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Resolved Starter Mounting Problem w/ Pic

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thejollyrancher

10+ Year Contributor
307
13
Mar 31, 2012
calgary, AB_Canada
Im doing a motor swap nd i finally got it all figured out. As I have the engine over the car i notice that the starter bolts dont line up properly. Im using a 92 block in a 90 tsi. Can anyone figure out whats going on? Is this a difference between years that i didnt account for, or have i mounted something wrong?
 

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No - the position of where the starter mounts in the plate (closer or further away from the flywheel than the other starter plate).

Im not sure i follow. The only purpose i can See this plate serving is as a spacer. It doesnt secure the starter in place, and it doesnt protect the bell housing mounting points much as some others have suggested. The difference between a plate and no plate is only the thickness of it. If thats true, why not use washers?

is it an awd tranny and the starter plate from a fwd?

Yup you got it
 
So it doesn't act as a seal around the trans to the block and keep debris out? Go ahead and use washers I wouldn't. Why don't you just cut the plate out more where the starter bolts in and then this whole thread wouldn't have happened.
 
So it doesn't act as a seal around the trans to the block and keep debris out? Go ahead and use washers I wouldn't. Why don't you just cut the plate out more where the starter bolts in and then this whole thread wouldn't have happened.

Take a look at the picture. Simply cutting out the bolts further isnt going to solve anything. A gasket doesnt keep debris out. A gasket seals two surfaces. Im not looking for random speculation, does anyone actually know what this plate does for the starter that washers wouldnt? Aside from blocking out debris.

If thats all it does i can just take a small cutting wheel to it and keep the plate but cut out the starter portion. Effectively allowing the starter to bolt on and blocking out debris.
 
It is more than a spacer. If you look at the shape at the base of the nose of the starter you will see that it fits tightly into that plate. The hole in the plate locates the gear on the starter at the proper location to engage the flywheel correctly. Even if you open up the holes, the location will not be correct and you will probably not have proper engagement. resulting in a damaged starter gear, flywheel teeth or both.
 
I can be fairly certain that washers of the same thickness allow the starter to sit on a level plane relative to the flywheel, but thats a possibility

It is more than a spacer. If you look at the shape at the base of the nose of the starter you will see that it fits tightly into that plate. The hole in the plate locates the gear on the starter at the proper location to engage the flywheel correctly. Even if you open up the holes, the location will not be correct and you will probably not have proper engagement. resulting in a damaged starter gear, flywheel teeth or both.

Hmm ill check this out. It seems odd that the manufacturer wouldnt rely on the mounting points on the bellhousing to do the same job rather than using the plate
 
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They work in tandem. It allows for flywheel variations to fit the same clutch housing with the starter position being movable.
 
The plate doesn't only works as spacer but it is there to align the starter to the flywheel,.

A FWD flywheel has different dimension (bigger) then the AWD flywheel,, so saying that, the position of the starter on a FWD needs to be far out to be align to the teeth of the FWD flywheel,. This is why you need to use a FWD plate on a FWD transmission, if you use the FWD plate on an AWD transmission you will get the starter far out and won't align with the AWD flywheel.

The only way to use a FWD plate on an AWD transmission is using a FWD flywheel, (BUT WE ALL KNOW THE FWD FLYWHEEL WONT FIT AN AWD TRANSMISSION).
 
Hmm ill check this out. It seems odd that the manufacturer wouldnt rely on the mounting points on the bellhousing to do the same job rather than using the plate
Those holes in the transmission have upwards of 3mm of slop in them. That doesn't do much for accurately or precisely locating anything.

Think about it from the transmission side rather than the starter side. You're effectively putting a shim underneath the clutch fork fulcrum ball the thickness of that plate. Forget starter engagement -- this is going to affect your clutch engagement.
 
Those holes in the transmission have upwards of 3mm of slop in them. That doesn't do much for accurately or precisely locating anything.

Think about it from the transmission side rather than the starter side. You're effectively putting a shim underneath the clutch fork fulcrum ball the thickness of that plate. Forget starter engagement -- this is going to affect your clutch engagement.

I havent noticed any slop, but ill go do some testing. If there is that much slop then Ill probably take everything back apart and stick in a proper plate. As for the transmission side, im just debating whether or not to quickly cut out the starter portion of the plate, so the rest should stay the same.
 
Mitsu only put them in for a reason! Lol it's funny how many times this comes up. Get the right plate or plan on problems, that simple. The starter portion is the whole reason it's there bro! Also if your doing a motor swap why did the starter plate change? Is it on the dowels correctly? And 90's are said to have the most diff from any other year, might be a issue there.
 
Mitsu only put them in for a reason! Lol it's funny how many times this comes up. Get the right plate or plan on problems, that simple. The starter portion is the whole reason it's there bro! Also if your doing a motor swap why did the starter plate change? Is it on the dowels correctly? And 90's are said to have the most diff from any other year, might be a issue there.

This is exactly my point. I know Mitsu put it in for a reason, Im just trying to figure out what that reason is. A lot of other threads just end with 'put it in idiot'. Im just trying to figure out if people know why. I used a FWD in an AWD, difference is due to this, not year.
 
Then that's the problem just like you have been told. Awd and fwd use different size flywheels and therefore the starter location moves. It simply helps align and keep it engaging properly. I've read countless threads where guys forgot and right away had issues!
Flywheel sizes are different so starter location is pretty critical and determined by the shim/mount plate.
http://projectzerog.com/transmissions.shtml
 
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The holes in the bellhousing for the starter measure 13mm. The starter bolts are M10s meaning they will be just a bit under 10mm nominal diameter; a quick measure with calipers confirms this. That's a difference of about 0.120 inches -- enough to prematurely wear or destroy a Bendix or a flywheel ring gear.

The starter has a ring that fits the plate, as iceman510 mentioned earlier, that provides a bearing surface and a "nest" for support and precise alignment. It measures about 77mm. The hole in the plate measures no more than a half millimeter greater than that creating a nice slip fit. Further, the holes in the starter plate measure about 11mm. This means that if you simply cut off that portion of the plate to make it fit wherever you needed to, you still would have 4mm total slop to play around with. Since the plate is held in place by all bellhousing bolt holes, the position of the starter is very precise. Eliminating that part of the plate and using washers leaves much to be desired with alignment.
 
Ill probably take everything back apart and stick in a proper plate.

Really the only correct course of action. Please proceed. You have been given the reasons accurately in previous posts.
 
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