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2G Setting crank to tdc with timing belt already removed?

Posted by eclipsed123, May 16, 2017
Newbie Forum - Beginner DSM modification questions and discussions. Common, repetitive, and general discussions will get dumped here from other tech forums. Unless you're a Probationary member you shouldn't post threads here.

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  1. eclipsed123

    eclipsed123 Proven Member Newnan, Georgia

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    Long story short my engine mount broke loose from the block. I had to remove the mounting bracket attacked to the block to drill and tap out the holes. My problem is I had to pull the bottom portion of the timing belt off to remove the bracket but I didn't rotate the crank to top dead center before I did this. I didn't touch the top of the timing belt around the cam gears and I went ahead and zip tied the belt in place on the cam gears. This is the first time I've messed around with the timing belt hence the newb move. I figured while I had everything off I would go ahead and replace all the timing belt components I already ordered a kit from extremepsi. My question is how would I go about rotating the crank to tdc without the risk of bending valves since the timing belt has been removed from the crankshaft.
     
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  2. Jsrunnlus

    Jsrunnlus Proven Member Piedmont, South_Carolina

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    Someone with more experience may chime in with a better suggestion, but I would simply take the valve cover off and remove the bolts holding the cams. Once released the camshafts will allow the valves to fully seat and you can rotate the crankshaft without interference.

    Set the engine to TDC for #1. Camshafts have a dowel pin that goes at 12 o'clock. Cam gear then has the triangles that align at points. Don't forget the balance shaft (down by crank) aligning in there as well.
     
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    gofer, 19Eclipse90 and SOADweskey like this.
  3. jstory352

    jstory352 Probationary Member Dalzell, South_Carolina

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    That's about the safest way imo. Anytime you do anything with the timing belt it's a good idea to set the engine to tdc. If you have anymore questions about the process just ask, there are plenty of us willing to help.
     
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  4. jakk220

    jakk220 Proven Member Stow, Ohio

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    That is one way of doing it. Or you could just take the belt off of the cams and make sure they are closed. If anything makes contact just dont force it.
     
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  5. doubleclutch

    doubleclutch Supporting Member Canton, Michigan

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    Simply rotate the cams till they are at the right spot to reset the timing. You arent going to bend the valves unless you force it to go where it doesn't want to. most likely you won't have an issue. Once that is done set the crank to the proper timing marks.
     
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  6. Vor V Zakone

    Vor V Zakone Probationary Member Sumpter, Michigan

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    You could also pull the lifters and then set it to tdc.
     
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  7. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman oklahoma city, Oklahoma

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    You guys are way over thinking this. The motor is meant to be at top dead center when the cams are dowel up. So, if you set the cams with dowel up, all you have to do is rotate the crank until it lines up. The only gotcha is you know that with each turn of the crank two Pistons are up two Pistons are down. That being said don't turn the crank in the direction that takes you past 180degrees total. Turn the crank whatever Direction takes the least amount a revolution to get to top dead center. Yes that means you turn it counterclockwise if necessary. Anytime the crank is away from the TDC Mark none of the Pistons are approaching any valves for 180 degrees. If you rotate the crank a full 360 degrees then the two Pistons that aren't meant to be at top dead center we'll go past the valves and I would guess there is a chance of bending valves on those two cylinders. As I said if you don't rotate all the way around or in any case more than 180 degrees to get to top dead center then there is no chance for a piston to get into a position to bend valves.

    By the way if you want to hold cams in their up position either install the special tool or install a belt across the top of them and clip it to the gears. At that point you can move the crank into the position necessary following the instructions I just gave
     
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  8. AllWheelTerrorTsi

    AllWheelTerrorTsi Proven Member billings, Montana

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    What he said LOL and don't forget to make sure the oil pump is timed correctly. There is a plug at the back of the block that you should be able to put a screwdriver in all the way, if you cant rotate oil pump sprocket again. Or you can hold the oil pump sprocket with timing mark at 12 oclock and then let go and it should fall counterclockwise if its aligned correctly.
     
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  9. eclipsed123

    eclipsed123 Proven Member Newnan, Georgia

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    Okay guys thanks for the help I think I have everything lined up I took a few pics just for clarification. The camshafts and oil pump sprocket were pretty much already lined up the only thing I had to do was turn the crankshaft 1/4 counter clockwise and it lined up as well. Everything look alright?
     

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  10. jimsgsx

    jimsgsx Proven Member toppenish, Washington

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    Good lord i would clean er up a bit and replace some of those timing components, lookin a lil rusty. Not bein negative, just what i would do. Might as well while you in there right!
     
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  11. AllWheelTerrorTsi

    AllWheelTerrorTsi Proven Member billings, Montana

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    Picture is blurry but it looks like a puddle of oil sitting under the crank sprocket. Brake clean where you can. I'm assuming you have more then one oil seal leaking.
     
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  12. eclipsed123

    eclipsed123 Proven Member Newnan, Georgia

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    Here is a better pic of the crankshaft and oil sprocket I will spray everything down with contact cleaner as I'm going along I haven't had the car too long I bought it for a daily driver that's why I'm trying to get the timing belt changed since u have no idea if it's ever been done.
     

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  13. AllWheelTerrorTsi

    AllWheelTerrorTsi Proven Member billings, Montana

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    That looks better. I learned the hard way when I first got my tsi 3 years ago. I didn't check the belt and not even 3 weeks into owning it I started it up and put it in first and as soon as I gave it gas I lost 6 teeth on my timing belt and lost 2-3 teeth at random spots around the belt because it was so oil soaked. Oil pump was never replaced, main seal was bad, it was a mess.
     
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  14. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman oklahoma city, Oklahoma

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    Now is the time to replace seals if it needs it. Also you must get the oil pump mark correct. Mark lined up is not enough. It was explained above.

    Oil pump sprocket fall trick doesn't work if seals are new. Fyi for those reading.
     
    #14
  15. doubleclutch

    doubleclutch Supporting Member Canton, Michigan

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    +1 for oil soaked belt failure. Make sure that you aren't leaking on that side of the engine.
     
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  16. juiced_gst

    juiced_gst Probationary Member glenwood springs, Colorado

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    When your ready to put the timing belt on just make sure your camshaft timing marks are lined up, take off all four spark plugs so you wont fight compression. Put a screwdriver in cyl #1 so you have an idea where the piston is, move the crank till the top of the screw driver is tdc and double check it with your crank timing mark. Put the belt on make sure all your timing marks are correct, cam, crank, balance shaft . Once you have the belt on, turn the crank two full rotations and make sure the timing marks line up where they need too. It shouldn't take much force to turn it if it does recheck it.
     
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  17. AllWheelTerrorTsi

    AllWheelTerrorTsi Proven Member billings, Montana

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    Youll need the special tool for the tensionor pulley or ive heard of 90 degree needle noses working and if you happen to have the stock battery tray hold down, you can use that rod and threads once or twice for the tensionor arm.
     
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  18. juiced_gst

    juiced_gst Probationary Member glenwood springs, Colorado

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    The timing belt tensioner tool should be about $20-$40, aside from the needle nose you could also use snap ring pliers.
     
    #18

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