the store in those nifty plastic jugs.

    windshield washer fluid is 49% water 49% menthonal 1 % blue dye.

    im running a 1s system on my 90 tsi.
    zero knock at 17.5 psi
    no toe in, no top end knock, none period.
    don't go overboard with the system. be conservitive.

    and you'll be alright
     
  12. SOURCE1064

    SOURCE1064 Proven Member

    651
    0
    Joined Apr 15, 2002
    Paramus, New Jersey
    This is definately going to be a next mod for me.
     
    My DSM:
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  13. RipperXX

    RipperXX Proven Member

    3,119
    103
    Joined Feb 23, 2003
    Royston, Georgia
    umm i gota put that on my upgread list.. right after the AFC.. and 20G(LOL gime a break just geting started)..
     
    My DSM:
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    13.476 @ 105.48 MPH
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  14. Phoenix_RsX

    Phoenix_RsX Proven Member

    299
    0
    Joined Jun 28, 2002
    ,
    nice man...I like that. 22psi on a 16G too? good show! :thumb: how much that cost ya and where do you have it running to? (IF you haven't said that already)
     
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  15. Antilles

    Antilles Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    Savage, Minnesota
    I see you have a VPC listed as one of your mods. Where do you have the temperature probe mounted? It looked to me like water injection would need to be after the temp probe, but maybe not.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.450 @ 109.030 MPH
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  16. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    That's a question that I mulled over for a while when I was planning my install. I could never get a straight answer from anybody, even Aquamist.

    Ultimately I found out that the spray is so fine, and the intake temp so hot, that the water evaporates and cools the air virtually on contact.

    So, my VPC temp probe is in the throttle body elbow. I worked my way back along the upper I/C pipe prior to the first bend (old HKS pipes) and installed it there.

    At first I only used this one sprayer nozzle so I could gauge any good/bad effect. All I had was a good effect - no negative affect from the VPC and my knock came way down.

    Perhaps if I didn't have a VPC I would have mounted the nozzle where the VPC probe is, immediately before the throttle body. That might be more efficient. But as it is I'm getting 0 knock and everything is working so I can't complain. :)

    Jonathan
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  17. SOURCE1064

    SOURCE1064 Proven Member

    651
    0
    Joined Apr 15, 2002
    Paramus, New Jersey
    BTW which aquamist system is it and what are you using as a tank?
     
    My DSM:
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  18. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    See post 9, and I'm using the existing front wiper jug. I didn't loose my windshield sprayers - I just added a fitting to the jug and now it does double duty.

    Jonathan
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  19. Antilles

    Antilles Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    Savage, Minnesota
    Sorry, I lost track of this thread and im coming in a little late. Please answer a few questions i have:

    What kind of wiper fluid do you use? This is perfectly safe as opposed to water? Can you use tap or only distilled water?
    Exactly how far is the sprayer from the VPC temp probe?
    What is Aquamist's web addy?
    What is the LED indicator for?
    Does this system automatically inject water at a certain throttle position? How is this setup?

    Sorry for the numerous questions, but since getting the VPC I pretty much gave up on any sort of water injection and have not looked for any available info.

    Thanks much,

    Chris
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.450 @ 109.030 MPH
    Loading...
  20. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
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    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    Any standard wiper fluid (usually blue), the blue dye is such a small amount it doesn't hurt anything. It is better than straight water. Why? Take some rubbing alcohol, put it on your hand, blow air across your hand compared to the hand without alcohol on it, and you'll immediately know why it's better than straight water... If you can still get the "Winter Formula" it usually has a slightly better mixture than the "Summer Formula" but both are better than straight water.

    I have been told to only use distilled water if running straight water.

    The sprayer nozzle will depend on your upper intercooler piping. Some people put it very close to their VPC probe and say it's fine. Mine is back about 8 inches from the probe in the straight pipe section and works fine. Aquamist (www.aquamist.co.uk) has no offical position on this.

    The LED indicator is wired across the leads of the included adjustable boost pressure switch which is what activates the system (throttle position is irrelevant because you'll always be at WOT to pull 10psi). When you see the LED come on you'll know the system is activated. That's the only way to know anything is happening aside from your jug's water level going down or using a logger to log lower knock values compared to running without water injection.

    I have the Aquamist System 1S. They sell all over the web or on eBay.

    Hope this helps!

    Jonathan
    :dsm:
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  21. Silent2g

    Silent2g Proven Member

    435
    0
    Joined Feb 10, 2002
    ,
    same kit i have on my 90 tsi

    the reason you run the "smurf piss" is due to the fact it won't freeze in the winter time.
    49% water
    49% methonal {small detonation properties}
    1% blue dye
     
  22. Antilles

    Antilles Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    Savage, Minnesota
    thanks guys. i dont trust that i wont get some home depot kit shopping on ebay, any decent sites on the web that sell water injection?
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.450 @ 109.030 MPH
    Loading...
  23. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    Silent 2G:
    I think it's actually 2% blue dye, but still doesn't hurt anything. I believe the "summer formula" has slightly less % methonal because that's what keeps it from freezing?? Could be wrong.

    Antilles:
    Sounds like you need a good search engine. Go to www.google.com and enter "Aquamist System 1S". You'll find lots of web shops and information.

    I ordered my kit off ebay (new, but opened box) and was very happy and saved about $100 over the lowest price I had seen on the web. Depends on who you're dealing with of course.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
    Loading...
  24. pimpngear

    pimpngear Proven Member

    87
    0
    Joined Jan 22, 2003
    Arlnington, Virginia
    Thanks for all the good info laser92awd. I plan on rebuilding a new engine soon(130kmi will do that to you). Everyone says it's insane, but i want to take her up to about 9.5:1. with a ton of boost(17-21psi)Without having to run race gas, i am at a loss for knock and detoanation.......i think, and PLEASE corect me if I am wrong, but by lowering the intake temperatures, I should be able to run 93 octane and still have no Pre-detonation.?? Am I at least on the right track...........I guess what I am really asking is..in your opinion, do you see any runability problem with a constint flowing system(1 jet for constant, and 1 for race day?). Will an over excess of water damage anything?
    Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  25. laser92awd

    laser92awd Proven Member

    131
    0
    Joined Jul 13, 2002
    Central Florida, Florida
    You can hydrolock your engine if you pump too much water into it. You do NOT want to do that. There is some simple math a person can use to help design their water injection system:

    Fuel injector size X 4 cylinders X maximum FI duty cycle = fuel system
    size

    For my car: 550cc/min X 4 X 95% = 2090cc/min of fuel

    A 20% water to fuel ratio would come out to: 418cc/min
    (2090*20%=418)

    You can then look at the jet flow rates on Aquamist's web site under "System 1S Tech Link".

    I used a 5mm to cool my intercooler (about 190cc/min)
    I used a 6mm to cool pre TB (about 230cc/min)
    190+230=420 which is right where I want to be.

    Don't just go by what I did - every car is different. You need to plan your system carefully and be careful not to run too high of a ratio. It would be better to start small and then work up. I actually started with 1 nozzle for testing purposes. Ran that way for a week or two. When I was satisifed I added the "T" and second nozzle.

    With one nozzle my knock was cut in half. When I added the second nozzle the knock went away completely. You'll need some sort of logger to be able to verify it is working right and for tuning purposes. I had to lean out my VPC fuel gain because I was running too rich under WOT after I added the water injection.

    Hope this helps,
    Jonathan
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD

    13.035 @ 107.320 MPH
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