2G Replacing Clutch - What other things should I do?

[doubleclutch]

Hey guys,
My hard work has paid off and I am now making more power then my clutch can handle (believe it is stock). I was in the middle of a pull and RPMs go ^ and no acceleration. I plan on deleting the accumulator and removing the check valve while I am in there so the pedal stops hitting me in the bottom of the foot when it is cold. Aside from that, what else is a good idea to remove/replace/upgrade? Any comments on my component selection? Any pitfalls to look our for? I heard that the flywheel must be stepped down 0.612" +/- 0.002" and should be ground instead of turned.

HP goal is 300 WHP/400 Crank HP.

ACT 2600
Resurfaced Lightened Flywheel (was replaced 20K ago by PO)
Extreme PSI SS complete line
OEM Throw Out Bearing
Bearing Retainer Clip
Competition 4140 Fork and Ball
ARP Flywheel Bolts
OEM Pressure Plate Bolts
Driver Side Axle Seal
Passenger Side Axle Seal
Transmission Output Seal
T-Case Input Seal
T-Case Output Seal
Redline MT-90 for Tranny
Redline 75W-90 for T-Case

 

[SOADweskey]

Your list looks good, I would use Redline Heavy Weight Shockproof for the transfer case though. And at your power MT-90 is probably fine for the transmission but you would get more gear protection from 75W-90 in the transmission.

Also an OEM fork and ball will work just fine with a 2600.

And what disk are you planning to run with the 2600 pressure plate? I would say that the street disk should be fine for the power you stated but if you intend to launch the car and beat on it then a sprung six puck may be a better choice to dissipate heat quicker.

 

[red_devil]

I'd go ahead and replace the rear main seal if it's old. Check to see if your oil pan isn't leaking since it will be easier to fix with everything removed. The stronger fork and arp flywheel bolts aren't necessary as oem will do but that's up to you.

 

[91talonts1]

Just a suggestion from my personal bad experiences with ACT discs. Avoid them, I've cracked 3 of the sprung ones. I like my southbend much better, and they offer multiple friction surface combos to meet multiple needs.

 

[boostdawd]

Oem flywheel bolts and fork/pivot ball will work fine for your goals. Depending on the age of your components and clutch selection u may need to shim the pivot ball.

Blue and medium loctite for the bolts. Other than that your pretty much set. Over the years I found using an engine hoist to position the transmission helps tremendously instead of fooling around with a jack.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

If your due for timing service as well, pull the engine and trans together. It sound like a lot of work, but will save you a ton of hassle having complete access to the timing side and being able to mate the engine and trans together outside of the car. For those that do not know, it is actually slightly cheaper to get the Comp clutch fork and ball than buying the OEM items separately. +1 on the rear main seal. Before placing your order, verify your master and slave cylinders are in good condition.

 

[doubleclutch]

Your list looks good, I would use Redline Heavy Weight Shockproof for the transfer case though. And at your power MT-90 is probably fine for the transmission but you would get more gear protection from 75W-90 in the transmission.

Also an OEM fork and ball will work just fine with a 2600.

And what disk are you planning to run with the 2600 pressure plate? I would say that the street disk should be fine for the power you stated but if you intend to launch the car and beat on it then a sprung six puck may be a better choice to dissipate heat quicker.

I have MT-90 in the trans right now and it seems to do great. The 75w90 doesn't appear to have the friction modifiers needed for the syncros. Shockproof might not be a bad idea.

I was planning on running a street disc, I don't drag pretty much ever and I am pretty gentle on the car.

I'd go ahead and replace the rear main seal if it's old. Check to see if your oil pan isn't leaking since it will be easier to fix with everything removed. The stronger fork and arp flywheel bolts aren't necessary as oem will do but that's up to you.

Good idea. Oil pan definitely leaks.
I think I will just get a new pivot ball to avoid screwing around with shims. it is only 11$. The fork i thought was necessary for the heavier clutch but it looks like it might be more of a 1g problem.

