2G No power to the ECU

[KeelesKustome]

0. no it does not crank
1. voltage at ecu's 82 with key on +12.04
2.ohms to ground from ecu's pin 26 +12.04
3.i did not make it run once, i put a 12 v wire to my 25 pin on the ecu and it activated my fuel pump and turned on my ecu light for 4 second then it went off and it allowed me to loggin with ecmlink and check for any adnomalities and it didn't sho any, but the car was not running.

4. i am unsure on the relay pins as what is which... so heres what i got for ya,
the starter relay.

85 87 87

85 30


starting from top left and working down then next single 87 pin, then 87 and 30.


85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

single 87 jumps all over the place constantly and when the key/ is turned on it still does but a little lower, voltage was like .005- .078 etc..

87 has .025v when key is on /.015 when tring to crank it

30 has 12.07 and /12.08 when cranking.

heres extra for you i have got so far as i thought you might ask. all at the ecu with it plugged in.

pin 3 fuel pressure solenoid has 11.34 v

pin 8. fuel pump relay has 11.98 v

pin 12. power supply + 0.713 v

pin13. ground has 12.04 v

pin25. power supply +0.713 v

pin 26. ground +12.04 v

pin 36. check engine light +11.89 v

pin 38. MFI relay 7.77 v

pin 71. ignition switch ST -0.001

pin 80. back up power +0.015 v

pin 82. ignition switch 1g +12.04 v

pin 92. sensor ground 12.03 v


i hope i did the important ones, i did this after removing any barrell connectors and solding all wires with shrink wrap over it, it's been a long day at work, while doing this.

tell me what to do next

 

[sniver]

0. <del>does not crank</del>

**Can we jump it to crank?

1. <del>voltage at ecu's 82 with key on +12.04</del>

**good

2.ohms to ground from ecu's pin 26 +12.04

**Invalid answer.

3.i did not make it run once, i put a 12 v wire to my 25 pin on the ecu and it activated my fuel pump and turned on my ecu light for 4 second then it went off and it allowed me to loggin with ecmlink and check for any adnomalities and it didn't sho any, but the car was not running.

** I bet if you jumped the starter it would of ran in this scenario.

4. i am unsure on the relay pins as what is which... so heres what i got for ya,
the starter relay.

**picture? results with relay Installed or removed. I need results while removed. If not could you at least Tell me where the pins go? (EX: 85&85a are the relay coil. 30's power input, normal closed to 87, and activate output to 87a

85 87 87

85 30

** Isn't it marked 85 85a 87 87a 30?


starting from top left and working down then next single 87 pin, then 87 and 30.

**

85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

single 87 jumps all over the place constantly and when the key/ is turned on it still does but a little lower, voltage was like .005- .078 etc..

** sounds like no voltage as displayed by a cheap DMM

87 has .025v when key is on /.015 when tring to crank it

30 has 12.07 and /12.08 when cranking.

heres extra for you i have got so far as i thought you might ask. all at the ecu with it plugged in.
'
** I like more info.

pin 3 fuel pressure solenoid has 11.34 v

pin 8. fuel pump relay has 11.98 v

pin 12. power supply + 0.713 v

pin13. ground has 12.04 v

**Invalid answer. How are you testing this. You measure resistance in ohms from the ground leads to a chassis ground. Voltage is not an answer.

pin25. power supply +0.713 v

pin 26. ground +12.04 v

**invalid answer

pin 36. check engine light +11.89 v

pin 38. MFI relay 7.77 v

pin 71. ignition switch ST -0.001

** while cranking, or what?

pin 80. back up power +0.015 v

**should be 12v (always)

pin 82. ignition switch 1g +12.04 v

**only with key on correct?

pin 92. sensor ground 12.03 v

**invalid answer



EDIT: Just to make sure your using your meter correctly read over this please. Incorrect use here will make me lead you wrong.
http://mechatronics.mech.northwestern.edu/design_ref/tools/multimeter.html

 

[KeelesKustome]

okay so i may have measured my grounds wrong.. I've always measured my power not grounds, so thats a redo, but i can guarentee the power ohms are correct , don't mind the pink, i needed to see my answeres stick out so i did.

