Newb dsmlink help

[geosok]

Hey again, I'm back hoping for more help because I am at a loss. I have been watching the demo videos, reading the ecm wiki, searching forums and youtube and I can't get the most basic issue dealt with.

I installed the v3 chip and my FIC 1120 injectors with no problems. I have gone over the multiple checklists on this site and theirs and have checked all the boxes. The car was running great before on the v2 with 720s and a custom tune done by the previous owners mechanic.

Here is the issue I am having, my idle will not drop below 1500 rpms steadily and visually/ear test bounces between 12-1600. I have attached a data log I did after getting her up to operating temp. I have gone over all the info I can find, tweaked parameters and nothing changes the idle, my AF gauge bounces between 14.2 and 14.9.

I am on 91 pump gas at the moment, I have high compression pistons (10:1) that have always been run on over 100 octane and my goal as stated in my other post is to run e85 99% of the time but I wanted to do the pump gas tune first because that was the nearest station and I know I'll need it at some point.

Am I missing something or am I just a moron? I am crazy new to this, as I've stated before, and I just want to get everything right so I can do the more advanced/fun stuff correctly.

Thanks again in advance

 

[GST with PSI]

For starters, go here and create a profile for your car. The more details you provide, the more it helps others help you without having to ask a bunch of redundant questions about what's done to your car: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/we...o-create-a-dsm-profile.499707/#post-153564173

If you want good tuning advice, you need to fill out the template below. We use the information in the template to help evaluate your tune. This format allows those willing to help you to easily verify your car is in good working order before time and effort is invested assisting you with tuning advice. You can't tune a car that's not mechanically sound.

Here's the format ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wa...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

Here's an example of how to fill it out ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/first-time-log-wisemen-just-look-away.495794/#post-153536533

Next, make sure you're capturing the correct values for the type of feedback you are seeking. See here for what values to capture ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

Do the above, and you'll receive the help you need.

 

[miliman13]

You don't have a WB logged into link.
Your TPS adjust settings are .. excessive
And the 1500 timing cell could be reduced, however that's not going to actually fix anything, as it's an effect and not a cause.

If all you did was upgrade injectors and your 100% that everything is in good shape.... Then focus on your fuel settings.

.

I installed the v3 chip and my FIC 1120 injectors with no problems.


Here is the issue I am having, my idle will not drop below 1500 rpms

Obviously you installed , with "a" problem.

 

[Brembo]

I just looked at the log and here are what my thoughts are. I am no expert but I have been running v3 for like 1 1/2 now on 1g. Some things I don't see that I am logging but it is what it is. I had similar issue when I bought the car. It didn't had any link in it. My idle was high and what fixed it was injector seals were leaking vacuum. Now you have just change injector and now the car don't want to idle well ISCPosition is at zero well in my mind it means that it is fully closed and it can't bring the idle down. With that in mind some how the air is going pass it. So I would say check for vacuum leaks first and then adjust your biss screw to bring ISCPOsiting to something higher than 15. All the infor on this things are on tuners and vfaq. I found it and it helped so try that. Also if it is 1g then Check base timing as that also plays a role in idle. On 2g you skip this step I believe. Also afratioest shows rich. I would try leaning it out a little bit with mafcomp. Just Letting you know I had to install addition on top of new stock injector oring for it to stop having boost leaks. Hold to 26psi. Other then that we need more info.

 

[Brembo]

Oh and just letting you know. I am still in calibrating stage. Not tunning. So it takes some time to get dead times right now fuel trims right and then targeting afr correctly. I can safely take my car to 6k rpm with no knock and I am hitting my target afr. So I would say it took me a while. So advance/fun stuff you can forget about for some time if you wish to keep the car running.

 

[geosok]

Hey everyone, Thanks for the comments so far. Obviously I have some work to do. I did create a profile and included everything that was told/shown to me by the previous owner and mechanic. I have had numerous conversations with the mechanic that did all the work, very cool guy, I think he was an avid member here for a while. I don't even think she 5000 miles on all the work that's been done but I will try and verify that.

