To go or not to go auto... That is the question

Posted by freedomtanker, Sep 22, 2017

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  1. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    So I'm building my car right now and the block will be able to handle 600+ HP but the trans will never be able to handle that without dumping $3-4K into the trans. do auto DSMs suck to drive around or could they be just as fun by adding a shift box/kit? I'm looking at 4-425hp if I stay 5-spd and 5-600 if I go auto. thoughts?

    edit-This isn't a daily driver, more of a street/strip/weekend/summer warrior
     

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    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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  2. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    1,479
    546
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    Just find somebody with a manual dsm and have them drive it for you while you sit on the curb and that's probably what an auto will feel like.
     
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  3. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    well played sir LOL. that's ho I feel. I drive an auto LSX car daily and I really cant stand it... I also think that 400 manual horsepower would be a lot more fun than 600 automatic. just wanted to get an opinion before I did something stupid.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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  4. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,231
    88
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    To get 500-600 hp out of an auto you will need to be producing 700-800 hp as the torque converter eats up hp. My car made 580 on manual and dropped down to 450 after I swapped over (Little different setup but close). I love my auto with a ratchet-shifter, don't have any want to go back to a manual after swapping.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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  5. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

    804
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    Joined Apr 20, 2011
    Walworth, New York
    There's enough auto parts shells available for 500-1000 that you'd be better off buying instead of swapping a manual car just start with an auto. the past month or two I've seen some mint 1gs get chopped up for little to no reason. locally. a guy bought a mint 92 with the 6/4 setup that was auto. 67k he paid 800 for it in non running condition with a title.. parts the car out and crushed the shell... in 10 years it's gonna be 10x harder to find parts for our cars.. so please. please. buy an auto car and build it.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  6. 802gst

    802gst Proven Member

    34
    14
    Joined Feb 12, 2017
    St.albans, Vermont
    while neither my dsm's are close to 600hp, both are 16g cars. my 5 speed is awd my auto fwd and my 5 speed is hands down more responsive when u push the pedal but my auto in my opinion only lacks in off boost. stock for stock I would guess my 5 speed awd tsi puts more power to the ground than my auto gst. once the stock tranny gets upgrades I'm sure it would be different.
    sorry if not helpful just putting in my personal experience. good luck
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  7. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

    986
    195
    Joined Dec 20, 2002
    Mckinney, Texas
    Having owned auto and manual, the auto imports just don't feel the same.

    I've driven automatic ls1 fbodies and 6 speed and it's a much different experience. The torque of the ls1 makes the auto a much easier auto car to drive and enjoy , partial throttle down shifts aren't abrupt and the transmission gearing is much different. I had no complaints about my ls1 automatics, they had torque where they were suppose to, they accelerated how I wanted them to.

    The auto 4g63 feels disconnected, the parasitic loss with the torque converter makes it feel like a regular car with a regular power band. Not a turbo car with a kick at partial throttle. Down shifts are abrupt, the ecu wants the car to shift as if it was non turbo, down shifting to higher rpms when low torque turbo grunt should have been used. It would be nice if you could re calibrate the shift settings to lock in gear
     
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  8. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Proven Member

    2,553
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Stay tuned for the ForcedFour Shiftbox 100.1 review.......you get features like that depending on how you set up your own map. Just worked on the shift map in particular tonite on my 6/4 stock auto car. :cool:
    It will shift in auto mode or you can override it and use manual controls, even paddles if you desire. :sneaky:
    Details to come.....
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
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  9. 802gst

    802gst Proven Member

    34
    14
    Joined Feb 12, 2017
    St.albans, Vermont
    I agree 100 percent about the converter. I can't say my auto is a turd like non boosted cars. I had an lt1 camaro auto and yes 330 ft lbs stock was far superior. But... once I upgraded my turbo different story. To each their own.
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  10. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

    986
    195
    Joined Dec 20, 2002
    Mckinney, Texas
    My results and desires for my cars are extremely subjective. I expect my eclipses to be outstanding daily drivers, and not all out performance.

    So to me in 5th gear going 50mph and being able to feel instant torque to pass, even at a quarter throttle is outstanding performance for my conditions. In that specific example my eclipse is more fun than any other car I own including my fbody.

