2G So confused about my top end(Head, Tstat housing, water pipe, IM, TB)

[Talyn]

So I just picked up a 2g with a full 6 bolt swap (supposedly anyway) And I am really confused atm about which parts are which generation. I have been searching for pictures for hours now and am still unclear on things. This all started when I began searching for a new water pipe(the one coming from the water pump) and none of them seemed to look right, unfortunately the car isn't where I am so I can't just get a better look, and all the pictures I took wound up being useless(it was night time and I had minimal lighting).
I can't tell from my pics how exactly my water pipe connects to the tstat housing, but it does NOT go into the radiator, both radiator hoses attach at the tstat housing, from the images I found this appears to be a 2g thing, but I don't remember my last car being setup that way??
The shape of my IM appears to be 1g, and it also appears to have the vertical lines(but segmented??) yet it has an MDP, and a vacuum line right next to it which appears to only be on 2gs??
EM definitely appears to be 2g?

Any help figuring out what I have would be greatly appreciated...I need to order parts, preferably BEFORE I go to the car again...I'll include the relevant pics I have, but they are kind of worthless or I might not be so lost...

 

[Talyn]

2 more pics I missed.

 

[Dsmkauai]

The water pipe Hooks up to the lower radiator hose. It also has 2 smaller ports for the turbo and I think oil cooler. The upper hose (blue) goes to the upper radiator port and lower (black) one goes to lower radiator port. No other way it would go bro. Could be a 6bolt bottom end with a 2g head. It could be a first gen 7bolt to.

 

[Talyn]

No, you can clearly see in the last pic that the lower rad hose is coming off the tstat housing...I found some diagrams at some point that showed what appeared to be a water pipe going into the tstat housing, can't remember for which generation though...

 

[Dsmkauai]

You really need better pics bro. Looks like 2 diff setups mashed into one . I can see the water pipe behind the turbo and it looks to go up to the t-housing. Like in this pic. Pretty sure your car has a 7bolt still bro. Need to check your oil pan to verify.

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[dustyboner]

intake manifold, throttle body, exhaust manifold and thermostat housing all appear to be 2g

1g should be like this

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2g

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[Boomdeeze]

If I were you, I would verify what bottom end you have in your car. It looks by the pictures(Which are horrible by the way) that you have a 2g thermostat housing, 2g intake manifold which would make me believe you have a 2g head. Now you can have a 2g head on a 6 bolt block (I do) but modifications were required to do that. If it is a 1g head with a 2g water pipe and 2g thermostat housing, you need to switch the intake manifold as the runners do not match. I'm starting to think he BS'd his way to a sale by stating it had the 6 bolt swap. It does have the 1g CAS but maybe he converted to the 1g CAS to make it appear to be a 6 bolt and bolted that CAS to a 2g head.

 

[Dsmkauai]

97 and up 2g's have that style cas

 

[Boomdeeze]

97 and up 2g's have that style cas

Aren't the 2g CAS's shaped more like a triangle than the circular 1G style? Looking at the wiring too it looks like the wiring was done for the 1G CAS but then again it is not the best picture to judge that statement by.

 

[pauleyman]

Thats a 1g cas not a 2g. So we have a 2g style head and thermostat here. That tells us nothing about the bottom end. Why are you guys speculating that it isnt? I see nothing in the above info to suggest what bottom end is in the car except the same info thd OP told us. Op thats a 2g intake manifold.

 

[19Eclipse90]

If I were you, I would verify what bottom end you have in your car. It looks by the pictures(Which are horrible by the way) that you have a 2g thermostat housing, 2g intake manifold which would make me believe you have a 2g head. Now you can have a 2g head on a 6 bolt block (I do) but modifications were required to do that. If it is a 1g head with a 2g water pipe and 2g thermostat housing, you need to switch the intake manifold as the runners do not match. I'm starting to think he BS'd his way to a sale by stating it had the 6 bolt swap. It does have the 1g CAS but maybe he converted to the 1g CAS to make it appear to be a 6 bolt and bolted that CAS to a 2g head.

The 2G thermostat housing will not bolt up to a 1G head so it is a 2G head. But as Paul stated, none of the above tells any of us anything about the bottom end.

