Replace rings with engine in car?

Posted by phishin84, Jan 10, 2006
Cylinder Head & Short Block - 4G63 cams, valvetrain, pistons, rods, stroker kits, 6-bolt swaps, hybrids, etc. Read this Forum's Strict Guidelines.

  1. phishin84

    phishin84 Proven Member

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    Hey guys, i don't post much as i can usually find all my answers by looking around, but ive finally run into major car problems. I noticed some low compression in my engine. I tested it, and came out with 29-150-150-150.
    I wet tested the #1 piston and it went from 29 to 91. This points to the rings I am pretty certain. Is it difficult to change the rings out with the engine still mounted? I don't have much money and I have even less time so i was wondering if this is even possible to do in a matter of a weekend.

    Also, when I rev the engine I can smell fuel. Behind the #1 injector under the rail it is wet looking, unlike the area behind the other injectors. I can't see or feel a leak anywhere but it smells like it. Does it make sense that a fuel leak at the #1 injector would cause the rings to go if it is not getting adequate fuel?

    Thanks to anyone who can help!

    -Roy
    #1
  2. Justins99GSX

    Justins99GSX Proven Member

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    Sounds like your Fuel Injector seal is bad on youre number 1 injector. This in turn is a vacumm leak which would cause that cylinder to run a little lean. Take your fuel rail off and check to see if the seal is there or cracked... pick up four new ones and put the fuel rail back on...(oh yeah be careful not to lose the little spacers that are on the bolts for the fuel rail)
    good luck :thumb:

    edit: you may want to go ahead and replace the top seals as well
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  3. TSIfreek

    TSIfreek Proven Member

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    From what you stated it sounds like cylinder 1 got washed out by a leaking injector and just pored fuel in and trashed the wall. Without some decent money to do it right I would just leave it as is because the cylinder needs to be rehoned (at least a ballhone) and re ringed for the new rings to seal the wall (now is glazed over) and the new rings wont seal very well. Did you have any problems with it runnning rough with 1 cylinder with 29 psi???:confused:
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  4. TERBOLASER

    TERBOLASER Proven Member

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    Dude replacing rings with out taking the engine out of the car is easy ( alittle more hassle if you have an awd more under car stuff to move. ) Ive done it twice before once for myself and another for a friend. Can be done in about15hours of work straight if you keep at it and HAVE ALL THE TOOLS AT HAND. When i do it i typiccally go and check compression record that keep all parts to there designated cylinders etc. Pull the head with manifolds attached to it off as one piece then take the oil pan and lower stuff off. and then that leave the block in the car. now your free to remover the pistons thru the deck of the block via turning the engine to get to each set of connecting rod bolts at the crank. ( you only have to turn the crank 180 degrees to do this. its not that bad honestly. But as previously stated you must hone the cylinders or you will come out with less compression than yous tarted with in all cylinder. but you can get a hone from any autoparts store and attach it to a drill. Some store let you borrow it for a small fee that is refund after you give it back. :rocks: thats my two cents take it or leave it. Just follow the hanes manual procedure for engine over haul thats what i basically did.
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  5. phishin84

    phishin84 Proven Member

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    But would this lean condition damage the rings? I thought this would more likely damage the piston itself or the valves perhaps. I understand the idea of the cylinder getting washed because it would destroy the rings, but I have a feeling there is a leak before the injector not the injector leaking excess fuel into the cylinder. Very confusing. The shop wants $4500 to rebuild the engine which is ridiculous so i dont know what to do yet.
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  6. TERBOLASER

    TERBOLASER Proven Member

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    well here is the thing if you think logically about it what happens when you ignite a lean mixture in relation to temperature?????:confused: well of course it burns hotter right?.... well when gases get hotter what do then tend to do expand right? well if a gase expands in its container in this case the cylinder and combustion chamber which wont really expand much wat happens in relation to pressure?.... it goes up the hotter you burn the more pressure involved.. so to go on it is very possible that you had two degrading factors to those rings if it was running really lean. 1# the rings were subject to extreme heat on the leve of what the rings usually do and the rings are metal so they are very affected by temperature 2# is that the pressure the rings were subjected to was extreme as well... and the rings are responsible for creating a seal between the piston and the cylinder walls. so your lean mixture could have very possible caused them to go out if they are stock rings original factory equipment right off the lot. thats what i think but did you check the plugs on the cylinder you expect to be lean there should be no carbon on it it should look sorta whitish yellow if it was running lean on that cylinder. check it to the picture in a haynes manual for spark plugs reading. now as for the rebuilding your motor if itsjust rings id say go for itjust follow the diriections and youll be fine if you need help ask some dsmers in your area they should be happy to help and show you a thing or two. :cool:
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  7. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    And it is relatively easy for our cars.

