1G spun rod bearing. options?

[Cdc1221]

So heres the story. Ive got 15k miles on a rebuild. I had a turbo oil line blow and dump all my oil. New oil goes in and restart and ive got a slight tick. Tick tick goes to knock knock and ive got a spun bearing and a bad crank. Getting a new crank this weekend. My question is should i just replace the crank and t-belt and ride on, or do a complete rebuild. Bear in mind that alongwith this crank, im getting two spare blocks and components, so im already planning on building a stroker later. Just want the car back on the road so i can park my bike and rering it.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Sorry to hear about your luck. I wouldn't consider the crank to be junk just yet. If you shut the engine down soon after you heard the knock the crank may not be damaged. Hopefully the bearing took all of the abuse. Have a machine shop clean, magnaflux and mic the crank to determine if it's garbage or not. In any event, the whole engine needs to be disassembled and cleaned to remove all of the metal particles. If you just replace the crank without cleaning out the block, the particles will remain and eat up your new bearings. You'll also need to replace your oil pump, oil cooler and oil cooler lines because there is no way to clean them out thoroughly.

 

[BogusSVO]

^^^^ all that!! JAM is spot on!!

One thing to add is have the big end of the connecting rods checked. Make sure they are still round and in spec.

 

[YZFR1]

You'll also need to replace your oil pump, oil cooler and oil cooler lines because there is no way to clean them out thoroughly.

Why isn't it possible to clean out the oil pump after disassembling it?


To the OP, open up your oil filter and see what's inside. Then decide if you need to do any of the above

 

[And_44]

Why isn't it possible to clean out the oil pump after disassembling it?


To the OP, open up your oil filter and see what's inside. Then decide if you need to do any of the above

Why risk it? Oil pump isn't that much compared to redoing the job again.

 

[Cdc1221]

I didnt think about that. Oh well might as well throw fresh rings and all in it. And ive already miced the crank. Its out. The machine shop wants 180 to regrind. I found a guy who's gonna sell me two disassembled '63s for $100 including a new crank so i got lucky on that . Dont these engines use a two gear oil pump? Those are easily cleaned and reused

 

[narf]

you're throwing your money away buying a new oil pump if that 1 is an oem and only has 15,000 miles at 250 a pop.

 

[And_44]

Most people if they do a simple rebuild don't replace the oil pump. I've seen some posts and people saying they're going 200k miles on their original oil pump with no noticable pressure lose. And the OP never said the oil pump was replaced 15k ago just a rebuild.

But if you have it all torn apart now minus well pull the oil pump and take a look at it. Check out the gears on it check for any worn surface. \

Could be cleanable. Worth a looksie. Just hold of on ordering a new one until you've cleaned and inspected the old. But as for the lines and oil cooler those are diffently not worth the risk in cleaning no real way to see inside those tubing.

If it was my engine I'd just hold off putting it all back together one more paycheck and order that new oil pump. Peace of mind and if OEM something you could assume would last just as long as the original.

 

[Cdc1221]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess i will go through it all. Then when i build the other engine, i can sale this one as a low mileage reliable engine to someone who needs it

 

[JacksonAuto]

The situation with the oil pump is very simple- there are small passages inside where dirt and grime can accumulate and are impossible to clean and be certain that you got it all out. A new oil pump is cheap insurance. If the OP was doing a standard rebuild on an engine that didn't experience a catastrophic failure which resulted in particulate contamination, then I would have suggested that he simply disassemble, clean, measure the clearances, assemble and reinstall the pump. After a spun bearing this is most definitely not advisable.

 

[bryanwheat]

The situation with the oil pump is very simple- there are small passages inside where dirt and grime can accumulate and are impossible to clean and be certain that you got it all out. A new oil pump is cheap insurance. If the OP was doing a standard rebuild on an engine that didn't experience a catastrophic failure which resulted in particulate contamination, then I would have suggested that he simply disassemble, clean, measure the clearances, assemble and reinstall the pump. After a spun bearing this is most definitely not advisable.

There really aren't any small passages in the oil pump other than the oil hole for the balance shaft journal. The rest of the passages are half open and easily cleaned. There are far more passages in the head and block, would you recommended replacing the block and head after a bearing failure? If there is no damage to the pump, and everything is in spec i would clean it and use it no problem.

A big problem i see a lot of machine shops and people building engines make is to not pull the balls out of the oil passages on the crank and clean inside the crankshaft. I would be willing to bet that 90 percent of new rebuilds that don't last can be attributed to this.

 

[JacksonAuto]

The passages inside a block and head can all be cleaned out thoroughly. You'll never find a reputable engine builder, especially one that specializes in upgraded high performance engines, that reuses an oil pump. Only DIY'ers that are trying to stretch a dollar then wonder why their new build failed.

 

[narf]

The passages inside a block and head can all be cleaned out thoroughly. You'll never find a reputable engine builder, especially one that specializes in upgraded high performance engines, that reuses an oil pump. Only DIY'ers that are trying to stretch a dollar then wonder why their new build failed.

so after buying a brand new oil pump, at 300 dollars..... the bearings spins from the reliable machine shops work..... you would advise your customer to buy another oil pump?

 

[mattasi]

You'll never find a reputable engine builder, especially one that specializes in upgraded high performance engines, that reuses an oil pump. Only DIY'ers that are trying to stretch a dollar then wonder why their new build failed.

English Racing (very reputable) built my longblock and they cleaned and reused my oil pump. I wanted a new one, but they said that if nothing was wrong with it and all the gears were good that it will be just fine. 4K miles on the motor now and no problems. It was a rebuild from a spun rod bearing.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I've stated our stance and wont engage in an argument. If you want to risk a complete build over a $200 part then be my guest but I'm not about to put my shops reputation on the line for it.

