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1G Short block advice?

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Sbgriffin

Proven Member
185
16
Jun 14, 2017
Lewiston, Idaho
What's your guys thoughts on this re-ring kit? I'm preparing to do a refresh on my 6 bolt, and I've had good luck with these brands on other engines I've overhauled. Let me also state that my engine is in descent working order. Just burns oil under boost, and leaks from several sources. Which kinda has me baffled, my compression numbers are 154-158 across. But I'm sure a quick hone job with new rings should remedy this. Better to be proactive, rather than waiting for catastrophic failure LOL. But if anyone knows of a better kit for the $$, I'm all ears? Also my goals are very conservative at 300fwhp, it torque steers enough at stock HP! Thanks...
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What's your guys thoughts on this re-ring kit? I'm preparing to do a refresh on my 6 bolt, and I've had good luck with these brands on other engines I've overhauled. Let me also state that my engine is in descent working order. Just burns oil under boost, and leaks from several sources. Which kinda has me baffled, my compression numbers are 154-158 across. But I'm sure a quick hone job with new rings should remedy this. Better to be proactive, rather than waiting for catastrophic failure LOL. But if anyone knows of a better kit for the $$, I'm all ears? Also my goals are very conservative at 300fwhp, it torque steers enough at stock HP! Thanks...
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Why don't you do a leak down test so you know for sure it's the Rings.
 
It's definitely a good idea to identify the problem before you throw money at a solution. Leaking from several sources is kind of a question mark; no one can help you figure out causality with that statement. Also, with decent compression and burning oil, that could be the rings, but it could also very well be valve stem seals and, since it's happening under boost, the thrust bearing and/or oil seals on the turbo could be on the way out. If you're burning oil and it's the rings, usually a dry compression test (no oil poured down the cylinders) will give you low values.
 
So let me try to answer all of you, and clarify myself. When I say leaking, I mean gaskets and seals. Which is my 2nd objective with this basic overhaul.
As far as my blow-by, oil consumption issue. I'm 98% sure it's the rings, and/or cylinder walls. I've done a poor man's leak down test, by just compressing each cylinder. Listing for where it loosing air. Also less than a year ago when I purchased the car I overhauled the head. It had suffered a timing belt failure, and bent a bunch of valves. That's how I picked it up so cheap. So I replaced all valves, steam seals, had it decked, basically a complete overhaul on the head. That being said, I knew I was taking a gamble with the bottom end. But really I'm not trying to get any advice on diagnosing. I was asking advice on part brands. I'm aware of NPR, but I've heard there not what they used to be.
It's definitely a good idea to identify the problem before you throw money at a solution. Leaking from several sources is kind of a question mark; no one can help you figure out causality with that statement. Also, with decent compression and burning oil, that could be the rings, but it could also very well be valve stem seals and, since it's happening under boost, the thrust bearing and/or oil seals on the turbo could be on the way out. If you're burning oil and it's the rings, usually a dry compression test (no oil poured down the cylinders) will give you low values.
Just FYI my goal is to restore my car to it's former glory, and a little beyond. I'm not happy unless it leak free, problem free, no more blow-by, etc. Your way better off rebuilding before catastrophic failure, it's way cheaper. So just keep in mind what my goal is here. This is one of my high school dream cars, I'm trying to make near perfection. One last thing, compression numbers were dry, 154-158. But I've seen this before, great compression til you cram a bunch of boost down it's throat. Usually a sign of rings loosing there tension. Thanks again.

You ever consider some npr pistons? If your pulling the pistons why dont you upgrade? It wont break the bank and they are very good cast pistons....if thats not an option for u, that kit will work, just file the rings accordingly
So you'd recommend this set? I was just thinking that other set would cover most of my bases. But I might get the NPR Pistons, ACL bearings, and fel-pro gaskets? Only other thing I'm going to replace is my stock lifters for a revised big bore set. Anybody know if the top-line lifters are worthy?
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So thanks to the few of you that had some positive input. My purpose of starting this thread was in hopes of getting some feedback/input on some products for my budget build. More importantly ones to avoid. As we all know, our cars can be a little fineky about aftermarket parts. So if anyone else has any constructive advice, please chime in? Like, I'd really like to know if anyone has any experience with the top-line lifters (HLA's)? Or anything else I should replace while I'm in there? Any opinions on fel-pro replacement head bolts on a budget?
 
I wouldn't replace head bolts w/ head bolts. One of the first motor upgrades that will allow you to make more power would be head studs and I wouldn't try to get around using them for "budget" purposes. I'm still using the same ARP studs that I've had through several motors. I haven't measured them so I don't know if they're "worn out" or not but they seem to work fine.
 