    Read here for a rebuild suggestion:http://www.captain.norton.clara.net/cnn3sec14.html.

    I have three cars that i've followed the above tactic with zero oil loss, blowby, sub factory compression. I checked all three blocks and they all came within "spec" and there was no visable scores or wear from "piston slap" proir to their rebuilds. This MAY NOT be your case as you may have washed your cylinder walls as previously mentioned. Then you'll need to bore so you'll need to hone anyway. So mic your block and then go from there.
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  8. bryanwheat

    bryanwheat DSM Wiseman

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    you know for sure that it is rings, a melted piston will lower your compression also, i bet your ring lands are broken. IT is very easy to replace a piston, or the rings.
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  9. TSIfreek

    TSIfreek Proven Member

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    Broken rings and ring lands is a sign of heavy detionation. Running to lean will put a hole in the piston.
    #9
  10. TERBOLASER

    TERBOLASER Proven Member

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    Well to recap on that post actually a compression test just doesnt mean rings it means valves head gasket and rings. Do a leak down and if the compression goes up dramatically then you know its the rings if it doesnt think valves or head gasket but most likely rings
    #10
  11. luvmygst

    luvmygst Proven Member

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    I am in the process of re-ringing my car right now. When you did these cars did you hone? I posted a question like this about a week ago and people thought I was crazy for not "breaking the glaze". But after researching I have just about decided to leave it. I am going back with iron rings so they will seat faster, do you have any suggestions?
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  12. phishin84

    phishin84 Proven Member

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    well i took my car to a shop today, and the mechanic is pretty sure its just a headgasket. This would explain why my coolant gets so pressurized and hot, and for the low compression. Hopefully thats all we will find. Im keeping my fingers crossed. As for my possible fuel leak, I am going to upgrade the lines, rail, and FPR. Anyone suggest any brands? I was thinking about the Aeromotive kit, seems like a good deal. Also, does anyone know how to test the injectors to see if they're still perfect? Thanks for the replies, guys!
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  13. totaleclipse_05

    totaleclipse_05 Proven Member

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    Talk to Xmasta, he recently did that. It was on a 420a, but he did it not too long ago.
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  14. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    I did not break the glaze on either. No honing on any. You must be able to proficient at determining the condition of the block before you decide. If the block needs a hone then it is because it is scored or out of round. Then, you should bore. It is all discussed in the link I added in my last post. Use only iron rings when you do not hone. Otherwise, you can use "chrome/moly" rings. But you don't have to then. They take longer to seat. Some different cases have quoted as much as 10,000 miles until they seat decent enough not to loose oil.

    I also believe in the hard breakin process: short bursts of rapid acceleration (to 5000 rpms or so) followed by deceleration in gear. Use sae 30 weight oil (without detergents) for the 1st 100 miles then drop the oil and replace with the same. Go to 1000-1500 miles and replace with your choice of oil and filter (stick with a 10w-30).
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  15. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    I have the Aeromotive FPR kit and other than the fact that it got shipped with the wrong fuel rail fitting (i got a small bolt patern fitting, i think a 2g), it does great. Fuel pressure rises exactly 1:1 with boost at spool up and holds presure with out fluctuation with a wide range of adjustablilty.
    #15
  16. phishin84

    phishin84 Proven Member

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    Thank you! That's what I wanted to hear. I am planning on picking up that same kit. I am not sure about my injectors, however. The previous owner of my car I think said they were the evo 8 injectors but I really have no way of knowing. Anyone know how I could tell? If they are stockers I will just change them out to avoid any future problems and get some more flow.
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  17. TSIfreek

    TSIfreek Proven Member

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    The color on the top of the injector will be diffrent the 1g 450s are light blue. Not sure what the evos are maybe yellow???
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