0. <del>does not crank</del>

**Can we jump it to crank? yes i can bypass the starter solenoid ground and it will crank
1. <del>voltage at ecu's 82 with key on +12.04</del>

**good

2.ohms to ground from ecu's pin 26 +12.04

**Invalid answer. i see what i did wrong although you can know i at least has good ground right? i thought i was suppose to put the positive to a 12v source and check to see if the ground was working correctly./ i will redo these grounds i guess.

3.i did not make it run once, i put a 12 v wire to my 25 pin on the ecu and it activated my fuel pump and turned on my ecu light for 4 second then it went off and it allowed me to loggin with ecmlink and check for any adnomalities and it didn't sho any, but the car was not running.

** I bet if you jumped the starter it would of ran in this scenario. i did jump the starter and it did not run because then the ignition coils were not getting fire

4. i am unsure on the relay pins as what is which... so heres what i got for ya,
the starter relay.

**picture? results with relay Installed or removed. I need results while removed. If not could you at least Tell me where the pins go? (EX: 85&85a are the relay coil. 30's power input, normal closed to 87, and activate output to 87a
i checked it with it unplugged,

85...........87........... 87a
/----------------------/
85a.......................30

** Isn't it marked 85 85a 87 87a 30?


starting from top left and working down then next single 87 pin, then 87 and 30.

**

85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

85 has 10.8v when key is on /12.5 when key is turned to start

single 87 jumps all over the place constantly and when the key/ is turned on it still does but a little lower, voltage was like .005- .078 etc..

** sounds like no voltage as displayed by a cheap DMM
well i was told by tim if i hurt is multimeter i have to buy him a new one and it cost $350 for he's our city mechanic for all the city cops and all vehicles, he's letting me use his tools, he just doesn't have alot of time to help trace down the wire connection, you can take this measurement as accurate because it's def. not a cheap tool i am using

87 has .025v when key is on /.015 when tring to crank it

30 has 12.07 and /12.08 when cranking.

heres extra for you i have got so far as i thought you might ask. all at the ecu with it plugged in.
'
** I like more info.

pin 3 fuel pressure solenoid has 11.34 v

pin 8. fuel pump relay has 11.98 v

pin 12. power supply + 0.713 v

pin13. ground has 12.04 v redo: but it is grounding

**Invalid answer. How are you testing this. You measure resistance in ohms from the ground leads to a chassis ground. Voltage is not an answer.


pin25. power supply +0.713 v - this doesn't look good to me

pin 26. ground +12.04 v

**invalid answer


pin 36. check engine light +11.89 v

pin 38. MFI relay 7.77 v - that also seems odd

pin 71. ignition switch ST -0.001

** while cranking, or what?
both it did nothing
pin 80. back up power +0.015 v

**should be 12v (always)
i know right..... that pretty odd. I'm seeing alot of power issues here. which makes me wounder why? should i fix this and then continue ? what would the fix be?

pin 82. ignition switch 1g +12.04 v no thats with it on ACC when i cank/ it is 11.84

**only with key on correct?


pin 92. sensor ground 12.03 v

**invalid answer gotcha


EDIT: Just to make sure your using your meter correctly read over this please. Incorrect use here will make me lead you wrong.
Multimeter Tutorial

 

[sniver]

You measure voltage dc at a power wire. You want 12v at any power wire ideally. Less than 12v indicates power draw, or resistance in a circuit.

You measure ohms btween ground wires and chassis ground. We do this because just because we have continuity doesn't mean it'll function properly. Like a plugged up drain will drain, it has backup due to the restrition.

Measuring voltage on grounds us usless other that it does indicate continuity. Your tests performed in that manor are like getting a test light and checking for opens. Yes it is good info, but we can do better..

Read over the link and get familiar with the different settings. A expensive tool not used right doesn't help .

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[KeelesKustome]

i understand, but it still remains that that everything except the grounds were checked correctly,
leaving alot of power wires not recieving the full 12v

 

[sniver]

I figured as much, just ensureing we all on the same page. Ill go over the schematics again tonight. I keep comeing to the conclusion that you ignition switch is the common item between all circuit.

Though I think you ruled that out in your offshoot thread.