I will definitely do a new log tomorrow collecting all the values shown in the link provided. As far as filling out the 14 point checklist it is going to be pretty sparse as I don't have a lot of the gear necessary to get it done but what I can tell you is that the car was running perfectly when I picked it up and drove it home. The mechanic is very thorough and made sure there were no issues, treated it like his own, honestly. I've been impressed to no end with his knowledge and willingness to help me over the phone. No vac issues, boosting exactly as I was told it would. Handles amazing. I couldn't have been happier. At that point my plan was just to do a stereo and an e85 tune because I was unaware of the v2 cable problem I was about to have.

Everything was fine until I had to get it smogged. I installed the stock ecu and injectors because i didn't have a cable for the v2 dsmlink. Drove like a little old lady until I logged enough miles to pass the test. Then, after posting some questions here, I picked up the FIC 1120 injectors so I can run e85/91 as well as snag the v3 chip and cable to get the tuning done. Originally I wanted to have an expert dyno tune for both fuels but was getting the run-around so I decided to do it myself. I went over everything multiple times to make sure I knew the basics. Install went smoothly, that's what i meant by no issues, . She fired right up and my vac numbers on the gauge didn't change. Impossible to miss the change in idle and the bouncing AFR numbers though so that's when I re-scoured all the demo vids and forum posts and then came back here looking for help again.

1). No boost, vac, or exhaust leaks.

None that I know of or can detect.

2). Verify mechanical timing.

I'll have to look into this but I was told it was spot on and it seemed perfect when driving

3). Verify base timing

I'll have to look into this but I was told it was spot on and it seemed perfect when driving

4). Ignition system

Plugs and wires all new and working great, no startup issues or bogs/stalls or misfires


5). Motor health

I'll have to get the tools for a compression test but again I had no issues making power, I haven't slammed on the car at all but it will happily get up and go without a hesitation.

6). Basic throttle body adjustments.

This is the section that I will have to really go over, but my confusion is with having the only things that changed be that I went to larger injectors and lost the v2 tune the mechanic did when I had to disconnect the battery. Everything was running great before those changes but I will see what I need in order to take care of all of this.

7). Compression ratio

10:1

8). Wiring and sensors

Wiring is great, no electrical issues I know of or have seen, new rear o2 sensor (for smog test) wide band up front working great with the gauge.

9). No DTC/CEL codes

Had a p1105 code when first installed the stock ecu and injectors, reset it and it was fine. No CEL with v3 installed.

10). Electrical system

I'll have to get a volt meter

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values

Running stock fuel pressure at 43.5 (set to 42.6 in v3) FIC 1120 Injectors, I can attach an image of the datasheet if needed.

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor

Wideband installed and calibrated by the mechanic before I got it. Not sure if the new injectors have screwed up this calibration.

13). Type of fuel

Chevron (do I have to say with Techron to not get sued?) 91, stated as 10% ethanol. Don't have a tester at this point.

14). ECMlink how-to videos

Dear god yes, multiple times, which is why I feel so damn dumb.

 

[geosok]

Some updates on my saga. First thing I did today was set the new values to snag in v3. Warmed the car up and then did a log driving around the block a couple of times and then did a second log sitting in the driveway, they are attached.

Then had a chance to sit on the phone with the mechanic who built the car. Spent an hour and a half walking me through the program and explaining things and how he had tuned the car originally. He verified everything was working in tip top shape when I bought the car and helped me with the throttle body adjustments to get the idle a lot smoother. He mentioned that with the cams I'm running a smooth idle is tough to get to but it's way better now. (I did the logs before we spoke). Like I said before, dude is an awesome mechanic, treats my car like its his.

He suggested I do a couple of short pulls from say 3-5000 rpm to see how the AFR looks as well as everything else, look into making tweaks if needed and then do longer pulls.

Once I get a better feel for the program and have the car running smoothly I'll look into the e85 path, assuming y'all agree that's a good way to go.

