Starter Issue with Auto JDM tranny install

[DSMDirkah]

Here is the setup :
95 Talon
JDM AWD Automatic
7 bolt engine
Automatic starter plate (USDM)

When the starter is engaged, it will spin freely or grind on flywheel (torque converter). I have used all the parts that came with the JDM swap to include:

-Starter
-Flex plate
-Torque converter

I have tried another AWD Automatic starter and it does the same. I bench tested both starters and they both look good out of the car (The starter gear completely travels to the top). I rebuilt the engine at the same time so the engine and tranny were mated out of the car. When I did this, I made sure the the TC was seated in properly and it seemed fine.

Has anyone had a problem like this? Maybe I have 2 bad starters (unlikely). Any help with this is greatly appreciated as I am now stumped. I think that there is definitely an alignment issue, but it doesn't make sense that both bolts go through the transmission as they should and I am using the correct starter plate. Thanks

 

[dented_coffee]

Was the starter an OEM unit specifically for that JDM trans, or was it a reman or aftermarket unit?

Why I ask is because I have seen starters on vehicles that mount up and are exactly the same but the gear in the neck of the starter was of a larger diameter.

If there is a part number on the starter can you please post it and I can do some extensive research on the parts for you. I have done it on a few transmissions for members on tuners and mitsu media. I would have no problem looking threw some info and getting info from a few of my sources.

 

[DSMDirkah]

Was the starter an OEM unit specifically for that JDM trans, or was it a reman or aftermarket unit?

Why I ask is because I have seen starters on vehicles that mount up and are exactly the same but the gear in the neck of the starter was of a larger diameter.

If there is a part number on the starter can you please post it and I can do some extensive research on the parts for you. I have done it on a few transmissions for members on tuners and mitsu media. I would have no problem looking threw some info and getting info from a few of my sources.

Both the JDM starter and the USDM automatic starter are OEM. They look the same on the outside but I know that can be deceiving. I looked at the part numbers on them and they looked the same. I will get some more info and post up it up. Thank you for your help.

 

[viperlp01]

There is no difference between any year for starters. There is also no such thing as a JDM 2g transmission. But that is besides the point. You should post some pictures of the trans and the starters. Does the engine spin freely by hand? Did you make sure that the dowel pins were installed between the engine and tranny and that the starter plate was correctly aligned. All it needs to be off is a 1/4in and it will cause headaches.

 

[Burnett03]

I've heard numerous times that the 2g auto jdm trannies don't work due to the bellhousing being to short.

 

[viperlp01]

How is there a 2g JDM transmission and how in the hell is the bellhousing different. Every 2g was built in the U.S. of A. Does this trans come out of a different vehicle than a T/E? It doesn't make any sense. If you use everything that came from the donor vehicle it should work but yet again this "jdm" trans must come from a different model or something.

 

[whe3ls]

pvr/summit/colt vista ect, other cars can with 4g's other than dsm.... so did you get the tcu for that trans?

I've heard numerous times that the 2g auto jdm trannies don't work due to the bellhousing being to short.

not short but too narrow. 4g's come in wide and narrow blocks, mainly wide or narrow bell housings

 

[DSMDirkah]

There is no difference between any year for starters. There is also no such thing as a JDM 2g transmission. But that is besides the point. You should post some pictures of the trans and the starters. Does the engine spin freely by hand? Did you make sure that the dowel pins were installed between the engine and tranny and that the starter plate was correctly aligned. All it needs to be off is a 1/4in and it will cause headaches.

There is such a thing as an Auto JDM 2g transmission. This one came out of the RVR I think.

The engine spins free by hand.

The dowel pins are in. I made sure when I put the engine on.

Pretty sure the starter plate was aligned as I said before, the bolts will go through the tranny bell housing and the plate. Maybe it is off a hair?

Thanks for the response.

Ok here are some pics of what I have going on:

Here is the JDM starter installed (Seems to be the same as every other DSM starter I have messed with though)

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Here are some pics of the TC through where the starter goes. You can see where it has been grinding

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Here is a side by side comparison of both of the starters (JDM on left)

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Another of the gear inside (JDM)

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The gear inside the USDM

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Part numbers:

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Oh and I should have been more clear in my last post:

You are correct that there is no such thing as a 2g JDM tranny but there are JDM trannys out there that will work. I am doing such a thing and it has been a real pain .

So my gut is telling me that the TC is too far back for some reason. I am going to drop the transfer case and check out the flexplate again. If anyone sees something that I do not, please throw it out there. Thanks

 

[DSMDirkah]

Still no luck. I dropped the TC and removed the lower inspection cover. Took the flex plate bolts out and everything looks like it should as in the plate is offset towards the block. The torque converter spins freely as it should. I moved it back to show this in the pics:

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The only thing that I think it could be is that this flex plate is the wrong one for the car? It seems as though the starter teeth are too far from the starter. Please if anyone sees something that I am doing wrong or have run across this before, let me know.

 

[DSMDirkah]

Anyone have any ideas before I drop the tranny back out??

 

[olddsmer]

I did notice the slight difference in the numbers on the starter. The JDM may very well be different. I know they were all made in the USA but they still had to make stuff specifically for the Japanese market. I know I had a manual tranny that was JDM and it was switchable from AWD to FWD. Good luck with your project.

Regards
Greg

 

[DSMDirkah]

So I have been unmotivated to actually pull the tranny back out just yet. For the life of me, I can't see why it won't just work. Here is something that I have been thinking about.

