Newbie discussion about Holset HE351VE vgt

[gte]

Hi,

I'm sorry if these are common questions, being a newb I can only post in the general tech forum.

Which should be paid for one of these turbos?
Where can you find them besides ebay?
Do you need an external wastegate on a gas motor?
Is there an issue with over spinning them on decel?
Is gas mileage terrible due to the restrictive a/r ratio off of boost?
What are the different controller options?
Does anyone have the dimensions of this turbo?
Where can you get the turbine inlet flange? The turbine outlet flange?
Are there anything else worth knowing ahead of finding out the hard way?

Thanks for reading.

 

[xiteamxi]

Which should be paid for one of these turbos?
Honestly not sure I've seen them go from 50-500 I'd say for 300ish a good one can be had.

Where can you find them besides eBay?
Wrecking yards or from diesel guys upgrading?

Do you need an external wastegate on a gas motor?
Yes

Is there an issue with over spinning them on decel?
no idea?

Is gas mileage terrible due to the restrictive a/r ratio off of boost?
You can shim or adjust how far it closes so I'm going to say no.

What are the different controller options?
Fleece controller has Been used on the trucks ,waste gate actuator use to control it mainly used in car application saves space too.

Does anyone have the dimensions of this turbo?
big 10x10x10 maybe ? I can measure if needed.

Where can you get the turbine inlet flange? The turbine outlet flange? The inlet flange is some times called a t3.5 its Available on eBay for 25$ item #131125196618 the out let flange is a v band.

Are there anything else worth knowing ahead of finding out the hard way? If your thinking of using it on a dsm you will most likely need slim fans and the compressor cover has a 90 degree out let that may cause an issue.

I've have been debating using one of these for a long while there was a kid on here who ran one but he seemed to have disappeared and never posted back with many results.

 

[gte]

Hi, thank you for the reply.

It's for a Toyota and not a DSM, measurements would be great if you have time. It seems like this turbo has been ran more in the DSM world for gas motors than anywhere else, so that is why I am posting here. Is that a correct assumption? Your last sentence makes me think it might be incorrect?

So the vband outlet is a standard vband? Is it 3" or 4"

 

[xiteamxi]

Holsets have been well used in the dsm world (I have a hx35 in bolt on housing) its just the vgt holsets are uncommon. Ill try to measure it if I get a chance, as for the v band I'm not sure i will say the elbow from the trucks that v bands to the turbine housing reduces the v band size for the down pipe to v band too.

 

[bastarddsm]

It's a shame noone ever pushed one of these. I want to try one, but they are soo goddamn big. I'd think the big housing will let you max out the 7 blade HX40 wheel. It should be capable of 700whp on a well setup car.

I always wanted to try the duramax VGT. Its a GT3788 with a vgt housing. I would think 800whp out of that..

 

[gte]

The size of it might not allow it to fit, which is why I'm asking for measurements.

 

[bastarddsm]

Going in a Supra?

 

[gte]

Haha, what made you ask that? I own a Supra but it is not for that car.

 

[bastarddsm]

you said toyota, and your name is GTE . Do you work for the phone company? haha

 

[gte]

It's funny, you aren't the first one to make the phone company reference, ! Either way, very good match up, you know your vehicles outside of the DSM world obviously.

 

[gte]

What is the orientation that these have to be mounted and has anyone tried machining a different (smaller exterior wise) turbine housing to fit this monster? What about a smaller compressor housing?

 

[JusMX141]

If you're asking whether smaller housings are available, then a VGT Holset is not for you.


Regarding some of your initial questions- I've bought these units for as little as $50 before with bad VGT control boxes and absolutely nothing wrong with the turbo. There's no wastegate so if you can't control the VGT function, it's useless. The factory applications use a shaft speed sensor in addition to the electronic VGT controller to maintain boost regardless of load.

Unsure why you're assuming a turbo would overspeed on decel. Our cars do not have jake brakes.

Dimensions are....huge. And heavy.

Here's a guy that converted his to a manual controller in a rather hokey (but seemingly-effective) manner: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-he351-vgt-is-goin-on-my-car.323774/

Inlet flange would have to be custom-cut since the only application is a 6.7L Cummins, outlet flange is a v-band.

 

[gte]

I believe you've misunderstood, I'm not asking for a smaller a/r, I'm wondering if a more automotive friendly housing was available that was not so large and heavy, you can tell spacial constraints was not high on the list when designing that turbo. If you did, then your response is inappropriate as anyone could benefit from more room and less weight, I ask because I'm concerned about it fitting at all.