Thanks again

 

[91talonts1]

Just quickly breezing through the log a few things jump out immediately. First, your idle switch is not working. Second your tps adjust tab is out of this world, don't let @GST with PSI see that. It also seems as though you definitely have a vacuum leak, I say this because your idle is surging well above target with the ECU almost completely trying to close the ISC. I didn't check your fuel tab, but something is definitely up with your base fuel settings because the ecu is trying to add large amounts of fuel.

I will go over it in more detail when I get home. I would start by getting that idle switch working or simulated, the tps adjusted properly, and a boost leak test, you can't do any accurate tuning with that leak. Then post a new log.

Edit: I also don't see a wideband assigned to any ECU pins?

 

[geosok]

Thanks for taking a look. I did turn off the simulate idle switch to see if that would show any flags, especially thinking I'd need to make tweaks via the biss and cable adjuster, which is what the mechanic walked me through over the phone. I have no slop in my pedal if that means anything.

I will make that leak tester tonight or tomorrow and see if I find anything.

Could there be an issue with the fact I am only using 91 octane right now and the car has always had a c16/91 mix run with the higher compression? Should I do the mix and then tune or even just jump on the e85 train now and deal with pump gas later?

Thanks again, seriously, I appreciate it, I want to make sure everything is set up for speed and longevity.

 

[91talonts1]

No you will be able to calibrate idle and cruise just fine with pump gas.
You don't want the throttle cable to be tight to the point there's tension on it. There should probably be some slop in your pedal, mine has plenty. If you adjust it too tight it will be drawing the throttle plate open. May explain some of your idle problem, the crazy tps adj settings, and the absent idle switch.

 

[geosok]

Good to know about the pump gas, just so I know, when I switch over to e85 I will need to redo these steps in order to get it running correctly, yes?

Also, I just checked the pedal, it does have a bit of play, say a quarter inch or so, I'll look into how to check the throttle cable itself. I just followed the steps on the demo video in order to get the throttle position to read zero through link, hence the -16 number.

Better to turn on the simulate idle option at this point? Again, according to the demo video that would have the value at "1" as opposed to mine being at "0"

 

[91talonts1]

Yes the idle switch value should change to 1 when idling. It's possible the TPS being out of physical calibration is what's not letting it work. Zero those TPS adjust settings out, with the key on and the engine off, loosen the 2 screws holding the TPS and turn it until the TPSvolts value is at .63v.
You will need to adjust global and deadtime when you switch to e85, but you're way further off now than you will be switching to e85 from a gas tune. IMO there's no point in even leaving your driveway if your idle tune isn't even right yet.

 

[geosok]

thanks 91talon for all the help. Just to clarify so I can get to it tonight/tomorrow.

Uncheck or check the box for simulate idle switch? loosen the TPS screws then screw in until the voltage in link reads .63v? basically do a half turn on each screw until it reads right? biss screw turned all the way in or leave it alone for now? and, should i leave the screw/nut combo on the backside of the throttle body alone too? Those are the two items i was messing with this morning to even out the idle.

I'll be doing the vac/boost leak test tomorrow as well, snagging the parts to build it tonight and then letting the epoxy set.

I'll stop worrying about e85 for now.

 

[91talonts1]

Don't check the simulate idle switch box until you see if it starts to work on its own with proper TPS adjustment. And don't forget to zero out the adjustments you already made to the TPS in the config tab.
When you loosen the TPS it will rotate like the CAS, it doesn't screw in or out.
Loosen the jam nut on that bolt on the backside, adjust it to where it's 15/16ths of a turn past the point it begins to move the throttle lever.
The BISS can't be adjusted until you do these things, and you are 100% certain you have no vacuum leaks. Otherwise it'll never be right.
A good starting point for the BISS while getting everything else right is to bottom it out and then back it out a turn and a half, should be pretty close.

 

[geosok]

Got it, I'll get that taken care of and let you know how it goes. Thanks again

 

[91talonts1]

Getting your wideband logged should also be on your to do list for tuning, but it won't be necessary to get this idle and your cruise straightened out.

 

[Brembo]

One question. If your picture is current then your not recirculating the bov and I get it. It's the best valve and I want one too. I also bought fmic during Black Friday sale and got it flanged for tial. Anyways my research shows me that many people run too weak of a spring to get better drivability so it won't jurk a buck so I was wondering if that bov is open at idle?

