td06h and td06sl2 housing

Posted by agentorange313, Mar 17, 2012
Turbo System Tech - 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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  1. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

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    Can a td06sl2 turbine housing be machined to fit a td06h wheel?

    Here are the turbine specs:
    TD06h:
    Inducer - 67.2mm
    Exducer - 58.8mm

    TD06SL2:
    Inducer - 61mm
    Exducer - 54mm

    TD05h:
    Inducer - 56mm
    Exducer - 49.2mm

    Most td06sl2 housing look to be an evo3 style housing. This, from my research, is impossible to machine to fit anything larger than a TD05h wheel. So these housing must be cast for a TD06SL2 turbine wheel.

    I did notice that the exducer for the TD06H is smaller than the exducer on the td06sl2, I am assuming this is where the problem lies with machining the housing. I might have answered my own question here, but I have never machined a turbine housing, nor do I owe a TD06SL2 turbine wheel to compare.

    EDIT:
    Ignore the question above, since I had the specs backwards it no longer pertains.

    My orginal question still remains, can a TD06SL2 turbine housing be machined to fit a TD06H?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
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  2. sqr

    sqr Proven Member

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    I think you have the inducer exducer sizes backward on the sl2, but i do not know the answer.
     
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  3. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

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    Thanks I just corrected that, didnt realize.
     
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  4. gprix1

    gprix1 Proven Member

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    Not to sound like a smartass but why would you want a TD06H over a TD06SL2 unless you are dead set on using a Mitsu' turbine wheel. The smaller wheel of the TD06SL2 is supposed to spool quicker while the fewer blades gives it flow on top end (would be great to see a back-to-back comparison on this).

    As to your question, I don't know if I would risk it. I am assuming you want the updated features of the Evo3 turbine housing like the bigger outlet to match it to an Evo3 sized O2 housing without machining. Also, the TDO6SL2 turbine housings come stock with a 34mm wastegate.
    Are you hoping the TD06SL2 turbine is cast thicker than a standard Evo3 housing and therefor might have enough meat to machine it?
    I happen to have one of the TD06SL2 turbine housings but unfortunately I don't have a regulare Evo3 housing to compare it to. If you give me some definate areas to measure I will try and get you what information I can.
     
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  5. gprix1

    gprix1 Proven Member

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    Just took a measurement on the casting in what should be the most relevent area which comes out to 61.72mm. This is in the area of the exducer so if we subtract the TD06SL2 extducer size of 54mm + ~1.5mm of clearance you get 6.22mm. Divide that by half and you end up with roughly 3.11 casting thickness.

    Now, lets subtract a TD06H extducer size of 58.8mm + ~1.5mm of clearance and you end up with 1.9mm. Divide that by half and you end up with .95mm casting wall thickness. so no.. I don't think that will work :)
    [​IMG]

    Something to consider is just using a 7mm mitsu' housing of a non-Evo3 variant. You can definately machine that for a TD06H and then just port the inlet and machine the outlet to to be like the Evo3 outlet. You can also purchase a 34mm wastegate flapper from FP for ~$30 and have that installed while you have the machine work done. Justin or Austin should be able to do that for you no problem. Then you would have basically the same thing as the Evo3 turbine style, just not quite as lightweight but who really cares about that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
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  6. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

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    I apologize for not being clear. Since the TD06H and TD06H4 (11 blade TD06h) have the same spec, inducer and exducer, I just used TD06H as a reference.

    From my research the TD06H4 is a perfect candidate for my compressor wheel (3071). The TD06H4 isn't a Mitsu wheel either, its the same as the wheels in the new fp green.

    As far as the housing, the benefits of the Evo3 style housing are not much of a concern of mine. Yes the high nickel content and less weight do benefit, along with 34mm flapper and larger exhaust outlet, but I can always just port the old style 7cm housing to match my gasket and o2 housing. I am hoping that the TD06SL2 housing would be thicker allowing it to be machined to fit a TD06H4 wheel.

    Lame.....back to the drawing board, or find a 7cm hotside machined to fit a td06h.

    thanks for the knowledge and time.
     
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  7. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    to answer the question you need an early 6cm or 7cm housing, they have enough meat to fit 6H wheels. the inlet on early 7cm is same as rectangle shape as 14b 6cm housings. the newer 7cm housings have a trimmed flange to save weight.

    I would use the 6cm housing. the 6h 20g 6cm is one of the best turbos I tried. believe or not there were a handful of 5cm housing cast for early rally car teams. those work fantastic with 6h wheel as well.
     
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  8. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

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    Yea I know that I need the early housings. Needed to know if the new SL2 could be machined. Like I said, the hunt continues for a 7cm housing to machine


    I do love how you push the 20g in a 6cm housing. There have been threads that you and I both posted on and you mention this turbo combo.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/335073-sleeper-16g-20g.html#post151850517

    I do think that it will need a td06h wheel though, td05h in a 6cm with a 20g compressor wheel might not be the best combo compared to the TD06h and TD06h4 wheel. Unless you meant that by your last sentence, but I thought you might mean TD06h wheel in a 5cm housing. By the way, I really want to try this combo. I am waiting on funds to build this turbo. Maybe use a 3071 wheel instead of the 20g.
     
