2G Roll cage design plus parts help/input

[EC17PSE]

Here I would like to discuss cages and saftey on brackets and clamps for cages etc etc.

My main goal is to make it as stiff and safe as possible but it will be bolt in (I know its not the best but its only due to not being fully ready for a weld in cage yet) plus I do like to take the family out to cars shows and events so the rear seats are sometimes used. ( I can re build the cage again once its all done and no rear seats will be installed)
The main hoop and to the rear and front will most likely stay in 99% of the time as that will be going through the dash and to the trunk area so wont be an issue and rear seats can still be used if i make it miss them just. the X brace in the middle and door bars will all be removable for when they are in the car.

The idea is to use these 2 mounts on the main hoop for the front roof loop and to the rear of the trunk

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This will make it easier to install as it will all be smaller and can be assembled by 1 person rather then 2 aswell. these are stronger then the normal pins and slip over joints used by many in the bolt in cages.

The door bars and X bar will be removed and installed more often then anything else so i want some nice strong clamps and I have found these 2 both have said to work well

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This last connection with 6 bolts I would actually weld the rear section to the cage so only 1 part of it was removable.
The others I have used before from OMP and they are fine but its just 1 bolt and 6 12.9 bolts are safer then 1 12.9 plus their clamp load is rated to 8,600 lbs!!! thats a good amount.


Onto the design, I have a rough idea on how I would like it to look once done and here are a few I have found that are similar to my thoughts

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I like the rear curved design and think this is how I want it to look in the rear, I will keep my rear strut brace until I can find a easy bolt on/off way for the bar to mount to the cage directly.
The center main hoop lower/floor mounting locations will be as showed.

The last picture of Andrew Brilliants race car which if you look at the back of the main hoop a tube goes straight down to the rear strut towers which I think is nice and also considering this if i can figure out the rear cross section and if im just adding more or making is more complicated or not!



So far this is all I have and I have the metal all ready and just didnt know what people thoughts were on the clamps I was wanting to use and if people had a different more practical design for keeping the rear seats for now.

Thanks for reading

Bobby

 

[MIdsm]

Is this cage for safety or for looks? Your goals are at odds with the main reason to install a cage. Cages are generally incompatible with passengers, especially back seat passengers. What would happen if you got in an accident? Your rear seat passengers would smack the tubes. Might as well grab a cricket bat and smack them in the head a time or two. If you like your passengers don't put them in a vehicle with a roll cage.

Now that we have established that you shouldn't have passengers (especially rear seat passengers) in your caged car, the question is if the cage is for looks or for safety?

If it's for safety, look into FIA info or talk to a scrutineer.

If it's for looks I advise against it. If you still insist look into Cusco garbage.

The first pic of of the cage with curved tubes is what not to do.. In my opinion it's garbage. Curved tubes are weaker and will collapse easier. Think straight tubes and triangulation. Think nodes. If multiple tubes come together they should come to a single point. No tube should end in the middle of another tube without having a tube on the opposite side.

Good luck.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Are the door bars in andrew's car NHRA legal? I know he doesnt drag race but I'd rather have my door bars like that then the 30* ones. And are steel boxes legal?

 

[EC17PSE]

Is this cage for safety or for looks? Your goals are at odds with the main reason to install a cage. Cages are generally incompatible with passengers, especially back seat passengers. What would happen if you got in an accident? Your rear seat passengers would smack the tubes. Might as well grab a cricket bat and smack them in the head a time or two. If you like your passengers don't put them in a vehicle with a roll cage.

Now that we have established that you shouldn't have passengers (especially rear seat passengers) in your caged car, the question is if the cage is for looks or for safety?

If it's for safety, look into FIA info or talk to a scrutineer.

If it's for looks I advise against it. If you still insist look into Cusco garbage.

The first pic of of the cage with curved tubes is what not to do.. In my opinion it's garbage. Curved tubes are weaker and will collapse easier. Think straight tubes and triangulation. Think nodes. If multiple tubes come together they should come to a single point. No tube should end in the middle of another tube without having a tube on the opposite side.

