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ECMlink Not running correctly, need help

Posted by ErikTande, May 11, 2018

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  1. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

    774
    170
    Joined Dec 17, 2012
    Centennial, Colorado
    1990 Eclipse GSX
    Speed Density
    ECMLink v3 full
    hx35
    1000cc PTE injectors
    walbro450
    etc (profile is up to date)


    For a little context, this issue started back in December.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/runs-lean-then-dies-wont-stay-running.515235/

    The problem was intermittent but has been getting steadily worse. So I ordered a new generic 4 bar map sensor and the car would get running, but not correctly (rich at idle and goes lean when gas is pressed.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gm...r-generic-runs-rich-after-replacement.517303/

    I couldn't get that working so I ordered a real OmniPower 4 Bar Sensor, but that has the same issue, it's rich at idle and goes lean when gas is pressed).

    So that's where I'm at. Brand new MAP sensor. Here's my log, any help will be much appreciated!


    Pic added because everyone likes pictures.
    1990dsm.jpg
     

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    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  2. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    FWIW Those GM & GM style MAP sensors are pretty crappy. I never had very good reliability with them & have had bad one out of the box & don't use them anymore myself. Get a laboratory grade type sensor & be done with it. I typical use the AEM branded pressure sensors but any cylindrical metal body sensor will be better than the plastic Gm style sensors. And Yes, your problems are typical for a failing MAP.
     
  3. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    I noticed the sensor reads -5.5-inHg/+psi when the car is off before it's even started. Is that a problem? If so, is it a problem with the sensor or with calibration?

    **EDIT** Nevermind, -5 is normal for being at elevation (Denver, 5500 feet above sea level)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  4. bettfootball

    bettfootball Proven Member

    218
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    Joined Mar 7, 2010
    bettendorf, Iowa
    I've had two OMNI MAP sensors go bad and do exactly what you are talking about. Junk.
     
  5. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

    774
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    Centennial, Colorado
    What are the chances of 2 bad brand new sensors in a row though?
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  6. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

    688
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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Probably about the same as getting multiple bad things from Harbor Freight which is on par with get multiple bad starter, alternator, etc. from the car parts places. The plastic sensor are not very robust. You can break them just by dropping them & they are very sensitive to shock & vibration too.
     
    Vegas smith likes this.
  7. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    You can test your MAP sensor to make sure it's good if you connect it to a 5v supply, put some vacuum or pressure on the inlet & measure the output voltage on the signal terminal & verify if it's the right output voltage.
     
    GST with PSI likes this.
  8. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    I had a little time yesterday so I went out to do a little more troubleshooting. Now the car is doing the original problem (leans out and dies, won't stay running). Nothing has been changed. I tried ALL THREE MAP sensors I have, the car is doing the same thing with all of them now (leaning out and dies).

    FML


    I get the feeling it can't be the MAP sensor. I'll post the log later today, I forgot my laptop and I'm at work.



    What could cause it to sometimes lean out and die, and sometimes run way rich? Could a bad wideband do that?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  9. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

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    Walworth, New York
    Forgive me for my questions Erik as I am also at work and can't see the log. Are you simulating narrowband in the front o2? are you logging front o2 voltage?
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
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    ErikTande likes this.
  10. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    Yep, I'm simulating narrowband. My wideband is a PLX (Bosch LSU4.9) and it's about 4 or 5 years old. Could that be causing the issue? Log attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
    Loading...
  11. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Houston, Texas
    Your speed density tab seems pretty messed up. It looks like the whole table needs to come down a bit specially at idle and that could be what's causing this issue. I'd have someone help with that VE table.
     
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  12. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    The VE table might be its own issue, but considering it didn't change before this started, and the car is randomly running lean and dieing or running rich without any changes, I'd say that rules out the VE Table being the cause the problem.