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[KeelesKustome]

I have replaced my ignition switch yes. My thoughts are to follow my starter relay and figure out why i'm still not recieving the proper signal to crank.
and then i should go figure out why the backup power supply for the ecu isn't getting proper voltage ect.... wouldn't that be the right direction to go?

 

[sniver]

Yes we need to figure out why the starter relay isn't getting activated.
&why the mpi relay isn't getting activated.
&why there is no backup power.



Sent from my Droid

You replaced the switch, but did you test the wiring to see if your getting power everywhere?

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Pin 1 has 12v all the time.

acc--- pin 6 12v, pin 2-5 0v
on----pin 2,4,6 12v, pin 5 0v
start--Pin 2& 5 12v, Pin 4,9 0v

 

[KeelesKustome]

okay progress:

I have a starter cranking now.
On the starter relay in the dash you will see a small black wire with a red tracer going into the relay, this is the opposite ground that completes the connection to crank the car,
We traced it out to the multi connector in the engine bay

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From here the little black wire with the red tracer turns into a large blue wire with a green tracer. -
Ok now this wire runs to the oe radiator fan.

okay: my car has the oe fans removed when my boss had baught the car, he had ran a seperate relay with a all time power wire and ground, also he tapped into the white wire with a blue tracer in this harness for the signal wire to turn on the slim fans,
This leaves the ground wire for the starter totally unused: how the car use to crank with this setup...... i have absolutely no idea, but if you jump the large blue wire with a green tracer to the large black wire underneath it, it will crank over all day, who would of thought a radiator fan would keep it from cranking..

Anyways, i am still not recieving power to the ecu, so tonight i'm gona start checking the grounds at the antitheft unit and go try to trace any non powered wires , that should be their.

my mfi relay has a power wire red with a black tracer, it has no power.
this also runs to my park neutral saftey switch, in turn runs to pin 91 to the ecu. at all 3 places it is not getting power........................ if it goes to the ignition switch i cannot find it, any ideas? does it change colors.... also i founf\d the same size and color near the antitheft area and it also has no power.... and I'm positive they are suppose to.... need help tracing this i guess to either a relay or the ignition which ever turns it on.
every wire out of the ignition has power though.

The 95 turbo MFI relay wiring:

1) Black/Blue Fuel Pump Power output
2) Red MFI Power output
3) Red MFI Power output
4) Red/Black MFI Power input
5) White/Red ECU Fuel Pump Relay control
6) Blue/Green ECU MFI Relay control
7) Black/White Fuel Pump Power input

The ECU control lines are grounded by the ECU to activate the relay.
The MFI Power input comes from the MFI fuse.
The Fuel Pump Power input comes from the Ignition Switch.

Grounding pin 5 while the ignition switch is on should turn on the fuel pump. The MFI Relay should click and switch the incoming power on pin 4 to pin 1.

 

[sniver]

Mpi has no switched power, strait from the battery.
The fuel pump gets it from the ignition.
Lets solve the mpi side issue first.
A-32 is damn near an identical connector to the a-101 you found your last problem near.

Its either blown fuse,poor terminal retention, or a wire open. It's a red/ black the whole way from the fuse the the relay.

1. Pull the mpi fuse, check for voltage on the battery side. 12v?.. replace fuse and continue.
2. Separate connector A-32. Probe pin 6 on the battery side. red/black tracer the whole way) 12v?.. continue. Other wise find open wire/blown fuse.
3. last step would be to check for 12v at the mpi plug... you don't have 12v there.
....a. If you make it to this step, you have a open wire between A-32 pin6 and the Mpi plug.
....b I would probe the mpi side of A-32 with one lead, and run a jumper into the car at the mpi 12v input pin on the connector (mpi relay disconnected) check for resistance, should be out of limit. If there is resistance of 1ohm or less you have poor terminal retention. if not continue.
....At this point we assume the wire is broke/open and must be repaired/rerun. I always run a wire along with the harness, but not inside it due to complications of the task. Use your discretion here.
4. If you don't have power at the mpi after step 3,return to step one and complete all tasks again, this time with a blow torch attached to your dominate hand.