    The auto takes the fun out of that, it downshifts to high rpm to pass "similar" to what I would expect a non turbo car to do. It's not that it isn't as fast, it's just not as pleasurable.

    4g63 + auto is like f***ing a super model but you have to wear 4 condoms. Sure it's great but it doesn't have the same feel to it like the real skin on skin of the clutch pedal :p
     
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  11. jery1234

    jery1234 Proven Member

    208
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    Joined Jul 26, 2008
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    I drive an auto for a very long time, and yes, it could be fun, but you need 2.3 stroker in it, 2.0 just don't have enough balls.
     
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  12. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,231
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    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    37 psi to 8.75k would like to argue with that statement.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  13. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    Lol 37 psi in anything is very ballsy
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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  14. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Well while I LOVE my 5 speed car at 40 psi, if my auto car had the same setup, it would out 60' the 5 speed hands down. Hell even stock, I wonder if my auto car would hang with the race car for 60', I think it would. It LEAPS off of the line and spools, no re-spooling between gears. Just my .02
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
    Loading...
  15. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,231
    88
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    Build the car for it and its not as "ballsy" as you think! Haha

    On a serious note though, I had two built GSX's 5-speeds which were a lot of fun to drive. I swapped mine to auto and I like this setup far more than the 5-speed cars. I don't use a TCU so I manually shift the auto which helps the fun factor but the reliability of the auto setup is amazing. Comparing the 580 awhp 5-speed to the 440 awhp auto, I would choose the auto.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  16. b00stedtalon2

    b00stedtalon2 Proven Member

    471
    275
    Joined Dec 19, 2005
    Royal Oak, Michigan
    Auto is fun with a shift box. I enjoy driving mine around.
     
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    9.585 @ 143.96 MPH
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    TeamFury and 1990TSIAWDTALON like this.
  17. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    When it comes to drag racing, auto is the far superior option, but since the car will be used for a little of everything i think the 5spd will suffice....for now...
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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  18. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,231
    88
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    Drive a ratchet shifter auto on the street once!
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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  19. OH91awd

    OH91awd Proven Member

    71
    15
    Joined Sep 22, 2011
    chillicothe, Ohio
    shift box, 3g shifter, shift kit, converter and done. I used to scream 5 spd for life but since I got my auto I would never swap back.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Drag Race Build

    10.89 @ 125.67 MPH
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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    jery1234 likes this.
  20. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    with a good converter and shift kit, what kind of loss are you looking at from the auto? a lot of people make up silly numbers like hundreds of horses from auto parasitic loss.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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  21. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,231
    88
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    On a manual car that has mid 500 hp, you will lose roughly 100 hp depending on the converter. That is about what I lost on the dyno after I swapped. I did change turbo's but they are rated roughly the same so it was not the turbo that changed much.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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  22. OH91awd

    OH91awd Proven Member

    71
    15
    Joined Sep 22, 2011
    chillicothe, Ohio
    as far as hp difference I couldn't tell you. I can tell you that the maiden voyage on my car on wastegate pressure and the auto setup I went 10.89@125.6 mph. and that's with a soft launch. car should run 10.60-10.70s on wastegate. doing some of the conversions for et to hp I estimated that far made about 475-500hp through the auto.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Drag Race Build

    10.89 @ 125.67 MPH
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  23. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Proven Member

    2,553
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    What was WG pressure? That is a super maiden voyage!!
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
    Loading...
  24. OH91awd

    OH91awd Proven Member

    71
    15
    Joined Sep 22, 2011
    chillicothe, Ohio
    wastegate pressure was at 26psi. holset hx40 on a bep .70 ar housing. im still trying to learn the car too LOL. I think after the bigger fuel pump car should go very low 10s if not high 9s. car is still in street trim as well LOL
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Drag Race Build

    10.89 @ 125.67 MPH
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  25. freedomtanker

    freedomtanker Proven Member

    54
    5
    Joined May 16, 2017
    exeter, Pennsylvania
    I might start looking for an auto for later when my manual blows third gear... LOL
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT35   manual
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