ECMlink Resolved - So many changes at once, what brought the issues?

Posted by rabenne, Feb 16, 2017

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  1. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
    I blocked the 2" pipe coupler at the turbo outlet and put pressure into the cyclone manifold via the center vac port. I am able to hold 30 psi without hearing any external leaks. I have sprayed down the entire intake system with soapy water, and corrected a minor leak at the BISS o-ring. I can not get any response using soap and water at 30 psi or 10 psi or 1 psi. I figured a fast leak might be displacing the water before a bubble can form, so I checked at multiple pressures. I also raised the car onto jackstands and sprayed the underside of the manifold.

    I DO have my valve cover breather fitting ran to a vented catch can. I have been running this way for years and never had any major issues.

    2). Verified mechanical timing?
    Not yet, but not changes were made on previously working belt setup. Belt has tension and top marks are aligned, I have not pulled the bottom cover to verify the crank sprocket position, but this seems unlikely to be the problem. I am open to information suggesting otherwise.

    3). Verified base timing?
    5 deg btdc with craftsman electronic ignition timing advance gun.

    4). Ignition system
    Stock coils
    BWD wires, 1 year old, never had any issues before
    Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: ngk bpr7es

    5). Motor health (Compression Test)
    Cylinder 1:
    Cylinder 2:
    Cylinder 3:
    Cylinder 4:


    6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
    Idle Switch: Simulated by Ecmlink from tps
    Throttle Cable: good tension, no binding or damage
    TPS: not yet adjusted, reading 0% at 0 and 92% at WOT
    BISS:

    Stuck here, cant set base idle properly. Idle rolls too much.

    7). Compression ratio
    9:1


    8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
    none

    9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
    none

    10). Electrical system
    Car off (not running):12.33V
    Car running:13.7V (voltmeter not ecmlink value)

    11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
    Base Fuel Pressure: 43.5 psi
    Injector Size (cc/min): FIC 1000cc HIGH Z

    12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
    Sensor Brand: Zeitronix ZT2
    Calibration Date: I believe this unit is self calibrating at powerup, but I dont have a gauge if that is what is meant for this section.

    13). Type of fuel
    Type: 93 octane gasoline
    Percent of Ethanol: i think 10%?

    14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?

    I dont think I am at this point yet, but I have watched them, and I have read a bit about V3.




    O
    k guys, So I made some changes and now the car is acting really strange. I am unsure where to begin. I have tested for intake leaks several times, and I cant get a response from soapy water or hear external air leaks.

    I changed:
    V3 upgrade
    FIC 1000 cc injectors
    cyclone manifold (new inner gaskets, shaft seal
    1g rebuilt tb with used ISC


    I have never ran my car with an ISC and my lack of major boost leaks makes me question the used ISC I put on. In the attached log you can see a major change in the way the car was running when I checked the "ground diag and timing" boxes in the software.

    I still dont feel confident that its not a hidden intake leak, so I installed my GM map on the MDP line to log intake pressure. What do you guys suggest? I can tell you that unplugging the ISC does not change the rolling rpm. I should also note I am not currently running coolant hoses to the FIAV.


    Any suggestions to get moving in the right direction is greatly appreciated.
     

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    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

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  2. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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  3. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    In this log I see the tps change and ISC position changes as well. I am not sure if anything in this log might be more helpful for those reasons. Having said that I am going out to garage to adjust the tps position correctly right now. I will also test the isc coils and pull out the ecu to look for burnt drivers. Would be bummer to find out this "good" used ISC is shorted. SHAME ON ME for not testing it before putting it on.

    I really appreciate you wading through the BS to help me get moving on the right track.
     

    Attached Files:

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    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

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  4. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Ok I adjusted the TPS to .63 v closed and 5.0V open. it reads 0 and 100% when opening and closing. Thanks for that site. So simple, f me for not doing it before posting.


    I also pulled the ISC out and turned the key on, the page you linked says it should fully extend, but it appears that mine is actually retracting. I shot video since I couldnt see it and turn the key by myself. You can hear whats going on as the isc moves. You be the judge, does this seem right? I was told this ISC worked on this tb before, and its not a 90 throttle body, but could they have been mistaken and it is actually a 90 ISC?


    I have also tested the coils. 1-2, 29.4 ohms, 2-3, 29.4 ohms, 4-5, 29.2 ohms, 5-6. 29.2 ohms. I believe the coils are good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  5. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Sorry vid too large for upload... youtbe link


     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  6. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    I suppose that's possible. From what I remember the 90 ISC has a metal case and a pigtail coming off of it, vs the plug being molded into the body itself on the 91+. Probably want to double check that.
    I'm no ISC expert, but what it does in the video doesn't look like what mine does. Mine extends out and then slightly bounces back a little, yours definitely looks to be retracting.
     
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  7. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Ok well it def doesn't have an integrated pigtail. So I suppose that rules out the 90 isc.

    I will pull the ecu to check the drivers. Luckily I still have the panels off from putting the v3 chip in.

    I have not run the engine since correcting the TPS but I can if new intel is needed.
     
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  8. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Okay well im heading out to verify the drivers in the ecu, but I came across this video which gives me a hint.


    I also shot another video of mine,

    .