Edit: Unless I'm looking at the pics in post #2 incorrectly, it appears you aren't running coolant to your turbo? That would help suggest that it is a 1G block but -- again -- that's about as far as you can go with it.

 

[Talyn]

Well, the owner I bought it from bought the car already modified, I knew the engine was rebuilt, and he had some pictures of the build from the previous owner, which showed the same engine paint with the engine being built, and everything else checked out and I was tight on time, so I took him at his word that it was a full 6 bolt.
It does appear to be 2g top end though as you guys suggest, certainly seemed to me like the water pipe, tstat, and EM are, but doesn't that IM look more like a 1g? The shape of the IM near throttle body, and those vertical lines look like a 1g to me, but I know the 1g doesn't have MDP sensor, or vac line right next to it?? If I had better pics, I probably wouldn't have to ask for help IDing this stuff, . I honestly can't remember if I got low and looked at the actual oil pan at any point, I didn't get to the car quite as early as I wanted to, and the notary was closing soon so I had to make a decision.
I do have a 6 bolt block lying around, so I guess if it is a 7 bolt and it croaks I can convert it myself...I guess I'll have to wait for the weekend to see what I have for a bottom end, and get a better look at the IM.

 

[pauleyman]

That is a 2g intake manifold. It already looks like you have a water pipe hooked up. The 2g pipe connects with an oring on both ends and the passenger side end goes directly into the bottom of the thermostat housing. You appear to already have a pipe in your pics. The 2g pipe part number is md306269 if you need it.

2g manifold looks like this which is exactly what you have.

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1g manifold looks like this.

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Here is a better shot of how the water pipe goes into the housing.

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[dustyboner]

Its a 2g intake mani.

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[Talyn]

That water pipe picture helps, so it just slots in there like it does to the water pump, with an o-ring? I see that the picture you show doesn't have a bung for turbo feed, something else I need to figure out, it seems the turbo on a 1g and 2g has different locations for the water line tap? I'm almost tempted to drive 2.5 hrs each way just to get up to the car and figure out what setup it has, this is driving me nuts, especially since I need to order some parts for it and want to do that BEFORE I go to mess with it.

So the blue line is a water line to the turbo correct? And yeah, that jerry rigged intake pipe has to go....

 

[dustyboner]

Look at the block where the oil dipstick tube goes. If it has ribs like this pic, its a 7bolt.

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If its smooth, its a 6bolt

 

[19Eclipse90]

So the blue line is a water line to the turbo correct?

Water line from the turbo (that's the return line). The turbo coolant feed for a 2G is shown in post #14, the hard line going into the block with the "S" bolt.

Look at the block where the oil dipstick tube goes. If it has ribs like this pic, its a 7bolt.

If its smooth, its a 6bolt

Half-correct. If it is ribbed like that, it is a 2G engine which inherently means it is a 7-bolt. However, 1G 7-bolt engines are smooth just like the 6-bolt so it is not a true 6- vs. 7-bolt indicator.

 

[Boomdeeze]

The 2G thermostat housing will not bolt up to a 1G head so it is a 2G head. But as Paul stated, none of the above tells any of us anything about the bottom end.

My mistake on the housing, it is the 1g housing that can bolt up to a 2g head but not vise versa.

The reason I was talking about the other parts is to try and verify what head he has. If the owner did in fact do a 6 bolt swap but modified a 2g head to fit the swap, wouldn't you think that would be something he would bring up? I know it doesn't determine what block is in there but may give him an idea of what he has. No one will know until the OP checks when he has the car.

 

[BlackDSMthingy]

