2G Play in shifter while in gear

Posted by jpmxrider489, Sep 12, 2017

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  1. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I have some play in my shifter when in gear. Im not sure what the issue is since we have so many bushings and moving parts in our shifter. I have always had this issue and just got sick of dealing with it. I've watched jafromobile video on our shifter and I dont think that is my issue.

    I have put in solid bushings where the plate mounts to the car, new solid bushings in the cables under the hood, and a no name short shifter hoping this fixed my issue. I also want to add that I replaced the whole shifter assembly with one out of a junk car to see if my issue changed or got worse and I didn't notice any difference. I tried uploading a video but for some reason says it isn't allowed the extensions.

     

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    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  2. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    - Engine mounts loose? If engine can move too far, the shifter will too.

    - Shifter cables moving? If casings not bolted down or broken, your shift will move the casings more than the tranny shift levers: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/tranny-shift-cables-in-mounting-bracket-on-tranny-jpg.131662/

    - Excessive shifter side to side play can be a worn select lever shoe: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/97-gs-t-fifth-gear-grinding-help.376341/#post-152266167

    - It's rare but an excessively worn interlock plate bolt can be a small source of shifter play or hard shifting. It can wear down it's bolt end diameter from the interlock plate sliding back and forth against it when the shift lever is moved left-right. Too much wear and the adjacent shift lug neutral position will move around a little or get harder to shift into gears. It doesn't account for very much sloppyness but every little bit helps right? It can be removed from the outside but be very careful to not move the shift levers when you do or you will be opening up the tranny: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/case-engine-side-jpg.98976/

    - Internal tranny issue like a worn shift fork.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    14.200 @ 95.000 MPH
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  3. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Thanks for the quick reply. I think maybe I am chasing multiple small issues that add up because every one of your reasons make sense to me. I will check these when I get a chance either today or tomorrow.

    Engine mounts are not the issue because I just put in solid mounts but I will check bolts to make sure they didnt vibrate loose but I doubt it.

    The select lever shoe is a possibility since I have never replaced it.

    The interlock plate bolt ill have to look at but is this a hard thing to do?

    When I did my clutch install I replaced everything but the fork (shame on me). But also worth noting that reverse is the only gear that is somewhat hard to get into. Feels like I just need to push right a little harder than normal. Also it does not pop out of gear or grind into gear. Here is a link to what my problem looks like (not me).
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  4. iceguru1114

    iceguru1114 Proven Member

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    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I think you're right to assume that it's a combination of issues; all components have play and it adds up, engineers call this "stackup" (kind of, but I digress...). However, barring the possibility of extremely worn shifter bushings, my experience has usually led me to find syncros, syncro shoes, forks, and hub/slider assemblies to be the main culprits of the slop you feel on a worn tranny. I've had very high quality shifters with all spherical bearings before and had the same exact slop observable in your video due to internal wear. Jack's sells economy rebuild kits to replace these items at a reasonable cost:

    https://www.jackstransmissions.com/collections/awd-rebuild-kits/products/kit-b-economy

    If you're handy with a wrench, measuring equipment, and you can follow instructions, a tranny rebuild is always a possibility. Plus, once you've done it once, you start saving yourself alot of money down the line because with a DSM, you may as well consider the transmission a service item.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Autocross Build

    14b   manual
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  5. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Looking at your video I'd say the select lever shoe is a real possibility. When it wears down the shifter has excessive left-right play (which is not in the shifter itself). A new one (MD712919) is 0.468" thick.

    The interlock plate bolt (MD717876) on the front of the tranny can wear down but it's very rare and you'd probably have trouble shifting into any gear then so I doubt it's your problem. The interlock plate prevents the tranny from shifting into multiple gears at the same time.

    Reverse hard to get into is very common on DSM's. It is usually rounded teeth on the reverse idler gear. You can just start to put it into reverse and then let the clutch out to where it just barely starts to grab and it will slip into reverse easily. Takes a little practice.

    Although not shifter play related, where does your clutch fork sit in the window? If not proper you can have hard shifting due to improper clutch alignment. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/clutch/armcentered.jpg
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    14.200 @ 95.000 MPH
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  6. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    That is not good news to me. Ill be honest here, if the tranny needs rebuilt, ill just leave it as is untill it dies. Then that gives me a reason to buy a built trans. Ill be willing to do what I can without dropping the tranny. I was really hoping that Its some bushing like said above. But that bushing I cant get from jnz or the dealer. Its all overseas stuff from a quick search. I was hoping it was something related to the assembly kind of related to this thread.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/side-to-side-shifter-play-looking-for-part-numbers.310752/
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  7. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Ill try and track down that select lever shoe. I agree that seams to be a issue. I did figure out the revere trick. I really hope the shoe fixes it. In the end, its not that big of a deal as I been using it like this. But I just decided that enough was enough and try and fix it. I was shocked that my shifter bushing and shifter didnt fix the issue.