Good luck.

I get your point and padding will be used to aid this and honestly its only a few times i have rear seats in for events so its not alot.

I have a blue book which is what MSA requires here in the UK and i will follow that as best as i can.
I also dont get your curved comment? All cages are curved or bent so i am only assuming you mean curved on a horizontal axis and not straight down connection points! Correct me if i am wrong. I am just trying to get an OK way to keep the rear seats for now and still retain strength when i dont need the seats. I know its not propper and i do hate to do it this way

 

[EC17PSE]

Are the door bars in andrew's car NHRA legal? I know he doesnt drag race but I'd rather have my door bars like that then the 30* ones. And are steel boxes legal?

Andrew is going to be on a international regulation basis which means alot can be different! Same for me if i want to anywhere else i wohld have wider rules to go by, the door bars in andrews i have seen alot but i would still perfer a bar atleast chest height as thats a big gap for cars to go through

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Andrew is going to be on a international regulation basis which means alot can be different! Same for me if i want to anywhere else i wohld have wider rules to go by, the door bars in andrews i have seen alot but i would still perfer a bar atleast chest height as thats a big gap for cars to go through

For drag race cars, your more worried about the wall then Other cars crashing into you.....usually. But i understand what your saying for a street car. I'll be welding in my cage within the next year I'd like to get all the info possible like you. However i only need to follow nhra rules.

 

[EC17PSE]

It wont be drag and its road racing so the cage is going to be different then drag rules plus my rules in the UK are going to differ slightly

 

[pksystems]

That bar over the door in the last pic looks too low for a street car. Even if it needs to be curved I would tuck it into the roof more. That would probably require cutting out the roof skin to finish the top welding tho. I dunno the current rules, but I did one bar from the rocker along the A-pillar to the main hoop on my non-dsm car, and I had it touching the roof in points.

 

[EC17PSE]

That bar over the door in the last pic looks too low for a street car. Even if it needs to be curved I would tuck it into the roof more. That would probably require cutting out the roof skin to finish the top welding tho. I dunno the current rules, but I did one bar from the rocker along the A-pillar to the main hoop on my non-dsm car, and I had it touching the roof in points.

That last pic is no street car thats andrews 100% race car and it started off as a convertible! Thats why its most likely that low because he had a custom roof made up for it. Its the cream of the crop in terms of design and aero plus its what alot of us inspire to when it comes to builds! I know my build is inspired by his and time attack cars.

I will try to get it as high up as i can, i want to retain my head liner for now so i will make it touch that and i am going to keep as many triangle connections as possible so retain stength, it cannot be worse then some.of the bolt in options i have had to install in the past, some are way worse then my ideas

 

[BFreeman]

The last pic looked great. But make sure everything is NHRA ok before you spend all the time and money on building a cage.

 

[EC17PSE]

Im in the UK so i dont need to be NHRA but i will be as close to MSA (our type like NHRA rules) we got NSRA but thats for street rods and i will even send it to get weld tested after to get the pass stamp, i weld as a job and have built a few cages but most are not from scratch like this will be but i nky think the design will be the down side and not the welds,

 

[EC17PSE]

But on to the clamps! Does any one think i will have an.issue with either of them clamps for the X bar and door bars? I am keaning towards the 6 bolt clamps but they are more expensive and will clamo better but if anyone has good insight on best clamps to use then please chime in

 

[antilag_200]

Here is the cage that we did in my colt. There might be somethings that could be of interest to you .
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/attempting-a-roll-cage-build-in-awd-colt.493373/

I would recommend against the bolted set ups, but if you were going to remove the side bars, then I would recommend getting swing outs .

 

[turbosax2]

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This is Beau's car, not Andrew's.

 

[EC17PSE]

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This is Beau's car, not Andrew's.