    Initially mine starts to move the wrong direction, then makes that same clicking sound as the above video.
     
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  9. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Drivers dont look burnt out or damaged. I suppose I have a coil control wiring problem?
     

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  10. miliman13

    miliman13 Proven Member

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    I wouldn't get to hung up on the ISC not reading the desired value on link.
    Mine is always at 0 and i purr like a kitty.

    I spent alot of time trying to achived the "expected" results, with no luck.
    I ended up simply playing with my VE table, adjusting the bolt which limits the closing of the butterfly
    ( at the TB ).

    Mine :
     
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  11. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Interesting. Yours does about the same thing that mine is doing. I still have the rolling idle though... So this seems like something worth chasing down.
     
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  12. livedsm4g63

    livedsm4g63 Proven Member

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    Time to go speed density :)
    Boost leaks will be a thing of the past haha. But to that point, your turbo would be less efficient.

    My old 1g had a problem like this. The ISC would move but the car still ran like crap. (Idle surge) I took out the ECU and nothing jumped out on me as being leaky or fried. Figured it would still be worth while to have ECMlink guys redo the caps. Later when they received the ecu I got an email saying they found a bad trace on the ISC circuit. Needless to say, I got it back and the car was good as new. Just my experience.
     
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  13. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    Your ISC constantly reads zero because it's not working correctly. A zero position indicates the ECU is trying to completely close the ISC. Without a working ISC the ECU only has timing control over idle speed. Just because your car works okay without an ISC doesn't mean other people should just ignore theirs not working.
     
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  14. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Well maybe its worth shipping out to them. They have previously reworked this ECU. I was thinking about how to verify the wiring is in tact and was curious if I could install injector noid lights into the coil wire pairs and watch for flashes? I think the stepper pulses would be too fast to detect with a multimeter.

    If it normally just extends fully then partial retraction, that means all the coils fire off when you turn the key on. I should be able to verify the signal at the ISC connector either with noid lights or possibly a lab scope. Has anyone seen information regarding do this?
     
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  15. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    The only test method I'm familiar with for the ISC is testing the resistance of the coils, should be something around 39 ohms.
     
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  16. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    The coils on the older metal housing unit is a bit lower, and mine tests in spec. I know how stepper motors work from working with robotics. I am pretty sure that I can setup a scope to sense the pulses at the ISC connector. This would tell me the ECU driver is sending the signal and the wiring leading to the ISC is in tact. If I dont get a signal from any of the coil pairs I should then know that there is a problem with either the drivers or wires.

    I would just slap the old TB back on but I bought one to rebuild purely to add ISC back onto my car. I am going to diagnose it properly before I go pulling it all back apart.
     
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  17. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    I still have the ecu that came in the car, is it worth dropping it in there and repeating the key on test?
     
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  18. miliman13

    miliman13 Proven Member

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    Whats with the lecture?
    Its implied that it works for me. Im confident the message got through.
    Maybe read my responce again , and not make assumptions.

    And mine is working fine since thats the new one fresh from the pack i installed.

    Op since it must be stated to appease those who need it.

    No two cars are the same we both know what works for me, may not work for you..... cant believe i have to state it.
     
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  19. livedsm4g63

    livedsm4g63 Proven Member

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    I wouldnt see why not. Takes a few mins to swap out. Just ensure you are running stock injectors and stock maf :)
     
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  20. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    I figured I would just cycle the key on, I wouldnt expect any problems from doing that. I wont start it with this ecu but, this would tell me if both ecu drivers are providing the same signals. If it acts properly with the other ecu, I would know the problem is likely in my v3 chipped ecu. If it does the exact same thing I would start to doubt the ecu and be more focused on the wiring from the ecu to the ISC plug.

    Also I am still running stock 2g maf. I have gm 3 bar for logging only right now. IAT in TB elbow is just acting as a plug for now, not wired (to keep stock maf).
     
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  21. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    No your ISC is not working fine if it's constantly at zero. Just because your car idles doesn't mean it's working. Doesn't matter if it's new, if it's adjusted improperly. Wasn't trying to lecture you, but these are not "expected" values. They are factory defined values. All I meant was telling someone they shouldn't worry about getting a value in spec because your car runs that way is not sound advice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  22. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    I cant think of any problems with trying this, but I haven't thought it through entirely. My sensors are on inputs, the only output I utilize is the egr, but I use the stock solenoid to control the cyclone vac actuator. So anything the ecu powers is either factory, or compatible with factory wiring, as in the case of GM Map on MDP wiring. Can anyone think of problems I might run into powering up this factory ecu in my car? (again, not running, just key on to test ISC actuation?)
     
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  23. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    This would be an easy way just to rule out out. I can't think of any problem you'd have doing so.
     
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  24. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Ok so it behaves the same exact way. Next ill check it manually with a battery. If it checks out I have some wiring to dig into.


     
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  25. livedsm4g63

    livedsm4g63 Proven Member

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    Plot twist, both ecu's are bad LOL Im just messing around.
    Im unable to look in your log as I do not have link on my work computer. Have you logged open/closed loop? I know sometimes when you simulate certain sensors, sometimes it wont allow the car to go into closed loop for whatever reason. Just a thought.
     
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