So thanks to the few of you that had some positive input. My purpose of starting this thread was in hopes of getting some feedback/input on some products for my budget build. More importantly ones to avoid. As we all know, our cars can be a little fineky about aftermarket parts. So if anyone else has any constructive advice, please chime in? Like, I'd really like to know if anyone has any experience with the top-line lifters (HLA's)? Or anything else I should replace while I'm in there? Any opinions on fel-pro replacement head bolts on a budget?
Just to be perfectly honest with you, I don't think there is such a thing as a "budget build" on a DSM, sure there are some cheaper parts here and there, but my rule of thumb is to save up for the proven part(e.g more than likely going to be pricey) over the aftermarket ching chung chang parts that you find on Ebay ect.. There are vendors on this site that still provide OUTSTANDING products for this platform, I highly suggest you use them and save up your money so you can buy the BEST parts for your build believe me, you will thank yourself later..
 
I wouldn't replace head bolts w/ head bolts. One of the first motor upgrades that will allow you to make more power would be head studs and I wouldn't try to get around using them for "budget" purposes. I'm still using the same ARP studs that I've had through several motors. I haven't measured them so I don't know if they're "worn out" or not but they seem to work fine.
Yeah I'm sure your right. But I had just read that 6 bolt engines have really stout head bolts (12mm I think), and can be reused. There not stretch to yield, where 7 bolt are@ 11mm shank. And really my goal isn't to make big HP, very conservative. I just want a fun, well sorted, 300whp. But It might be extra piece of mind going with ARP head studs. I'll see if I can't find a lightly used set.
One more question if you don't mind. Should I do a balance shaft delete? I've replaced both timing belts already, and really I don't want any extra vibration. But on they other hand, I don't want any future catastrophic failures. So at what power level does the balance shaft belt become a concern?
 
Balance shafts only fail when people neglect maintenance (from my understanding). I'd say that if you're adept with staying on top of maintenance intervals you shouldn't have any issues. If you do intend to do a balance shaft delete, having stock rubber motor mounts that are in good condition will dampen a lot of the vibration. It's not until you get into prothane mounts on balance shaft deleted engine that you start feeling a lot of vibration. I don't think there's a power level where balance shafts become unreliable and I think most people delete them for 2 reasons, to free up a miniscule amount of power from not spinning the weight and to get rid of the potential failure point that you mentioned. The power gain is not going to be much at all and if you're going for comfort and reliability I'd say leave them in there.

This brings me to a point I've made a ton of times. People modify a lot of things on these cars, some of them are good and some of them are not. The reason I think a lot of things can be skipped is because Mitsubishi had a TEAM of engineers that were highly educated working on making and designing these cars. One dude in his back yard comes up with a "great idea" and decides to do it but what he usually isn't considering is the fact that the industry professionals made the choices they did for a reason. There are several examples from blocking off the FIAV and complaining about the idle to "upgrading" the ignition system on a sub 600hp engine when the stock coils/ignition work fine up to that power level if they're in good repair. I'm not suggesting what you should or shouldn't do on your car but I would take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt, be thoughtful about what you're doing to your car and you should yield good reliable results. Don't be too big headed to think that your idea or someone else's idea is going to be better than a team of paid engineers. I'm, also, not suggesting that there are not things that can be improved, there definitely are.... I'm suggesting that you think carefully about the results of what you change and how it will effect the car after 30k miles of driving it.
 
Balance shafts only fail when people neglect maintenance (from my understanding). I'd say that if you're adept with staying on top of maintenance intervals you shouldn't have any issues. If you do intend to do a balance shaft delete, having stock rubber motor mounts that are in good condition will dampen a lot of the vibration. It's not until you get into prothane mounts on balance shaft deleted engine that you start feeling a lot of vibration. I don't think there's a power level where balance shafts become unreliable and I think most people delete them for 2 reasons, to free up a miniscule amount of power from not spinning the weight and to get rid of the potential failure point that you mentioned. The power gain is not going to be much at all and if you're going for comfort and reliability I'd say leave them in there.