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[KeelesKustome]

i have my harness apart for very easy access now, i traced from the 20A fuse under the hood the red with black tracer, it goes directly to the multi connection plug that starter ground had went to. from their it turns black with a white stripe.
I followed this all the way directly to the fuel pump relay.
so i started in reverse, i traced from the mfi relay to the engine bay and it goes directly into the park neutral saftey switch., i do not see another power wire comming out of this. i also added a12 volt wire in the engine bay the the red and black wire attatched to the neutral saftey switch, doing so gave my mfi relay power when i turn the igniion switch forward while probing the MFI power output on the ecu, blue wire with green stripe, both 12 and 25 on my ecu 12 volts, the backup power was only around 7 volts , the fuel pump would also kick on when cranking, the alarm worked as well, even in doing this it seems i was somehow completeing the ground. as the ecu light came on etc... although it still was not getting fire out of the coils.
and other than the issue below i thought i had made progress but today i am just in dispair because i spent 11 hrs on it yesterday and only figured out that much

also new symptom, went to turn my key on today and the battery srs etc... dash lights were on like always, i removed the key..... they were still on they won't go off unless you disconect the battery and my ignition wires were still getting 12v's.... not sure where to start for this.

 

[sniver]

You fixed two wires. Its one of them.



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[KeelesKustome]

well what does that mean?

why would i have to give the power to the mfi?

why isn't the ecu sending the signal to ground the mfi relay?

what would cause all of this to not recieve power?

the park neutral saftey switch by chance?

Why would i have to complete the starter circuit when originally it wasn't need to start the car?

and why are my dash lights staying on even with nothing bypassed?

 

[sniver]

You fixed a wire up front and now the car won't power down....you added voltage to a dead wire. Hmm

You said you had no voltage on the input to the mpi, the red/blk wire,right? Did you do what I posted to fix that problem.

The diagram for the nuetral saftey switch is already posted. There need to be continuity between the two pins in the diagram in park. Test it.

This problem isn't getting solved by jumping around to everyrhing on the car. Chill out and fix one thing at a time . No mpi power? Fix it before you wonder about the ecu,theft,grounds,relays,inhibitors!

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[KeelesKustome]

okay I gave the Mfi power. Done.

the mfi now isn't getting ecu signal to ground.

and the dash lights still aren't going off.

trying to find a new wiring harness and ecu just in case.

::::::::::::::::
I just read that the backup pwer supply on the ecu +12v constant memory backup wire, is sourced from the dome light circuit).

whats the chances this has a short causing my dash lights to stay on, consideringthey are connected together and I'm having problems with both.

i also read where people somehow bypass the switch for the mfi to ground in the ecu by adding a bypass wire... I am curious on this as it would diagnose a bad ecu much quicker.

 

[sniver]

Chances that your backup wire is keeping your dash lights on? possible.
Power for the backup come from dedicated fuse 11. On this fuse is;

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....................,......fuse..amperage..fuse color.................description...

Lots of possibilities here...



Yes you can ground the trigger wire to manually activate the mpi relay. I said to do that in post #5

This is my interpretation of the fsm and my experienced with 1gs. I know yours is a 2g, but its all relevant

The ecu should receive power on pin 25 and 12 from the mpi when pin 38 on the ecu is pulled to ground. And the fuel pump is kicked on when pin 8 of the ecu is pulled to ground.

pin 38 is pulled to ground anytime that the ecu gets a power from the ignition wire, at pin 82.
pin 8 is pulled to ground under certain conditions when the ignition provides power to pin 82.

With key on check for power at pin 82. If you have power there , attempt to provide grounds for pins 8 & 38 to bypass the ecus mpi control and force it on. By grounding those two pins, you should have power to the fuel pump and pins 12&25.

Make sure there is continuity between pin 38 and pin 8 of the ecu with there respective mpi terminals. I would say which, but the pin numbering for the mpi on the fsm is illegible.


Pin 71 is the ecu signal for the key in the start position. should only have voltage when turned to start, fsm says over 8volts is acceptable.. If it doesn't have power in the start position you"ll have to: check continuity between pin for the ecu and pin 4 for the starter relay. then verify that the relay works, make sure pin 4 has continuity with pin 5 when pin 1 is connected to power and pin 3 is connected to ground. then check continuity between pin 1 for the starter relay and pin 9 on connector B-63. If the cause for no power to pin 71 is not found by this point theres an issue with the theft deterrent system.