How can i be stupid i know this as his car in my home screen haha i wont lie when i wrote this i did have a few drinks my bad on this, still cannot believe i got the name wrong

 

[EC17PSE]

Here is the cage that we did in my colt. There might be somethings that could be of interest to you .
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/attempting-a-roll-cage-build-in-awd-colt.493373/

I would recommend against the bolted set ups, but if you were going to remove the side bars, then I would recommend getting swing outs .

Yeah i have read through yours, the front down bars are not safe on yours though, they are no longer allowed 2 bends anymore! May be different in the US but the UK now requires 1 bend only at that location.

It not just the door bars that need to be removed but the X brace on the central section aswell that will sometimes need to be removed the rest can be bolted in and stay there until im ready to take everything...... out and weld a new one from scratch and all joint to be welded.

I need to spend some more hours sitting in the car to have a better think abiot it i reckon

 

[maximum9898]

I just finished up my roll cage a couple months ago, i'm very happy with how it came out and it is all NHRA legal as of the new rules. And if you feel to close to the bars you can do what I did and make some custom seat mounts. My head was touching the bar with factory mounts I'm 6'4" also so that didn't help. As soon as I took them tall mounts out I gained over three inches. But most of the pictures are on the last two pages of my build thread if you wanna get some ideas!! http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/97-gsx-600hp-street-drag-restoration.469244/

 

[EC17PSE]

I just finished up my roll cage a couple months ago, i'm very happy with how it came out and it is all NHRA legal as of the new rules. And if you feel to close to the bars you can do what I did and make some custom seat mounts. My head was touching the bar with factory mounts I'm 6'4" also so that didn't help. As soon as I took them tall mounts out I gained over three inches. But most of the pictures are on the last two pages of my build thread if you wanna get some ideas!! http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/97-gsx-600hp-street-drag-restoration.469244/

Man your cage looks good. You gave me an idea! Weld the rear section from the towers like you have then i can clamp to that for now until i can not worry about rear rear room.

Cheers dude

Great build by the way, shocked i have never come across this build, i will take time to read it all over the week

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I like that X brace between the frame rails where the spare tire used to be. I already have that cut out good idea to add rigidity. But is it really needed if the strut towers are already braced? I'd think you want the minimum amount of bars possible for weight savings

 

[maximum9898]

I think so, there is nothing connecting the rear two frame rails on the bottom rear. And the upper strut tower brace is there to be and upper strut tower brace. There is really nothing that connects the bottom of the unibody in the back. And I have all the spot welded sheet metal cut out, so I figured I could use some more rigidity. It only put on a little over 8lbs, my motor is built to go 45psi+ so I'm not worried about that Ill just turn the boost up

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I think so, there is nothing connecting the rear two frame rails on the bottom rear. And the upper strut tower brace is there to be and upper strut tower brace. There is really nothing that connects the bottom of the unibody in the back. And I have all the spot welded sheet metal cut out, so I figured I could use some more rigidity. It only put on a little over 8lbs, my motor is built to go 45psi+ so I'm not worried about that Ill just turn the boost up

I think I'm going to do that myself. Did you use all the realestate to the front subframe and as far back as possible? This might be something good to add a chute mount to.

 

[karlcho88]

Not quite a 2g (7g Galant), but the design is usable as chassis is very similar, its a bolt in and complies to aus CAMS specs.

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and have the rear legs to the wheels tubs will work just fine.

 

[EC17PSE]

Not quite a 2g (7g Galant), but the design is usable as chassis is very similar, its a bolt in and complies to aus CAMS specs.

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and have the rear legs to the wheels tubs will work just fine.

This does look good. Ive pretty much made my mind up on how i am going to do this now, but thanks for the input. My connection poinylts are going to be at the rear towers so they wont be in the way if they are disconnected.

 

[karlcho88]

My original plan was to go to the towers. My engineer used the wheel wells instead as it required shorter tubing for less weight and improved rear leg angle for better rollover protection. Mine is bolt in with flanges welded to the car.