This brings me to a point I've made a ton of times. People modify a lot of things on these cars, some of them are good and some of them are not. The reason I think a lot of things can be skipped is because Mitsubishi had a TEAM of engineers that were highly educated working on making and designing these cars. One dude in his back yard comes up with a "great idea" and decides to do it but what he usually isn't considering is the fact that the industry professionals made the choices they did for a reason. There are several examples from blocking off the FIAV and complaining about the idle to "upgrading" the ignition system on a sub 600hp engine when the stock coils/ignition work fine up to that power level if they're in good repair. I'm not suggesting what you should or shouldn't do on your car but I would take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt, be thoughtful about what you're doing to your car and you should yield good reliable results. Don't be too big headed to think that your idea or someone else's idea is going to be better than a team of paid engineers. I'm, also, not suggesting that there are not things that can be improved, there definitely are.... I'm suggesting that you think carefully about the results of what you change and how it will effect the car after 30k miles of driving it.
Thanks for your honest input, this is response I was hoping to get. I think to many people on here are quick to shoot down your goals. Or try to point out a fault in a person's plan, mostly to feed there own ego. When they don't realize, not all are trying for 600whp. I'm with you, if it's not broke don't fix it. If it was good at stock HP, why would I try to reinvent the wheel. Especially when I'm not turning up the power much. I'm just wanting to sort the few issues I'm not happy with. Blow by, oil leaks, lifter tick, etc.
Also I've given our vendors my business as much as I can afford, several $1000 in the last year. I never question the quality, and if I could afford strictly going to them on this, believe me I would. But the truth is there are brands out there that can be trusted for less. And I'd hardly call brands like, fel-pro, NPR, clevite, melling, Hastings China eBay garbage. I've had tons of success over the years with these brands, just never on a DSM. So that was my whole purpose of starting this thread, in hopes of getting a few honest opinions. And maybe a few that have used these brands. But instead some people at first wanted fault me for not pinpointing my issue. Even though I already had, and wasn't even asking advice on the diagnosis. Hopefully people realize, that makes a guy pretty apprehensive to ask for help. And I mean that with all due respect. But thanks to those that did respectfully try and constructively help.
The last thing I want to add is, if you guys wanna get your minds blown. Watch the sloppy mechanics on YouTube. He's an extreme sceptic just like me, and put things to the test. Things that are common practice, that everyone says you have to do. Granted it's mostly LS engines, but doesn't mean some doesn't apply to DSM's. Sorry for being so long winded, I just needed to say this. Thanks again...
 
Since we are all expressing opinions then I will give mine too. Also just letting you know that opinion is like as...holes. Everyone got them. I find that funny so don't find it offending.

Anyways the way I see it. I have been wrenching for a living for 11 years and most junks that I work on the customer just wants to go to work and back. It's like you, just want reliable 300whp with no noise and or leaks blah blah blah. You want to have the cake and eat it too. You come in here asking for advice but not happy with what you getting. You are being cheap and you think that's you can cheap your way out off everything. Like getting some cheap piston and installing it and if it works you will sell it as rebuilds engine or if it will not work you will part it out few months later. I have been here for 14 years. Seen it way too many times. I had diferant user name that's why. Everyone here is like top engine builder mean while they can't figure out how to fix basic things. My opinion is like this. Find the problem, fix the problem. Buy a reman or pay to a vendor for a good engine. You ever see turbo Tom video on Utube? I have been fawoling him for some time and I will tell that his engine has lived for a long time. Busher build. Says something about craftsmen ship if it is still kicking today. Most dsm for sale are fresh rebuilds. I am afraid to turn the key on because these cars will just blow up when you do. I am not saying you can't do it but if you have to come on internet to ask advice on eBay pistons you clearly have low amount of experience and are cheap.
I am sorry if I was rude. Not trying to get anyone mad here just it seems like an open discussion so I figure to put things in its places.
 
Since we are all expressing opinions then I will give mine too. Also just letting you know that opinion is like as...holes. Everyone got them. I find that funny so don't find it offending.

Anyways the way I see it. I have been wrenching for a living for 11 years and most junks that I work on the customer just wants to go to work and back. It's like you, just want reliable 300whp with no noise and or leaks blah blah blah. You want to have the cake and eat it too. You come in here asking for advice but not happy with what you getting. You are being cheap and you think that's you can cheap your way out off everything. Like getting some cheap piston and installing it and if it works you will sell it as rebuilds engine or if it will not work you will part it out few months later. I have been here for 14 years. Seen it way too many times. I had diferant user name that's why. Everyone here is like top engine builder mean while they can't figure out how to fix basic things. My opinion is like this. Find the problem, fix the problem. Buy a reman or pay to a vendor for a good engine. You ever see turbo Tom video on Utube? I have been fawoling him for some time and I will tell that his engine has lived for a long time. Busher build. Says something about craftsmen ship if it is still kicking today. Most dsm for sale are fresh rebuilds. I am afraid to turn the key on because these cars will just blow up when you do. I am not saying you can't do it but if you have to come on internet to ask advice on eBay pistons you clearly have low amount of experience and are cheap.
I am sorry if I was rude. Not trying to get anyone mad here just it seems like an open discussion so I figure to put things in its places.
I think you should read my posts from the start of this thread, I think I've been very clear what I was asking. And wasn't looking to be faulted, or shot down. Believe me, I watch all of Tom, Jafro's, sloppy mechanic videos, it's one of my go to sources that trust. I practice the process researching many different sources, then base my decision on all of the gathered info. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable here. I've had plenty of success and shortcomings in my mechanical ventures, and have been doing it for 20 years. But why I'm defending my self to you is beyond me. You'll never catch me making statements to discredit you or anyone. Because I treat people with the same respect I would hope for in return, that's just how I was raised. I'm hardly asking for my cake and eat it too with this. I believe NPR Nippon Pistons and rings are widely trusted, and is OEM supplier for many Japanese makes. Although I've been told there not as good as they used to be? I also know what challenges our cars come with, but I don't give up, nor do I hire out to people like yourself to do the work for me. The 3 things it takes to be successful at mechanicing are, patience, attention to detail, and lots of research (IMHO). I was hoping to use this forum as a resource for my research. So I really don't understand why some people respond that way. When I'm trying to help someone, with anything in life. I try to encourage, uplift, and hopefully inspire. Not fault, discourage, and discredit, or shoot down someone's humble goals. Just because they don't have huge budget.
I hope you hear what I'm saying and take it for what it is. I really don't want a pissing match. And I wish you and everyone else a blessed holiday season. Thanks again.
 
