Talon Tsi AWD with 210k as daily driver?

Posted by jkuga, Apr 18, 2017
Newbie Forum - Beginner DSM modification questions and discussions. Common, repetitive, and general discussions will get dumped here from other tech forums. Unless you're a Probationary member you shouldn't post threads here.

Please Support ExtremePSI
  1. jkuga

    jkuga Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Silverton, Oregon
    So I have been looking for a DSM for a few months now. So far pretty much everything I have found has been pretty beat. However I was contacted by a member of these forums who is considering selling his 97 Tsi AWD. It has a evo 3 16g with 560 evo injectors, a fuel pump rewire kit, new clutch, balance shaft belt, timing belt, all the timing belt pulleys and idlers replaced. Its also got a MBC at 15ish psi and is tuned using Ceddy mods and evo scan. I have not had the chance to look at it in person yet because its about 2 and a half hours away from me but from the photos I have received it looks quite clean. It will need the ball joints replaced. The mileage sits at 210k miles. Asking price is 4k firm.
    So my question is do you guys think this car could be a daily driver? I can only afford one car at the moment. I think 210k is a lot of miles but it looks less trashed than all others I have seen with lower mileage. Any input is appreciated.
     
    #1
  2. PlanZero

    PlanZero Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Posts:
    988
    Likes Received:
    125
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    It all depends on many factors. Generally I would say no with that many miles, unless the motor was rebuilt in the last 100k. It may drive fine now (not sure if the seller dailies it), but at some point be prepared for engine failure, most detrimentally a spun rod bearing (happened to me at 148k, shortly after I bought it bone stock from original owner who provided meticulous maintenance schedules) so who knows. Whichever member is selling the car please don't take offense, but even with those modest upgrades the current motor is probably being pushed to it's limits.
    Be patient and try to find one with lower miles, preferably bone stock. You'll always pay less for a stock DSM because most of the time it will sell for kbb value due to the seller not being into modification, ntm the car will be less beat on. I just picked up my third current DSM (actually #13 all together), a bone stock GST Spyder in suprisingly good shape for $1600. That's kbb value. My last two cost $2000 and $2500, and would have still run fine as DD even without modding. Just my 2ยข
     
    #2
  3. tunedbysaturnsl

    tunedbysaturnsl Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Posts:
    69
    Likes Received:
    12
    Newport News, Virginia
    I'm going to play the devil's advocate on this one. 210k on the mileage is average. It puts average mileage per year at 10500. General rule of thumb is 12k/year I think?

    My DSM was my daily about two years back (down for FMIC and Brembo upgrades) and it's at 198k. Only failure it had was a pair of loose battery connectors and an alternator. But I keep an eye on things and keep my ears open for unusual sounds. Oh and I'm getting the dabbed P0443 CEL for the EVAP garbage I'll go chasing within the next week. Probably an old or loose hose.

    $4k firm may seem a bit high. But you won't know for sure until you look. Give it a critical once over and don't be afraid to walk away. Make sure all the stuff is in working order or something you'd be willing to deal with.

    Mine needed the front speakers hooked up when I bought it. (Not sure what my car's PO was thinking). But I've dealt with audio wiring before on my other car so it gave me a reason to pull the seats and carpet to check things out and tidy up.

    Otherwise, take a weekend or two for maintenance like your oil, coolant, etc. These cars like any car really have their quirks. And! Bookmark a couple DSM-related sites (here, Link, JMZ, Miller, etc) and download a factory service manual. I have a hard copy as well at home. But it's nice to bring it up on the 'Link netbook or phone for searching ease.
     
    #3
  4. 93AWDDSM

    93AWDDSM Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Posts:
    620
    Likes Received:
    17
    Vancouver, Washington
    All depends, I have a 1g with original motor and 206k miles. It's fwd though, no transfer case or driveline to worry about! I definitely keep an eye out and ear open for any unsual sounds. I also am only running 13lbs of boost and almost completely stock car except for 16g and a fmic. I'm going to have to replace the tie rod ends and Control arms here shortly. Mine has a tranny leak that has to be repaired by separating the transmission so I'm waiting on that for a little.



    Edit: I still have the sticker from a PO who had it serviced in 2011 with 150k miles on it, fast forward 2017 with 206k miles now. All between those 6 years the car was only driven 9.3k miles roughly per year. I also have the original handwritten service times input into the "talon" book. You might get lucky DD with that high of a mileage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    #4
  5. SouthIndy_Talon

    SouthIndy_Talon Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Posts:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greenwood, Indiana
    I daily 90 TSi everyday to work (75 miles roundtrip) without issue. My car has 196K miles on it. However, I did have to rebuild the motor at 165K due to a spun balance shaft bearing (balance shaft elimination kit would have prevented that). If that would have not happened, I still think my car would have been rock solid up to this point. It all depends on if the car was well taken care of though as mentioned above. I have owned my car since 1991, so I know the full history of my car.
     