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  9. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I have tried 5h 20g 6cm. chokes up way to fast. good for 18psi maybe.
    I dont like the 5h mated to 20g in the 7cm. it needs 8cm, or twin scroll 10.5 or 12.0 to support 20g flow. the 8cm would be laggy. and the 7cm kills turbos quick. 20g deserves a bigger turbine to keep shaft speeds down

    hot ticket right now would be 6h4 billet 20g 6cm with ported shroud compressor cover. gettin a woody just thinking about it.
     
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  10. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

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    It is definitely doable. I personally know someone that has done it.

    You might run into problems with fitting the 3071 wheel in the compressor housing. They are a fairly tall wheel. There might not be enough meat to machine out of the compressor housing.
     
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  11. pj91gsx

    pj91gsx Freelancer

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    There is. It has been done before. Id like to grab one off the shelf and cut it in half and see how far i can actually go with it.
     
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  12. sqr

    sqr Proven Member

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    In a related question?. There are two sizes of sl2 wheels. An 06 and a 06h. The published specks for the taiwan 06 version has the exducer diameter slightly smaller than the mitsu 06 turbine. Will the 06 sls work properly in a housing cut for a mhi 06 turbine? Would the blade height be an issues?

    Blouch turbo said they did not have the program to machine my conquest housing for the tiawan sl2 and that it was crap bla, bla, so i went with the 06 mhi.
     
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  13. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    I believe you are wrong. There is a TD06SL2 that was never offered by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, then there are the MHI TD06, MHI TD06H, and there is the TD06H4 that is the same spec as a TD06H (drop-in replacement) with one less blade and different blade shape as well. The TD06H4 was also never offered by MHI.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Turbi...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ae1b2637

    The TD06H4 offers a claimed 15% reduction in backpressure....similar to a clipped MHI TD06H.

    To answer your question- no, you cannot effectively use a TD06SL2 turbine in a housing cut for a TD06 wheel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
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  14. sqr

    sqr Proven Member

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    That is the turbine i was calling a 06h sl2. I had not heard it called a H4 before. The add i saw did not actually call it an 06h sl2. But rather a 11 blade "06h"

    Has any one ever closely compared the taiwan 11 blade turbines with the "proprietary 11 blade turbines" being used by some of the name brand shops?
     
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  15. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Did you even look at the specs from the first post?


    I'll repost and add TD06 as well.

    TD06H:
    Inducer - 67.2mm
    Exducer - 58.8mm

    TD06:
    Inducer - 65mm
    Exducer - 55.1mm

    TD06SL2:
    Inducer - 61mm
    Exducer - 54mm

    TD05H:
    Inducer - 56mm
    Exducer - 49.2mm

    Here's a photo illustrating the TD05H (upper left), TD06 (upper right), and TD06SL2 (installed):
     

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  16. pj91gsx

    pj91gsx Freelancer

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    Are you saying this shaft was never offered in MHI turbos? My 24v has an tdo6h4 turbine. I posted up pictures last year and you confirmed it, remember?
     
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  17. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Not that I'm aware of- I was never able to get a MHI part number generated for the piece if they did.
     
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  18. AWD_FIEND

    AWD_FIEND Proven Member

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    I'm not sure if this is a dead topic but I'm hoping someone can comment about a similar turbine combination discussed previously in this thread that I have been considering. I have a unique setup I want to try but because of budgetary constraints I don't have the freedom to experiment with some of these turbine wheels to find out what will work. I need to increase the turbine flow of a 14b WITHOUT changing it's spool up characteristics. I don't care if the turbine matches the compressor in ultimate flow output since it will be a dual power adder setup. Really my paramount concern is increasing flow through the hotside of the turbo. My idea is to run a 7cm with a TD06SL2 but I'm not familiar with how this combo will affect the boost characteristics or whether it will be an improvement over a TD06H in a 6cm housing. If anyone can comment further let me know!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  19. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    I wouldn't.

    A larger-diameter turbine than necessary is going to effect airflow production as it has a larger rotating mass and reaches a slower peak speed....like how the Bullseye T04B V-Trim's compressor is typically a 44-45lb/min wheel on it's intended application but mated to a giant P-trim turbine in a .55 BEP housing it could barely outperform a Big 16G at 38 lb/min. So you could potentially create a laggy 14B which doesn't produce as much airflow as a standard TD05H 14B.
     
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  20. GST with PSI

    GST with PSI DSM Wiseman

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    Any setup with 2 power adders should be enough to push a 14b compressor far off the map. I think you'd have a hard time trying to control shaft speeds with that tiny compressor while trying to make any power with a second turbo. Not to mention, a 14b compressor working that hard will be making a ton of heat.