Maybe everything is correct, but there is that nipple looking thing in the center of the torque converter which is not allowing it to fully sit in when I put on the four TC bolts. I am going to try to move the TC around and see if I can get it to sit in better before I add the bolts.

If this doesn't work I am going to just drop the tranny back out which is looking like a 85% possibility.

Another thing that I have read is that people use the flex plate out of a 93-94 DSM to make this work. I am wondering how different they are and if anyone has any measurements on them.

 

[tundra2000]

I got the same problem and don't know what to do.

 

[DSMDirkah]

Ok update:

I dropped the tranny and found out that the JDM flex plat cannot be correct. So if there is anyone out there putting a JDM Auto 7 bolt tranny in their car, DO NOT use the JDM flexplate as it will not work!

If there is anyone out there who has pics of a stock USDM 7 bolt flex plate, I would appreciate it for comparison. Anywho here are some pics

JDM flexplate

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Notice how the plate is near flat! The problem is that it would not position the TC close enough to the starter to let it engage it.

Here are some comparison pics of a Kiggly flex plate I had lying around

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Notice there is a much greater offset! I think that this is the issue.

 

[w1kk3d]

I found this thread while googling, and I'm gonna necro it to give it closure, and show the difference between flexplates.

I also purchased a complete "jdm" engine, that I later discovered is from a Mitsu RVR Hyper Gear. (It came with the turbo/ecu/alternator/etc.etc.)

I'm sure you know by now that you needed the one that is first in my picture (which came from my 1998 Eclipse Spyder FWD A/T).
The one from my 98 has indented 'ears', that are set back about 1/4".

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[miguelmcv]

Wow, I am glad that I found this thread.
I am looking to buy a JDM AWD Manual Transmission and it looks the same with the only difference of the Speed Sensor. Ours is an electrical one and JDM is a manual (Cable).
Here is a link from the JDM Transmission.

JDM Engine Depot

Any one knows if it fits our 2g Cars?.

Sorry I didn't meant to hack this thread.

 

[DSMDirkah]

I found this thread while googling, and I'm gonna necro it to give it closure, and show the difference between flexplates.

I also purchased a complete "jdm" engine, that I later discovered is from a Mitsu RVR Hyper Gear. (It came with the turbo/ecu/alternator/etc.etc.)

I'm sure you know by now that you needed the one that is first in my picture (which came from my 1998 Eclipse Spyder FWD A/T).
The one from my 98 has indented 'ears', that are set back about 1/4".

Thank you sir.

 

[whyghtAllWe"ll]

I found a solution to this issue. I had about 4 starters in my collection of dsm parts. out of the 4 I found 1 starter that was different. it's part number MIT70483. This starters housing is about half an inch longer than the starters that we have been ending up with(MIT75981, MIT73383). when this starter was installed no more grinding, instant start. replacing to a jdm auto trans will consist of several parts.

1: jdm torque converter
2: jdm flywheel (USDM flywheel is longer and has step thats brings TC closer to starter)
3: jdm half shaft (as USDM half shaft is longer than jdm)
4: this starter MIT70483, this is a USDM made in Ohio, USA

i will post a picture of this starter in comparison. shortly

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starter on left is MIT70483 and MIT73383 is on right side of pic

 

[DSMDirkah]

Awesome info! I am going to link this thread with one in the automatic transmission section for archival purposes. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/aut...dm-trans-95-talon-awd-auto.html#post152637892

whyghtAllWe"ll: What did you do on the electrical side of things as I found out that the JDM tranny does not have a lock up torque converter. Thank you for sharing the info.

I think that figuring out a definitive solution to put these trannys in 2g DSM's is going to be a huge help to people because of how cheap you can find these on the internet. The USDM Auto's sell for sooo much more.

 

[FP3065TSI]

Anyone know where, or how to buy a MIT70483 starter?!?

 

[caseyrock]

Good work on figuring it out!

 

[FP3065TSI]

I've been havin trouble trying to find a starter that will work for this jdm transmission.
Anyone know where to go about trying to find a way to link up the MIT70483 starter? I have googled the part number and no success, any help would be appreciated.

 

[bsbllfit7]

Any more information on this, i just picked up a talon today that seems to have this exact problem. I was told the transmission had been replaced and it looks to be a jam one. I am having a grinding issue when starting and it nearly never starts. Maybe one in a while if i continue trying to start it. Once it starts it drives fine but its a pain in the arse to actually start it. Someone please let me know if they find more information on this starter situation.

 

[w1kk3d]

I've been havin trouble trying to find a starter that will work for this jdm transmission.
Anyone know where to go about trying to find a way to link up the MIT70483 starter? I have googled the part number and no success, any help would be appreciated.

Any more information on this, i just picked up a talon today that seems to have this exact problem. I was told the transmission had been replaced and it looks to be a jam one. I am having a grinding issue when starting and it nearly never starts. Maybe one in a while if i continue trying to start it. Once it starts it drives fine but its a pain in the arse to actually start it. Someone please let me know if they find more information on this starter situation.

*update update*
Forgot about this thread.

My starter took a dump last year, replaced it with one from Advance Auto, works fine.

It was identical to the one I had been using from my original junk engine.

 

[Mingor1]

I know this is an old thread but the pic of the starters isn't working. I bought a 95 gst auto and having this same issue. Engine was replaced by previous owner and has had this issue ever since. I have bought 2 different starters from Orielly's and none of them worked. Right now I have 17217 starter from Orielly auto.