 

[WES_393]

I've stated our stance and wont engage in an argument. If you want to risk a complete build over a $200 part then be my guest but I'm not about to put my shops reputation on the line for it.

Exactly. Most rebuilds are a result of oiling issues. While you have everything apart, why not replace a potentially problematic component? Becaue it can be cleaned and reused? In that case I think I'll rinse out my oil filters and reuse them. There's nothing "wrong" with them, they're just dirty.

Only on DSMTuners could people get offended by a shop suggesting the use of new parts.

 

[YZFR1]

Big difference between oil filter and mechanical oil pump gears with huge passages to push carb cleaner through. Like bryanwheat said, some of the block/head passages are smaller and harder to clean out than that.

 

[MIdsm]

IIRC the oil pump has a small oil feed that goes from the right side of the first crank bearing, looking at the front of the engine, and feeds the front side of both shafts in the oil pump. Contamination may build/catch in there and cause the oil pump to seize later on.

On the other hand one could try ultrasonic cleaning in a strong cleaner/solvent followed by a high pressure wash/rinse; repeat till oil pump is assumed clean.

Good luck.

 

[bryanwheat]

The passages inside a block and head can all be cleaned out thoroughly.

As can the 2 passages in side the oil pump.

You'll never find a reputable engine builder, especially one that specializes in upgraded high performance engines, that reuses an oil pump. Only DIY'ers that are trying to stretch a dollar then wonder why their new build failed.

Mitsubishi does sell gears separately also, which would mean that you can reuse the case and install new gears if the case is in spec.

I've stated our stance and wont engage in an argument. If you want to risk a complete build over a $200 part then be my guest but I'm not about to put my shops reputation on the line for it.

When you re-use a factory crank do you remove the balls from the oil passages, clean them out and install a new plug?

IIRC the oil pump has a small oil feed that goes from the right side of the first crank bearing,

The cylinder head has smaller passages that feed the cams, would it be logical to replace the head instead of cleaning the passages?

 

[Cdc1221]

Sorry guys didnt mean to start a war! Thanks bryan. Youve posted in a few of my threads before and i appreciate the advice. As for the pump, honestly, the oil has to travel through the filter, so it will clean any particles out of the system. So it stands to reason that even if you miss one small shaving in the oil passage, it will get pulled through the filter.

 

[BogusSVO]

Looks like it breaks down to personal prefrance to decide on new oil pump, or clean, rebuild the old one.

Some builders may choose to run the oild oil pump if it checks out.... That is there choice. They may feel the oil pump is ok, and take the time to go thu it.

This is just a guess on my part, But I would bet, at sometime in the past, That JAM may have used an old oill pump in a build, and got bit on it, so as a Pro shop, they put in place a "no old oil pump used" policy.

There is nothing wrong with that at all.

English Brothers feels that the odds are in there favor, and will clean/rebuild a used oil pump and run it, that is there policy.

Nothing wrong with that either.

I have built engines with both new and used oil pumps.

I have even mixed and matched parts from 3 or 4 oil pumps to get one the way I wanted, but that is for my own personal use.

Would I do that for a customer... NO.

 

[importracr317]

Cheap-ass DSmers arguing with reputable builders....good grief. What costs more? A rebuild? Or a new oil pump? When you spin a bearing, that crap gets EVERYWHERE and it turns oil into extrude honing paste. Not good.

Yeah, just spray some brake cleaner in a spun rod bearing oil pump and blow it out....good enough . Do what you want, but expect to get laughed at when you're back here whining about another rebuild. (Not directed at the OP).

I swear, someone arguing with a vendor like JAM must be out of their mind....(or Buschur, English, OStar, et al).

 

[Awdspyderman]

i have to ask(bryanwheat or JAM or bogus) how do you get those little balls out of the crankshaft? I got my crank back from the machine shop and even tho they hot tanked it, the machine shop guy suggested that i clean the crank with hot soapy water, than spray all the oil passages with brake cleaner to make sure all the gunk comes out? And let me tell you that there was ALOT of metallic flakes in the water after that, i tried spraying around the passages behind the ball but i couldn't get it to shoot thru. I also used compressed air to clean it up but i couldn't get it to shoot out around the ball. Sorry bout the off topic question but to the OP i would just buy another new oem pump so it's one less part that you have to worry about. I also am rebuilding my motor from a spun bearing so i understand the issue with the front case but i will be buying a new one,some guys get away with using topline,autozone parts but my luck would be that if i bought a topline it would cost me a motor,so i would rather pay now than pay later you know=). Good luck

 

[bryanwheat]

Cheap-ass DSmers arguing with reputable builders....good grief. What costs more? A rebuild? Or a new oil pump? When you spin a bearing, that crap gets EVERYWHERE and it turns oil into extrude honing paste. Not good.

Yeah, just spray some brake cleaner in a spun rod bearing oil pump and blow it out....good enough . Do what you want, but expect to get laughed at when you're back here whining about another rebuild. (Not directed at the OP).

I swear, someone arguing with a vendor like JAM must be out of their mind....(or Buschur, English, OStar, et al).

How many engines have you built? There is no 100 percent certain way to build an engine. I have great respect for JAM, but just because they do something one way doesn't mean that 100 other machine shops don't do it another way, and doesn't make it wrong. Do you know how many oil passages are in the oil pump, and where they are located? Do you know how to clean them out properly? There is a such thing as a gun brush, and pipe cleaners and so on that work real well. According to your theory you should buy a new block, and a new head every time you have a bearing problem, after all there are WAY more passages in them that need to be cleaned right.

 

[BogusSVO]

AWDSpyderman.... Those balls do not come out easy... I have a junk crank I have tinked with tryin to get them out.

About the best method I have heard is taking the crank to a welding shop, and have them Tig it so the balls fall/dissolve out....