    A 14b coupled to any turbine seems like a bad idea for a dual power adder setup.
     
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  21. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I would say the 7cm with 6SL2 would still have plenty of exhaust energy to max a 14b out no problem. there would be no drop in max flow rate of compressor wheel. I actually think there would be an increase in max flow as it would be easier to get flow through engine with a nice drop in back pressure. however it will not be a free lunch. the turbo would be ~500rpm laggier than a 5H wheel in a 6CM.. all theory as I have never tried such a setup.

    I estimate this scenario as there is a 600whp graph of a billet 7blade 20g compressor wheel on evo m forums. no nitrous E 85. the turbo was built with a massive hotside for 20g. TD06H inside a 14cmT3 housing.. there was about 1000rpm lag over a quick spooling 20g setup.
     
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  22. AWD_FIEND

    AWD_FIEND Proven Member

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    I apologize for my previous post, it seems like a technical glitch cut off half my comment :(. I'll edit to reflect my initial interests.

    That's what I was referring to with not being concerned about whether the compressor side matches the turbine side since the primary engine output wont be relying on the the 14b. Really the smaller turbo is simply there to maintain the stock powerband and broaden the torque curve to support the second power adder since it's rather peaky. If you can make a different recommendation for a turbo or combination that provides very fast spool but flows VERY well on the hotside without concern about high power outputs, I'm all ears. Unfortunately most turbos are not designed with those goals in mind since they typically function as the primary power source.

    You are assuming the second power adder is a turbo, which in my case it's not :)

    As stated before it's a unique setup with a distant relation to nitrous, but very different. If it works I will post my results but first things first, I need a hotside that will work with a VERY small compressor wheel and MHI flange.

    500RPMs late isnt the end of the world on a 14b since mine currently hits 25psi at about 2800 RPM, but the question is will the trade off be worth it, and is there a better way to get the necessary exhaust flow without losing as much spool? Is the TD06SL2 the lightest/fastest spooling 06 wheel or is the H4 faster considering it has more blades and a shallower rake to capture thermal energy at lower velocities? Would a 6cm machined for a TD06SL2 provide enough exhaust flow to provide a discernable improvement over a 5H in the same housing? Would a 06H in a machined 6cm provide better spool up than a 06SL2 in a 7cm?

    So many possibilities, limited funds and time to try them all :(
     
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  23. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    the 11 blade 6sL2 wheel is indeed a lightweight fast spooling wheel. I used a 20g with this turbine and very impressed with it.. I think it would work VERY well in a machined 6CM housing. there is also a 9 blade version of this wheel that i have not used or even seen yet. but that may be what you are looking for. the 6H wont spool as fast. you havent stated how much WHP you are making on the setup. that would be helpful to give best advice.

    there is a guy on evo m who built a 20g (billet 11 blade) with 5H 9 blade turbine. he said it spooled faster than the stock 16g. he had dyno graph for proof. the 9 blade wheels are the lightest. so they should spool the fastest.
     
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  24. GST with PSI

    GST with PSI DSM Wiseman

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    I just don't understand why anyone would want to run a 14b at 25psi in any configuration. Hell, most of the 14b max effort guys aren't running those boost levels. Plot any mass flow rate @ a 2.7 pressure ratio on the 14b compressor map and you're just making hot air. What fuel does this planned setup of yours run on? Better not be pump, that's for sure.

    If I were in your position, I'd at least consider a 16g variant of some sort with a clipped TD05H turbine in a 7cm housing. I believe that would net some of the flow characteristics you're looking for without dramatically sacrificing spool.

    I still disagree with 94awdcoupe on his theories about the 6cm housing. Pairing that housing with a larger turbine seems utterly pointless to me. However, some of the 20G variants he's mentioning would be far better than any 14b/16g setup. The 6SL2 turbine paired with some of the lighter billet wheels can be made to spool ridiculously fast. And, those compressor wheels operate in efficiency ranges that will actually net you some decent power.

    Speaking of power, what's your target?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
    #24
  25. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    people who knock running 6h wheel in 6cm housing simply havent done it. I have a few times. including one time where i experimented with internal housing porting that made the 6cm housing perform pretty much just like a 7cm. I have run back to backs on the 20g with both cut 6cm and 7cm housings. one of the funnest turbos i ran was a greddy 18g upgraded with 6h wheel in 6cm housing. that turbo was bliss. the compressor wheel was later upgraded to the 20g. not nearly as fun lost about 250rpm spool.

    I have turbo building friends with knowledge who turned me on the the big wheel little housing thing. one made 425whp on 93 octane on a dsm 5cm hotside bored to fit 6h wheel. yes i said 5cm.

    another local made 600whp in a pinto. with huge a P-trim wheel stuffed into a tiny .36 a/r 5-bolt ford housing.

    so while appreciate people who have advice about using a 6cm housing I would take it with a grain of salt if they havent tried it. there are two ways to reduce back pressure. larger a/r, or larger wheel. the bigger wheel maintains faster spool of the two ways.
     
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