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2G No start after car wash

Posted by Turbodhi, Dec 8, 2018

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  1. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    Hey guys,

    I went through the car wash and as I was leaving and pulling up to the stop sign, the car died and has not started back up.

    I checked under the hood and the battery was covered in water so I dried it off in a quick attempt to fix the problem. Nothing. I have not begun the diagnosis yet because it's late. I'm also going to try it tomorrow hoping that it was just something that needed to dry off.

    The car will crank but not turn over. Fuel pressure is 45 psi and constant so its getting fuel to the rail. I have not checked if the injectors are firing. I couldn't tell if there was spark from my quick checking but I'll dig a bit deeper.

    Any other ideas as to what I might want to try for diagnosing this issue?
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  2. DSM H8ER

    DSM H8ER Probationary Member

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    Sioux Falls, South Dakota
    I would check plugs and see if they fouled out. Also air filter, if that's soaked it may have taken in water
     
  3. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    The air filter was fine and I'll double check the plugs tomorrow
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  4. Francesco

    Francesco Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 22, 2018
    Monticello, New York
    so u got fule..what dose it do when u start..
     
  5. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Is your tach moving when you crank it?
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  6. Francesco

    Francesco Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 22, 2018
    Monticello, New York
    i think somethig shorted out dude check your fuses and grounds mabey some relays and mabey altenator..mabey coil pack
     
  7. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

    44
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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    If I recall correctly, the tach moves when I try to crank it. When I turn the key, it tries to start like it normally does but it never does. I did a quick check of all the fuses and they seem to be ok. I'm going to give it another try tomorrow after it has a chance to dry out a bit overnight. If it still doesn't work, I'm going to have to bust out the multi meter and probes.

    And it wouldn't be my first rodeo with coils alternators or cam sensors with this car. Unfortunately I'm getting pretty good at diagnosing them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  8. Francesco

    Francesco Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 22, 2018
    Monticello, New York
    your on the right path dude..its one of thouse youll figure it out..let me know wjat happens ill try to help
     
  9. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    Thanks man! I'm working on it as we speak but it's cold and slow going.

    So a little update.

    I tried firing up the car after it sat overnight hoping it just needed to dry.

    Battery tested fine, cam and crank sensors both have 12 volts to them, ignition coils on the secondary coil were testing fine (maybe a little old so I'll keep them in mind), I'm going to try to find a paperclip or something to test the signal wire for the cam and crank sensor.

    I also have ECMLink, is there anything I should be checking in there?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  10. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Check for spark before anything else.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  11. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    Yesterday we pulled the spark plug wires off one at a time and laid them across the valve cover and it was not sparking during crank which would lead me to believe the issue is no spark. When I probed around a bit I checked one of your previous suggestions and the tach is not moving at all when cranking. The output of the signal wire on my crank sensor was also not giving me any readings. I checked with an analog meter and it didn't bounce. I also checked it with the frequency meter function on my digital meter and still nothing. At this point I'm thinking the issue has to be a bad crank sensor.
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  12. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Could be, your sure your timing belt didnt break? or balancer belt didnt break and take out the crank sensor? or crankwalk taking out the sensor?
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  13. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    The timing belt is fine and my car doesn't have a balance shaft so those are not the issue. The sensor is not smashed so it didn't crankwalk into the sensor.
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  14. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Ok good, well if its getting +5v to the sensor and a good ground on the other side of the plug (with the sensor disconnected and key on) then your looking at a crank sensor problem if it has no output during cranking.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  15. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

    44
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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    Alright guys. The problem was the crankshaft sensor. The car starts and runs but now there is this incredibly loud ticking sound coming from the timing side of the engine. There was always a ticking sound but it usually went away when I pushed in the clutch so I chalked it up to a throw out bearing going bad. But this is way worse and it goes with the engine rpm. So the ticking increases as the engine rpm increases. Any Ideas? And this ticking is the same with the clutch in and out.
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  16. too_genecide

    too_genecide Proven Member

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    yuma, Arizona
    Is your crank bolt torqued properly? Does the balancer wobble any?
    Check the signal generator plate for straightness.
    Check crankshaft run out.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

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  17. Francesco

    Francesco Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 22, 2018
    Monticello, New York
    check your timing belt tenshioner..if its a loud ticking coukd be a bad valve bro...crank sensor is what woukd make the car stop running but i didnt think of that cause u said car wash so i was thinking something got wet and shorted
     
  18. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    I will need to double check the crank bolt tomorrow, It may just need to be tightened down. The trigger plate should be ok but I had one ordered into the local oreillys just in case I need it. The balancer is not wobbling at all as far as I could tell. I don't believe crank walk is an issue here but I will double check to see if I have any play.
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  19. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    I think it may just be something needing to be tightened down a bit more. I'll have to double check it tomorrow when I get home from work.
     
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  20. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Starting to sound like crankwalk.

    That sensor looks smashed to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
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  21. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    Alright, it looks like its the trigger plate making contact with the sensor. I swapped out the sensor but it looks like there might be a wobble with it. One of the blades of the trigger plate passes through the sensor without contact and the other blade I can hear a slight scrape sound. I'm not sure what would cause the plate to sit unevenly. I also checked for end play by yanking and pushing on the harmonic balancer and it didn't budge at all.
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  22. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    The plate likely bent from the crankshaft endplay (crankwalk) being excessive, look: the crankshaft sensor is solidly mounted to a 150 or so pound chunk of cast iron, how do you think the solid mounted sensor came into contact with the trigger plate enough to destroy not only the sensor but the trigger plate? one of those parts had to move, no two ways about this.


    "Alright guys. The problem was the crankshaft sensor. The car starts and runs but now there is this incredibly loud ticking sound coming from the timing side of the engine. There was always a ticking sound but it usually went away when I pushed in the clutch so I chalked it up to a throw out bearing going bad. But this is way worse and it goes with the engine rpm. So the ticking increases as the engine rpm increases. Any Ideas? And this ticking is the same with the clutch in and out."

    These are all signs of crankwalk...denial aint just a river in Egypt. You should pull the pan and pull the thrust bearing, thats the only way to truly find out if theres crankwalk, pulling on the dampener is'nt a good check, the crank could be too far buried in the block to move enough with your bare hands, especially with the clutch installed, heres to hoping that its not an endplay issue but something moved and thats not a good sign.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    GT42   manual
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  23. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

    44
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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    That would explain why both blades of the trigger plate would come into contact with the sensor but at this point only one blade does. It's like the trigger plate is not sitting flat. Plus crankwalk makes a tick when you push in the clutch, my situation is the opposite.

    I'm not trying to discount any advice, I'm just trying to check every option before I determine it's an engine failure. Besides my issue is with the trigger plate touching the sensor. The sensor is fine the way it's mounted. This sound didn't exist before I replaced the sensor and now it's there. To me this seems like something changed between when the sensor failed and when the new one was installed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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  24. steve

    steve DSM Wiseman

    12,586
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    Joined Feb 3, 2002
    St. Charles, Illinois
    Perhaps some foreign object fell down into the timing belt area that the trigger plate swept into the sensor and smashed the two of them.

    Have you bent the trigger plate flat yet and see if the noise goes away?

    Do you have all your timing belt covers on?
     
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  25. Turbodhi

    Turbodhi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2015
    Olathe, Kansas
    I replaced the old trigger plate because it looked rough and the new one is still doing it. And no I do not have any timing covers on right now because there is an oil leak that I'm working on tracking down and it would be under the cover. But I will be bending the plate when I get home tonight.
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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    T25   manual
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