You said you have no spark, but do you know if you have injector pulse?
Do you have power to the coils? I can explain how to determine if needed.
All the while your not throwing any codes?

*edit. I found a discrepancy in my manuals. The electrical manual says pin 82 for Ig1 voltage input, and the body/motor book says pin 92...though its in a list between 81 and 83. mistype perhaps?

 

[KeelesKustome]

i did ground it but i wasn't getting spark, and my interior lights fuse blew before the interior dash lights now stay on, after replacing the fuses. weird... need to figure this out and make sure i am getting 12 v to the ecu here.

so i can permenantly add this hot wire to the mfi relay right?
i can permanatly add the forced ground too correct? or should i put it to a toggle switch? if it makes it work is all that i care about.

also the no spark.... could it be becuase my cas is 180 out? i was recieiving power to the cas which is wired into the crank angle sensor. because i did a 6 bolt swap, and it is wired correctly..

also at this point would our snap on diagnostic machine be of any help, or even my dsmlink?

 

[sniver]

Your cars fu*king possesed. No doubt. You have like 5 major issues occurring. And they all started on day randomly?

Not helpful unless you can get it to fire. take that cas out and spin it by hand , with the ecu powered up, and see if you hear the injectors firing, or the spark firing.

Mpi can have a permanent hot, the ground need to be toggled or else your battery will die from the ecu always being on. Are you sure your ecu is still unable to provide its own ground?

 

[KeelesKustome]

I know it's not our ecu exzactly and some of the number pins are different but the overall gist seems to be the exzact same.
does anyone know which pin a should try running a jumper wire too on the back of the ecu board, just to check and see if thats my problem, if so i then know i need to send it and have it repaired.

ECU not booting, ECU not grounding main relay pin 8 | Galant VR-4 > Technical Discussions | GalantVR-4.org Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Forum

i am still going to start with the back up pwer supply now, as it's obviously shorting out somewhere.

Your cars fu*king possesed. No doubt. You have like 5 major issues occurring. And they all started on day randomly?

Not helpful unless you can get it to fire. take that cas out and spin it by hand , with the ecu powered up, and see if you hear the injectors firing, or the spark firing.

Mpi can have a permanent hot, the ground need to be toggled or else your battery will die from the ecu always being on. Are you sure your ecu is still unable to provide its own ground?

Don't give up now we've come so far: cookie.....

ok heres where i am.


i need a diagram of where all this back up power wire goes and the colors it turns to, as well as the fuses and relays it links to. i'm gona find this bastard and fix it and go from their to see what happens.

 

[sniver]

Back up power wire has to many off shoots.
Go to scribd.com and look up 97-99el . That's the electrical fsm for your car. You'll have to look through it, find an diagram that has a relation with dedicated fuse 11 that is for your 2.0 turbo auto.

Ill investigate tonight, but I'm not posting all 10-40 diagrams .

I'm not giving up, but I'm growing tired of your approach. I give you specific instructions, and you don't give specific feedback. If you look, beggining of thread, I posted links of how to differentiate pins on the ecu. And what to jump to determine if it was a ecu,mpi relay, ora wiring issue. You said not the ecu, no way, and moved on. Now your asking. How to do something I asked you do previously .

Ok I feel better now.

Ground pin 8 and 38 of the ecu. This forces the mpi on and should result on power applied to pin 12&25.


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[KeelesKustome]

ground them individually, or put them together?

sry back then i was really trying to get the starter working too, I've slowed down and am taking my time since then.

 

[sniver]

Doesn't matter as long as they both see ground, they are both connected

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[KeelesKustome]

yeah they are both grounded.

 

[sniver]

AS in you grounded them, or the ecu does?

 

[KeelesKustome]

you told me to ground them,, and i did because they were not..............

side note:
lights on the dash still stay on when key is removed, the door chime is not chiming and the key illumination light isn't comming on. I gutted the interior of my car seats carpet everything so i could trace this wire issue in the car as well, i haven't had much luck yet.

also i am purchasing a new ecu and wiring and engine wiring harness within the week, to check them as well, as i realize i am not throwing my money away because i can resell them for what i am paying. if they are not the issue.