    The inconsistency of the problem and the fact it sprung up out of nowhere leads me to believe it's a hardware or sensor issues, not the tune itself.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  13. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

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    Walworth, New York
    Still can't look at the log for a few more hours, Try locking the car in open loop and see if your issues persist. Locking in open loop takes the narrowband sim out of the equation and just assumes your fuel settings are correct, even if your AFRs are reading too lean or too rich, if it goes from swinging up and down to being consistent then you know that something in your closed loop operation is causing the problem. I had an o2 sensor die on me and THANKFULLY I had my laptop in the car to lock it in open loop so I could make it home and swap sensors.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
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    ErikTande likes this.
  14. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    Ooooooh good idea thanks!
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  15. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Wallingford, Connecticut
    That SD table might be why your O2 sensor failed, plus global is too close to 0 (-32) for 1000cc injectors. Somewhere in the -50s would make more sense

    you should get it in the ballpark very soon after you change the o2 sensor if thats your plan/issue rather than continuing to dump that much fuel on a new sensor



    My car would hate me if my timing table looked like yours.......

    E85?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
    ErikTande likes this.
  16. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    Yeah it's E85. I need to get this problem fixed and then hopefully get this thing tuned properly by someone who knows what they're doing (ie not me). :thumb:
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  17. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    If nothing else, download an EVO8 map off the ecmlink wiki and roll w/ that for now
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  18. ErikTande

    ErikTande Proven Member

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    Centennial, Colorado
    Tried it, no change. Does that 100% rule out the o2 sensor as the problem?
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  19. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Unplug the sensor for a test Erik.
    "This is a Test, only a Test"
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
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  20. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

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    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Sounds like a tune issue, not the sensor itself two go bad back to back, possible but sounds unlikely.
     
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  21. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

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    Walworth, New York
    Erik.. finally got a chance to look at your log. a lot of questions.
    1. Please adjust and fix your TPS (This can be done with the car off).
    2. Your global fuel should be -57.8% like was previously mentioned if you are running 1000cc injectors.
    3. Change your ALS/Knock from 3250 to 3k and 35% instead of 65%.
    4. Please copy and paste your Min octane table into your MAX octane table.. that max octane table..... just no.
    5. Why is your base tip in tps adjust so high? I've never really seen anyone mess with this table much.

    @GST with PSI. @bastarddsm I don't do speed density.. I'm wondering if some of the advice I've been suggesting is only effective for someone MAF based. I'm not seeing a consistent cycling of the front o2 and I'm watching the fuel trims spike as well.. I can't read the SD table to find out if the SD table is a compensation for the incorrect global/deadtime settings. Kyle I'm only asking for your opinion on this as I see Erik as a large contributor to our community, I do enjoy his channel and the stuff he puts out. It'd be a shame if he couldn't make anymore dsm videos because it won't run right :p
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
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  22. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    153
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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    I swapped to SD a few weeks ago and poured a ton of time into my setup and thoroughly understanding it...........for his global to be what it was, AND most of the table in the 90s, its just pouring on an insane amount of fuel. The idle #s are way high too.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  23. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    I will try to fire up the laptop and look. I have been on SD for 3 years. I am not an expert but had my car running pretty good. I could use help myself though, to be honest, and probably will ask when she is back up and running soon. (crossing fingers)
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
    Loading...
  24. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,507
    750
    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    It’s not as complicated as people make it out to be. The base ve settings in link will have just about any car running and driving.

    Why is it that when someone’s car is having major issues it never fails that someone points out a tps that’s not perfect? If it triggers the idle circuit when closed and reads over 75% wot it’s not causing any problem.




    How is the map sensor connected? Is it wired directly to the ecu harness or through a ecmlink maf cable?
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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  25. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Its very simple once you understand it, its when you dont understand it that its exactly what people make it out to be.

    Put in the time if you really want it, thats the easy part. So worth it.


    Cant be sure, but I dont think he was saying the TPS was the issue, he was just trying to help in pointing out some of the things that need attention going forward
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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