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Bro, this is the internet. If you go onto a forum and ask for advice, you're going to get all kinds of advice, some of which you may not like (which, by the way, doesn't necessarily make it bad advice). You shouldn't assume everyone posting their opinion is trying to take a dump on your project.
 
I agree, and I'm not assuming that everyone is. But there's a few that really are. To the level of discrediting my abilities, skills, and knowledge. I just don't think that's very becoming. I usually take with a grain of salt. But I felt the need to express how that might effect someone. But I'm over it now. And I do wish all a happy holiday season, I'm not just being passive aggressive.
 
This forum can be a bit rough with the know it all types. Of course I can sit here and tell you don't sweat it, but you already know that. The thing that bothers me is that the internet has spawned this breed of people that don't respect eachother anymore because there are no consequences to acting like a b hole to people online. They can take the same attitude after being a keyboard cowboy and be like, "it's the internet, it's just words, i don't care." There are people on the other sides of these keyboards, and guess what, they have something in common with you in owning DSM's. I know one or two other guys in my town that mess with DSM's and I'd be happy to know more. You don't treat your friends like crap, why treat people that are potential friends like crap? It's a poor attitude to have and not productive. I've worked in customer service for most of my career and I've honed the skills of helping people no matter what they're asking. I am an expert in my field and this attitude has improved my life. If I were to act like people were morons for choosing things I know are not correct then I would be out of a job and have a lot of people not happy with me.
 
This forum can be a bit rough with the know it all types. Of course I can sit here and tell you don't sweat it, but you already know that. The thing that bothers me is that the internet has spawned this breed of people that don't respect eachother anymore because there are no consequences to acting like a b hole to people online. They can take the same attitude after being a keyboard cowboy and be like, "it's the internet, it's just words, i don't care." There are people on the other sides of these keyboards, and guess what, they have something in common with you in owning DSM's. I know one or two other guys in my town that mess with DSM's and I'd be happy to know more. You don't treat your friends like crap, why treat people that are potential friends like crap? It's a poor attitude to have and not productive. I've worked in customer service for most of my career and I've honed the skills of helping people no matter what they're asking. I am an expert in my field and this attitude has improved my life. If I were to act like people were morons for choosing things I know are not correct then I would be out of a job and have a lot of people not happy with me.
Thanks for those words, I agree and respect that line of thinking. We're all representing the DSM community, I'd hate to see us being stereo typed as being a bunch of jack wagons LOL. And maybe I was being a little sensitive. I will be considering everything I've heard, searched, and already know to make my decision on parts. But just FYI, I'm leaning towards fel-pro gaskets, NPR Pistons and rings, ACL bearings, & top-line lifters. Giving my business to our vendors whenever possible.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94440#/topics/94440
For anyone interested, this is an old thread about Hasting rings, and how Buschurs supplies them, and there awesome. I've personally used some of these brands with lots of success on other engines. So what I can't except, is it would be any different on a 4g63. Fel-pro, clevite, and Hasting are some of the most respected brands in the business. It's not China garbage, actually made in the USA. This is a classic example of hear say. People spreading misinformation, that they have no real world experience with. Well I'm a skeptic that questions everything. I don't except it as fact unless I see proof. I know what has worked for me dozens of times with other projects. So what I'll do, I'll put this kit to the test. After I've put 5k on these parts I will report back. With a tech archive, good or bad. Although I've already tested fel-pro gaskets on 4g63, and have nothing bad to say.
 
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