The easiest way I know of to tell non-invasively if you have a 6 or 7 bolt that is definitive, is to look at the front flange of the oil pan behind the balancer. If it goes straight across under the front case, it's a 6-bolt. If it dips down in a curve under the front case then it's a 7-bolt. This isn't something you can fake. The pans and front cases (oil pump) can't be swapped. If you want to take the timing covers off and look at the tensioner, the 6-bolts have two mounting holes on the same side of the tensioner and the 7-bolts are opposite sides and diagonal from each other. Also, yes, if you take the oil pan off and see suitcase handles and a center main cap it's a 6-bolt, but if you have the one-piece girdle it's a 7-bolt. You can also look at the front of the engine block right under the head for a flat spot where they stamp the VIN# of the vehicle it came out of. Check the 10th digit and see what year it came out of. If it's a 90 or 91 you have a 6-bolt. If it's an early 92, you still may have a 6-bolt, but it's most likely a 7-bolt. If it's a late 92-94 you have a 1GB 7-bolt. If it's 95-99 you have a 2G 7-bolt. Another way to denote a 2G over a 1G is the front engine mount (front of engine bay below and to the passenger side of the turbo). If the block has a provision for the mount bracket, it's either a 6-bolt or a 1GB 7-bolt. The 2G's mount is on the tranny, so the blocks weren't drilled and tapped for the mount bracket. I found this out putting a 2G 7-bolt in a 92 GSX. Most peripheral items will swap one way or the other, so things like intake, heads, thermostat housings, CAS, etc. are question marks and someone may have either put them there because that's what they had or as an upgrade. I also hear tell that if you can find one, an early 90's Hyundai Elantra, and all VR4 Galant engines were 6-bolts. I believe the only major difference in the Elantra block is that they're not drilled and tapped for the knock sensor. I haven't had any personal experience with the blocks on these last two though, so reasearch it.

 

[Talyn]

Well I'm back at the car, and no more certain... My jack is broken, so I can't get under the car easily to see the oil pan flange, took some pictures, but I really can't tell from them, but looked flat I think, but then I felt with my hand and it felt like it dipped but I wasn't sure, so then I found the vin plate, and of course its a friggin 92, the one year it could be either. I guess I'll have to drive it up on something and try to squeeze under or try to get a peak at the tensioner, unless you guys can tell from these pics.

 

[BlackDSMthingy]

It doesn't really look like the pan dips down, so if not it's definitely a 6-bolt. I would say pull the pan to see if it has handles or a girdle on the mains. I know it's more work, but you need to know what it is before getting parts...

 

[Talyn]

Pull the pan!?!? I have enough leaks as it is!!! I decided that between the leaks and the turbo needing rebuilt, and the timing belt not looking anything like a 1500 mile belt, that I am just going to redo all that stuff, new TB+tensioner, new WP, rebuild turbo, new IM and EM gaskets, new HG, new o-rings for the water pipe, redo the rubber heater hose coming off of the water pipe. Maybe put a tubular o2 housing on it and MAYBE an aftermarket EM while I'm at it, trying not to throw more money at this thing than I have to atm(Trying not to mod it or replace things that aren't broken or questionable in other words), but I have it at my grandma's house right now and I'm not doing all that stuff here, the nearest parts store is a 30m drive each way...and there's always at least a few things you wind up needing...

I'm going to try to see if I can get a peek at the tensioner today. This would be easier, if I had actually seen or felt a known 7 bolt oil pan, but my last Talon had a 6 bolt in it. Too bad the VIN can't tell you which engine...I would like to think that if somebody went to the trouble to swap an engine that they did it with a 6 bolt, because it just wouldn't make sense to drop another 7 bolt in, but it would be far from the first questionable thing I found done to the car....It has a CF hood on it that seems to have been fit quite well, factory latch transferred over, sparco hood pins that line up perfectly, yet they couldn't be bothered to transfer the windshield washer nozzles, and the hood even has slots for them. If anybody has a picture from a similar angle of that flange on a 7 bolt, that might be enough to tell the difference...I guess another option is I could maybe pull the crank pulley, I can't remember how much work that is though and not sure if I need a puller, its been a while...

 

[19Eclipse90]

While I tend to agree that it appears to be a 6-bolt, I can't say for sure from the angle of those pictures.

I will say that pulling the pan at this point is a unnecessary. How else can we tell whether it is a 6- or 7-bolt? Bolt spacing between the two bottom bolts for the oil filter housing (bottom two bolt holes on the left side of the front case). The 7-bolt spacing is much closer together than the 6-bolt. Rough measurements can be found here: six bolt &7 bolt oil filter housing differance?

6-BOLT

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7-BOLT

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[Talyn]

The two holes in the bottom left corner of each picture? Any chance you have a measurement?

 

[19Eclipse90]

six bolt &7 bolt oil filter housing differance?

And just to be clear, the two holes at the left corner, along the bottom flange.

Edit: I kinda skipped over your last longer post, but we can tell with the block VIN. Post it up and we'll get the answer for you in a heartbeat.