    I did not shim the pivot ball. I wish I did but back when I did my clutch install I rushed things. Is the fork thing related to my issue you think? Here is my fork.
    Here is a thread regarding my clutch install.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-adjustment-issue.503276/
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  8. iceguru1114

    iceguru1114 Proven Member

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    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Unless there is some really bizarre problem, the clutch fork shouldn't have an effect on slop felt in the shifter.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Autocross Build

    14b   manual
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  9. mattp_65

    mattp_65 Proven Member

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    Lake Stevens, Washington
    Might want to check the bracket that attaches the cables to the transmission. Those sometimes get loose and also have bushings.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    11.98 @ 125 MPH
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.04 @ 121.000 MPH
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    Murdertalon likes this.
  10. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    Here are two bad pictures. I think it's missing. I'll get better pics either today or tomorrow.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  11. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    The clutch fork is not related to shifter play and it's position looks ok in the window.

    The bracket mattp_65 refers to is this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/tranny-shift-cables-in-mounting-bracket-on-tranny-jpg.131662/. If it is loose or it's mounting bushings (around the mounting bolts) are worn you can have shifter play as it then allows the cable casings to move (which they must not ever be allowed to move).

    Have someone move the shifter while you look at the cables (and casings) at the tranny end to see how they move. If that bracket is loose you will see it. Then move the tranny levers at the tranny yourself with your fingers to see how much of the play is only in the tranny. Then move only the select cable itself at the tranny that attaches to the select lever to see how much play is in the select lever shoe (select lever shoe shown here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/shift-levers-jpg.142964/) and lever bushings. Do same with shift cable to check it's lever bushings. Then have someone hold the cable ends at the tranny still (and yell when they move) while you slowly move the shifter to see how much play is there.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    14.200 @ 95.000 MPH
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  12. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    Here is a better picture of the select lever shoe is missing. Is this a easy install to put this back in. I just ordered one.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  13. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    I can definitly see that there is play due do that thing missing. The cable bracket is not loose at all. Just made sure. I will report back once installed. Hopefully this weekend.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  14. Jacolu3

    Jacolu3 Proven Member

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    Lake Grove, New York
    That's my video :)
    I did fix the problem. I took out the bolt that holds the shifter in place and added extra plastic bushing in there (more than stock) kinda custom bushing I found laying around.
    Kept adding stuff to get rid of the slop. Basically the hole in the shifter was bigger in diameter than the bolt causing extra play. Just try to find something that fits around that bolt to make it a tighter fit.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    16g   manual
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  15. idkiliketurbos

    idkiliketurbos Proven Member

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    Fox Valley, Wisconsin
    I've got the same thing with my car. The actual arms on the transmission have a little bit of play to them. Add the length of the shifter in the car and it gives me a little bit of side to side, and forward/backward play. It is one thing that always drives me insane about my car.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
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  16. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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    Yes very easy. Just make sure you put the 0.468" side of the shoe in the ring slot of the control shaft (which is 0.475"). Check the levers bushings for wear also.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    14.200 @ 95.000 MPH
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  17. gst_Jake99

    gst_Jake99 Proven Member

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    Joined May 3, 2016
    South Mills, North Carolina
    I replaced the plastic pivot cup at the shifter base as well as all of the sintered bushings in the shifter assembly and noticed a huge difference in shifter feel, despite the new and old bushings looking very similar without measuring thickness.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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    Jacolu3 likes this.
  18. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Best Answer
    I replaced the pivot cup as well. I also replaced one of the bushings in the assembly with a snap ring. I didn't realize there are so many.

    I replaced the part in the linkage and I do notice a huge difference. 1st is really tight which I like. Second is tight as well but the rest are not as tight. Is there something else I can do?

    Is the white shoe selector supposed to go vertical or horizontal?
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  19. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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    It goes the way it fits the tightest in the control shaft groove (aka ring). One side of the shoe is wider than the other. The control shaft groove is 0.475" wide and the shoe fits into it (the side that fits into it on a new shoe is 0.468"). Any space between the shoe and the control shaft groove adds to the shifter left/right play.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 4:03 PM
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    14.200 @ 95.000 MPH
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  20. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I'll see if I can fit it the other way. I just put it on what slid in easiest. Maybe I can fit it verticly for a tighter feel.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  21. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting Member

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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I tried to put in the other way to see what is tighter. And It only goes in one way. My shifter is much tighter. Thanks for all the help guys.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    20g   manual
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  22. Murdertalon

    Murdertalon Proven Member

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    East side, Washington
    Also thought I would add that you can replace the bushing at the transmission with ball bearings out of a skateboard or roller blades. I bought some to replace mine later with.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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