 

[91talonts1]

I didn't look at your pictures, you need a bov that recirculates back to that capped off part on your intake. With the MAF before the bov venting to atmosphere creates a massive boost leak.
If you want it to stay vented you need to ditch the stock MAF and run a GM MAF after the bov, or speed density.

@Brembo if you get a spring that is rated equal to or greater than the amount of vac you pull at idle, it won't hang open. The valve hanging open at idle isnt the only boost leak concern though. Everytime it opens it will release metered air, resulting in a rich condition and driveability will without a doubt suffer.

 

[Brembo]

I just thought of bring it up because it might have been tuned for it. At idle it causes vacuum leak. It's a simple and easy thing to check. Don't need tools. I didn't open the other logs so can't comment about anything else.

 

[geosok]

Getting the wideband logged is definitely on the list, I assumed it was all good because the gauge was working in the car. I'll check the wiring tomorrow.

As for the pics, they are current. I just picked the car up a month ago and have only changed the injectors and soundproofed/deadened the interior so far. All the parts i needed for the smog have been taken back out so i dont count those.

Part of the problem is I am learning this car on the fly too so when suggestions are made I have to look up a bunch of stuff to make sure I'm on the same page. I'll look into the bov and recirculating it or the GM option.

Thanks

 

[91talonts1]

I can understand that, there's alot of info to be absorbed.

Once you have the wideband wired to the ECU you still need to go to the ECU input tab and tell it which pin you wired it to. Otherwise the ECU won't know it's there.

To elaborate on the vented bov thing; The MAF is telling the ECU how much air is entering the engine so the ECU can provide the right amount of fuel. All the air that has passed through the MAF has been compensated for by the ECU.

Now say you have an air leak after the MAF. Be that a leaking hose, coupler, gasket, or an open bov. Air that has been compensated for will now leak out under positive pressure known as a boost leak, and cause a rich condition. Air that has not been metered will also be sucked in through the leak under vacuum this can cause a lean condition and will also cause the idle to be high if it's after the throttle plate.

Having the MAF after the bov or using speed density (uses MAP) is the only way it being vented won't cause a metered air leak. Hope this helps some.

 

[geosok]

Lots of info to be absorbed for sure, can be frustrating at times but I want to learn so I'm all in and very grateful for this site and all the help. I'd be stuck with an ugly ass new car if not for places like this.

I'll double check the wiring and settings on the wideband but it makes sense now.

Your explanation of the BOV issue makes total sense now too, interesting as to why it was setup that way. Ill look at it closely tomorrow. Any recommendation (or link to a walk through for moving the maf after the bov, i'll search too, not that lazy, ) for how to deal with it before I look into speed density?

Thanks

 

[91talonts1]

Well the stock MAF can't be moved to the intercooler piping. The way it's designed it will only work by drawing air through it.
With ecmlink v3 you have 2 options, a GM MAF (no need for a translator with v3) or speed density.

To go the GM MAF route you just need the MAF itself, and the ecmlink GM MAF cable. You simply need to cut a section out of the upper IC piping large enough to fit the MAF in to and attach it with some couplers. Plug the cable up, change the MAF settings and tune.

For speed density I'll just link you to this. http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sd101

You could also just get the recirculated version of the Tial Bov and reconnect it to your intake pipe. This would probably be the simplest route. Your bov just won't be as loud.

 

[geosok]

Reading up on everything I'm definitely going to snag a recirculating BOV. Was looking at the Tial so I know it'll fit but what's the thought on either the 1" or 1.5" recirc port? And spring psi thoughts? I'm running a t28 so nothing insane at this point and won't be going bigger for a while, if ever.

 

[Brembo]

I believe you can just get the bottom part that has recycling port and leave the same spring in it. It is totally normal for bov to be slightly open during idle but as long as you don't suck unmetered air. Spring only controls the idle. During boost that bov will be closed unless your have a knock off. That's why tial is such a popular bov. I also believe it's 34mm port size is recommended for evo/dsm.