    #5
  6. Tanro

    Tanro Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    2
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Posts:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    41
    Hanceville, Alabama
    My current Daily Driver has 242k on it. My last daily had 261k on it. (Turbo Mazdaspeed Miata). As long as its taken care of mileage is becoming less of an issue these days. Most engines will go 300-400k miles as long as you change the oil, timing belts, and keep everything working as intended.

    If the car is in good condition, there should be no issue. My highest mileage daily DSM was over 200k. And it was also a 16g car making over 300whp.
     
    #6
  7. PlanZero

    PlanZero Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Posts:
    988
    Likes Received:
    125
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    I have to modify my previous post. I just woke up. I didn't realize he was only running a 16g and 560s. The fact that the timing components were done recently is a huge plus. Ntm, any tsi is a good Tsi in my book. If you want do a compression test,make sure there's no rust (at 4k I wouldn't want any except slight surface rust), and take the trip. Still, 4k is a bit high for me, considering it's still a stock motor.
    I know I may get bashed for this, but awhile back I was experimenting with various eBay and cheaper rock auto control arms, ball joints, tie rods, etc., and I was very impressed with the Detroit axle brand (eBay) of control arms and BJs, the compression arms on my tsi are still as stiff and rust free as when I bought them, unlike my Moog lateral arms. In fact, I just ordered a complete front end kit (compression arms, lateral arms, upper ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, sway bar links, rack and pinion bellows too) for $160 shipped! My spyder still has the original components, and even though the boots are good they're sloppy as hell, so I'm replacing everything at once. I heard mixed reviews on Detroit axles wheel hubs, axles and racks, but my personal experience with their ball joints and arms is a good one.
     
    #7
  8. jkuga

    jkuga Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Silverton, Oregon
    Thanks a lot for all the replies guys I really appreciate it. I guess the biggest things for me are I'm not sure I want to risk something pretty big going on the motor that would cost a lot to fix as well as the fact that once I do get a DSM I plan to keep it for a good while and would want to go further than the current set up on this car. Given the high mileage though I'm not sure how wise that would be...
     
    #8
  9. orangutan

    orangutan Probationary Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Posts:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Kennewick, Washington
    In my experience on 1g cars, moog parts are worse than broken OEM parts. They make your car sound like the front end's gonna come apart if you drive over a bump at 10mph. ROFL
     
    #9
    PlanZero likes this.
  10. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Posts:
    88
    Likes Received:
    14
    London Area, Europe
    Pardon the quote, but getting a DSM is like getting a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get. I found mine as a 'runner' with only 27k miles. Had to do a full engine rebuild and the full shebang in terms of other parts and accessories.

    There will be three major factors with this. Firstly whether the car is in good overall shape (i.e. just needing very little things such as oils/filters and maybe a sensor or two), whether luck will be on your side and you wont spin a bearing right off the driveway. The third factor is that it's a 2GB Talon, which is the rarest of them all (okay technically Lasers are more rare but they were only 1Gs). That 4k price comes from roughly 3k for the car and mods itself, and another 1k just because it's a 2GB Talon in 'good shape'. Unless he's swapped the bumpers.

    I cannot advise you whether to get a DSM now or not (although I am heavily biased), but just wanted to give you some more tips. The other members have good suggestions as well.

    Good luck in any case!
     
    #10
  11. PlanZero

    PlanZero Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Posts:
    988
    Likes Received:
    125
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    Now if it was a 98 Tsi awd that would be a different story. I'd pay more than that, as the 98 is THE rarest of the rare, with the lowest production numbers and the revised 7 bolt.

    The other option, depending on your budget, garage space, and consistency in income, is to buy it, pick up a used 98-99 motor and slowly acquire parts for a full rebuild, and once rebuilt you have a ready to go spare motor to drop in just in case.
     
    #11
  12. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Posts:
    942
    Likes Received:
    231
    Houston, Texas
    If I were you I would buy a cheap daily then focus on getting a DSM. Life will be a lot less stressful that way. I remember my first car was a 91 fwd laser and it was my daily and toy car. It was so stressful trying to finish big projects in only a day or two.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    #12
    doubleclutch likes this.
  13. doubleclutch

    doubleclutch Supporting Member

    DSM Profiles:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Posts:
    470
    Likes Received:
    79
    Canton, Michigan
    I bought a Gs-t when I was 16. Should have waited. Wasted a lot of money on a car I couldn't really afford to modify and make it like I wanted. That and working on it was super stressful because it had to keep running.

    10 years later I bought my gsx and it sits in the garage and waits for me to work on it when I want to and have time to do the job at my pace and with the right parts. It is thoroughly more enjoyable.
     