If your due for timing service as well, pull the engine and trans together. It sound like a lot of work, but will save you a ton of hassle having complete access to the timing side and being able to mate the engine and trans together outside of the car. For those that do not know, it is actually slightly cheaper to get the Comp clutch fork and ball than buying the OEM items separately. +1 on the rear main seal. Before placing your order, verify your master and slave cylinders are in good condition.

Timing belt is good. Just went through that process. Master cylinder is (2) years old. I will replace the slave if it gives me issues. easy enough to get to.

Just a suggestion from my personal bad experiences with ACT discs. Avoid them, I've cracked 3 of the sprung ones. I like my southbend much better, and they offer multiple friction surface combos to meet multiple needs.

They aren't that much more expensive, looks like somehow the 2200# PP is strong enough where the ACT i need a 2600#? Does that make any sense? It surely would be better to drive. Also, what friction material do you recommend? OFE sounds enticing for what I do.

How did you crack your discs? A lot of people swear by ACT but also a lot of people love southbend.

 

[SOADweskey]

For the gear oil. I follow the recommendation of Jon at TRE because he is the one who built my transmission.

To clarify the redline 75w-90NS is synchro friendly and is what I run in my transmission.

Here is a link to the TRE site that gives some good info on various available fluids based on the experience of one of the best DSM transmission builders. http://teamrip.com/manual_transmission_gear_oil_recommendation_info.html

As for clutches, I have never had a problem with ACT but they definitely had a bad run of disks that cracked around the springs. I may go southbend when I need a new clutch next time just to see what all the rave reviews are about. Check out TMZ Performance for info on southbend clutches, they have a good break down of what PP and disk you should use by power level.

 

[91talonts1]

They aren't that much more expensive, looks like somehow the 2200# PP is strong enough where the ACT i need a 2600#? Does that make any sense? It surely would be better to drive. Also, what friction material do you recommend? OFE sounds enticing for what I do.

How did you crack your discs? A lot of people swear by ACT but also a lot of people love southbend.

I contacted @twicks69 and he gave me his recommendation for the friction material. His website TMZ performance, used to have some descriptions of what the various discs should be used for, I don't know if it still does. But he's the dealer so he could tell you more.

As for the ACT, I don't know how they break. The ones I've had crack developed hairline cracks at the corners of the spring pockets, toward the outside of the hub. Research into it the last time it happened, turned up lots of similar experiences on other cars. As well as alot of people that have problems getting them to fully disengage at higher rpm. Especially on the Evo forum.
I've had this same southbend in my car for 3 years and never had an issue.

Edit: Just saw the above post must've missed it while typing. He already told you what I said about TMZ and the hub cracking .
I was not aware this cracking was related to a bad batch. The ones I had crack were over a span of at least a year and a half, but they very well could've all been from the same run. Still I'll stick with Southbend, I'm very pleased with their clutch.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

I contacted @twicks69Research into it the last time it happened, turned up lots of similar experiences on other cars. As well as alot of people that have problems getting them to fully disengage at higher rpm. Especially on the Evo forum.

Comparing ACT issues with the Evo 7+ to a DSM would be an apples to oranges comparison. Much of this is solved with careful assembly and proper adjustment.

 

[91talonts1]

Not really a comparison in the sense that these are the problems you'll have, just stating there's a group of people out there, across multiple platforms that have had one problem or another with ACT. But the same can be said about many things.
As I said originally, avoiding ACT was a suggestion based on personal experiences. Not trying to start any arguments here, as I'm sure somebody is already itching to jump to their defense.

 

[jpmxrider489]

I just went though this install on my gst. You should read up on jacks transmissions posts. He also has a very good video on adjusting the clutch. I also think you should keep the accumulator. It is to make pushing the clutch a bit easier. I left mine in and I am glad I did since its a heavy clutch. I do not have any info for clutch disks but I replaced mine with a act street disk. RRE has very good info regarding flywheels. Not sure how light your flywheel is but I chose the act streelite flywheel. I would definitly get a OEM pivot ball, retaining clip, TOB and fork if you feel the need to. I also saw this a good time to put new fluid in as well. Make sure you get your drain plug loose before you go through all of this.