Where do you find them when you purchase them?

The overspeed is something I read about people mentioning when using a spring loaded internal gate apparatus as a way to control it, that did not have a slight hysteresis when it closed.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to look into the CAN protocol too, I'm guessing that having a setting for shaft speed based on boost, rpm and tps would be ideal.

 

[xiteamxi]

The vgt veins move inside the exhaust housing so swapping out a housing like you would on a hx35 for a 12cm 14cm ect is out of the question. Going to the shop now ill post back with measurements shortly.

 

[Bob_Gobblin]

I am setting up my 7 bolt with a Hx35 bolt on housing and every thing needed to push this to the limits. I was able to find a shit ton of info on the Holset's on this site. All the info is here just have to look.

 

[Seamus]

From the results I've seen on this site or linked to other sites the holder vgt doesn't impress me. I also think their vgt system is inferior to other manufacturers. Bw and kkk have system that alters the effective size and attack on the wheel. It is also much more compact. I'm betting when the new gt2 comes out there will be a compact vgt turbo available that can flow 4-500hp in single turbo configuration. I know nothing beyond the basics on how these turbos are actually controlled. So I can't be any help there.

 

[gte]

I was actually looking for something more compact, not to swap the housings with another Holset. It looks like the housing is cast out of 1/2 thick wall material from pictures and it also appears it could be shaped in a more compact design, as well as with a standard t3 or t4 flange. Somewhat similar to how treadstone makes turbine housings for some of the Borg Warner turbos. I guess the end result is that no company does this.

I'm anxious to hear of your measurements. I saw one next to a Coke bottle which is 12" long, and it appeared to be about 2/3rd's the length of the Coke bottle, so I'm guessing it's about 8" long without the elbow? The turbine diameter looked to be as wide in diameter as the turbo was long.

The vgt veins move inside the exhaust housing so swapping out a housing like you would on a hx35 for a 12cm 14cm ect is out of the question. Going to the shop now ill post back with measurements shortly.

 

[Seamus]

I have a life size working model of the vgt setup used on the 911 turbo on my desk. It is very compact id say the whole turbo is no larger than a stock 14b turbo. The problem is it only supports maybe 350 hp. Newer versions should be able to support quite a a bit more. I'm sure bw has larger applications out there in the heavy duty market. Go to a local heavy duty diesal shop and talk to the parts guys. I got turned onto the turbos from certain case tractors 10 years ago and used to get them for 450. Tthey started marketing them as high performance bw turbos about 3-5 years later for over a grand.

 

[xiteamxi]

Well as I said roughly 10x10 12 long and heavy with out actually throwing it on the scale I'd have so say 50 lbs ish range.

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And since we like comparison shots: top left he351vgt top right hx35 14cm non waste gated housing bottom left hy35(9cm single scroll waste gated housing) bottom right hx35 Mitsu bolt on housing (.55ar)

 

[gte]

Hi, thanks for those pics and measurements.

Do you happen to know where I can find the CAN command codes and protocol? I saw it somewhere looking on the net on Friday, but I can't find it now. There were something like 1000 CAN codes that could be sent to it?

 

[gte]

I found this, is there additional information besides this?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/he351ve-how-to-control-the-factory-actuator.475199/

 

[xiteamxi]

Not sure , now keep in mind it doesn't have the control box on it in those pictures that's another 2"x6" 2" tall roughly box on the side of the center section.

 

[gte]

Ok. Do you know if there are any issues in reclocking it a different way then factory? As long as the center cartridge stays oriented like factory?

 

[xiteamxi]

It can be reclocked as long as you keep the oil drain in the correct orientation. There's a alignment pin on the exhaust side that keeps it in the stock orientation this can be pulled out or broken off and clock it as you like. I'd like to mention the spot inside the turbine housing where the veins move in and out of spins allowing it to be clocked but its a slight pain to realign the housing if it was removed to pull the alignment pin the over all weight doesn't help this .

 

[gte]

So do the veins actual fit into those slots? And the vein is long enough to where it slides back and forth into the slot using the slot as some sort of point of stability whether an 1/8 of an inch of the tab is inserted into the vein or the entire tab is inserted into the vein?

What about the "silencer" or whatever it is on the front of the compressor housing inlet? What is that for and if it is a silencer, what happens specifically when you remove it? Louder whine? Louder rush of air?

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