    #13
    Vegas smith likes this.
  14. jkuga

    jkuga Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Silverton, Oregon
    Yeah I do have a good daily rn and the thing is that I would probably have to sell it at this point to afford a dsm. That's why I'd have to daily it. Idk if the mileage was lower it just makes me pretty uncomfortable where it is. But they all seem to be pretty up there.
     
    #14
  15. orangutan

    orangutan Probationary Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Posts:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Kennewick, Washington
    I know your pain, the pacific north west is completely devoid of these cars. I paid 3500 for my non-turbo 4g63 powered 90 model with 75k on the odometer and nothing wrong with it at all except one of the headlights not working on the low beam headlight channel. I was only willing to because I had been looking for a non turbo for 4 years.
     
    #15
  16. jkuga

    jkuga Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Silverton, Oregon
    Your telling me hah but four years that sucks... I've been looking for like 4 months. So far the only one I've looked at in person was beat to hell in everyway. It had a dollar store bandana for a shift boot.
     
    #16
    orangutan likes this.
  17. orangutan

    orangutan Probationary Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Posts:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Kennewick, Washington
    I bet he had a pretty embarrassing look on his face when he showed you that LOL
     
    #17
  18. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Posts:
    3,893
    Likes Received:
    512
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    After 25 years I'm of the opinion you shouldn't daily a dsm unless you can afford whatever breaks without stressing about the cost. The cars are just too old.
    I daily my 97 but I can also handle any repair/situation should something happen. That includes just going and buying a daily if the need were that bad. I wouldn't attempt a motor swap if this ever blows. I'll simply buy another car and fix this at my leisure. I have a spare motor and trans also.
    I wouldn't buy a 210k car and expect to daily it.
     
    #18
    Mauispyder and orangutan like this.
  19. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Posts:
    3,893
    Likes Received:
    512
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    Also my co workers think I'm crazy but if I have a major repair I can just uber to work a few days. I haven't had a car payment since 1997. Who's crazy now?
     
    #19
  20. PlanZero

    PlanZero Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Posts:
    988
    Likes Received:
    125
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    The stress of having to fix a daily on a daily basis wore me thin on many occasions, especially if god forbid you don't have a garage. It was a learning experience to say the least. The good thing about this platform is most parts are cheap and plentiful. Once I built my Tsi I had to get a true daily, if for no other reason than fear that something catastrophic would happen to my baby, so I got a somewhat more reliable jeep xj. I love fu**ing with my buddies about how all 3 of my dsms and my jeep, along with all repairs and upgrades, dont add up to the cost of a newer evo or wrx. My buddy's charger payment is more than my mortgage payment. Ridiculous.
     
    #20
    93AWDDSM likes this.
  21. 93AWDDSM

    93AWDDSM Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Posts:
    620
    Likes Received:
    17
    Vancouver, Washington
    it's just why your one of our wisemen!

    Very true on not Dailying a 4g63t with high mileage, stuff tends to break and repairs don't always go as flaswless as you expect sometimes. I have had some close calls on repairs as I daily mine.
     
    #21
  22. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Posts:
    942
    Likes Received:
    231
    Houston, Texas
    It is pretty amazing how much money you save when you don't buy new cars. I can't foresee myself ever buying new.
     
    #22
    PlanZero likes this.
  23. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

    DSM Profiles:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Posts:
    82
    Likes Received:
    11
    Clifton, New_Jersey
    I daily my 1g. But only in winter, summer time I daily my evo. So I don't see anything wrong with dd a 4g63t. My 1g has about 170k and sees 22psi often. Now I don't launch or drag with it. Been like that for the last 3 years. Every winter I have to do some fixing. First winter caliper froze, master leaked and killed the booster. Second winter timing belt tensioner went nuts. Third winter clutch master leaked and cooling fan failed. Other then that she is a good runner considering the age. But in your case I would not buy such high mileage car for daily use. You need to have another car.
     
    #23
    93AWDDSM likes this.
  24. jkuga

    jkuga Probationary Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Silverton, Oregon
    Well I just wanted to thank everyone for giving me their opinion. I passed on the talon based on your guys advise and my own feeling. I'm starting to think I will probably have to wait till next spring when I graduate college to get a DSM. That way I can keep my daily and have a DSM.
     
    #24
  25. doubleclutch

    doubleclutch Supporting Member

    DSM Profiles:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Posts:
    470
    Likes Received:
    79
    Canton, Michigan
    smart decision. You won't regret it.
     
    #25
    jkuga likes this.

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Ace Race Parts Advanced Fuel Injection Archer Fabrication Boostin Performance ECM Tuning Extreme Turbo Systems ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions Jackson Auto Machine JNZ Tuning Magnus Motorsports Miller Import Parts OHM Racing Race Components Inc RockAuto RoadSurge Spultronix Performance STM Tuned Strictly Import Motorsports VR Speed Factory