.608" to .610" is ideal for DSM performance clutches. Up to .613" will work. Do not try to use anything shallower than .608" Stock is .612" Our flywheels come stepped to .609" to .610" always

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

 

[doubleclutch]

Oem flywheel bolts and fork/pivot ball will work fine for your goals. Depending on the age of your components and clutch selection u may need to shim the pivot ball.

Blue and medium loctite for the bolts. Other than that your pretty much set. Over the years I found using an engine hoist to position the transmission helps tremendously instead of fooling around with a jack.

Any reason i need to replace the fork? I assume it is the pivot ball that wears mostly. If i should replace it I will just get the stronger one.

Not really a comparison in the sense that these are the problems you'll have, just stating there's a group of people out there, across multiple platforms that have had one problem or another with ACT. But the same can be said about many things.
As I said originally, avoiding ACT was a suggestion based on personal experiences. Not trying to start any arguments here, as I'm sure somebody is already itching to jump to their defense.

No wars here. I am skeptical of ACT but seems like the most establish product line. This southbend stuff intrigues me, but I can't see how with an organic full faced disk and a 2200# PP they can support only 50 ft/lbs less then a 2700# PP and an kevlar disc. Makes me nervous about going with the SS line. The SS-x line is almost $150 more. Then again, I only want to do this once.

I just went though this install on my gst. You should read up on jacks transmissions posts. He also has a very good video on adjusting the clutch. I also think you should keep the accumulator. It is to make pushing the clutch a bit easier. I left mine in and I am glad I did since its a heavy clutch. I do not have any info for clutch disks but I replaced mine with a act street disk. RRE has very good info regarding flywheels. Not sure how light your flywheel is but I chose the act streelite flywheel. I would definitly get a OEM pivot ball, retaining clip, TOB and fork if you feel the need to. I also saw this a good time to put new fluid in as well. Make sure you get your drain plug loose before you go through all of this.

.608" to .610" is ideal for DSM performance clutches. Up to .613" will work. Do not try to use anything shallower than .608" Stock is .612" Our flywheels come stepped to .609" to .610" always

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

Accumulator shouldn't add any assist right? From what I can find it simply helps dampen the system to reduce vibration.

 

[doubleclutch]

Also, Any need to buy new bolts? Do the bolts fatigue after so long?

 

[91talonts1]

I'm a firm believer in future proofing, if you think you'll go bigger in the near future I would go to the ss-x if your budget allows. The pedal feel is not as stiff as a ACT 2600.

If you're going to be dragging the car, I'd definitely ditch the accumulator. You have much more pedal feel, and a more consistent engagement point. Both of which are gonna help slipping it out of the hole.

 

[boostdawd]

Any reason i need to replace the fork? I assume it is the pivot ball that wears mostly. If i should replace it I will just get the stronger one.

From reading online they tend to get worn/bent. If your going through dropping the trans might as well get a new one and avoid having to do it over again due to engagement issues. How many miles on your current one?

 

[doubleclutch]

From reading online they tend to get worn/bent. If your going through dropping the trans might as well get a new one and avoid having to do it over again due to engagement issues. How many miles on your current one?

I assume it has never been done. so 150k. I think I wil just replace it. At the end of the day it isn't that much.

 

[doubleclutch]

I'm a firm believer in future proofing, if you think you'll go bigger in the near future I would go to the ss-x if your budget allows. The pedal feel is not as stiff as a ACT 2600.

If you're going to be dragging the car, I'd definitely ditch the accumulator. You have much more pedal feel, and a more consistent engagement point. Both of which are gonna help slipping it out of the hole.

I can't see myself upgrading from the 16g anytime soon, but if it last, this clutch could be in there a while. Seems like the SS has held up to around 500 ft/lbs. I am a long way from that. That and per the TRE link above, it would help protect the drivetrain.

 

[91talonts1]

The SS should do nicely then, I had your setup mixed up with someone else's in my head for a minute.
I am running the SS-TZ/B. I was on a smaller turbo when I originally installed it, but it's been good on the current setup so far.