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2G Need help with no start

Posted by msisto, Aug 30, 2018

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  1. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    Joined Jun 30, 2018
    Rochester, New York
    Hi all,

    Running completely stock setup beside exhaust pipe. Been trying to diagnose and getting very frustrated. Last night, I was driving my car and I suddenly started hearing a loud clacking sound from the engine. Pulled over and checked inside. It seemed to be coming from near the cam gears, but I couldn’t pinpoint it. As I drove, it continued and increased/decreased respective of RPMs. Then I heard a whirring sound for a second before the clacking continued. Almost home and was accelerating and the car stalled. Tried to start it and it would crank, but no start after that stall.

    I checked the timing belt, but it seems snug. Did a compression test and found that each cylinder was somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-70 psi. However, the gauge I used was kind of old, so I’m wondering if it’s really accurate (even though it’s a simple device).

    Performed a spark test and found that none of my spark plugs are creating a spark. I verified my equipment was not faulty by trying on a vehicle that is working. This made me think maybe it’s a bad coil, or the ECU failed. Checked the ECU and it looks fine.

    Could it be the coil pack? What is the chance of both packs failing? Or does it fail as a unit? Still doesn’t explain the low compression, unless the equipment I used was too old to work properly.

    The picture attached shows the timing belt. I’m afraid maybe I jumped timing? But again, that doesn’t explain the coil pack. When cranking the engine, I don’t hear any sound of valves hitting, so I’m at a loss.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated...
     

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  2. mountainbike91

    mountainbike91 Proven Member

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    your timing marks in the picture are way off
     
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  3. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    You could have chewed teeth off. Are the cams turning
     
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  4. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    Rochester, New York
    Yeah, the cams turn when I crank the engine. Is it possible that I jumped timing but didn’t bend any valves?
     
  5. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    That’s what I was afraid of... But would the valves still be making noise if they were contacting the pistons?
     
  6. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

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    You need to check all mechanical timing marks for proper alignment. Put the lower crank sprocket at the appropriate mark with cylinder 1 at TDC (top dead center) and then check your cam Mark's, they should be level horizontally and even with eachother and the top of the cylinder head/valve cover mating surface.

    If not, you skipped time. You'd have to correct the timing and then perform a leakdown test to see if you got lucky and didn't bend valves. The alternative is pulling the head to check.

    If you have no spark, look into testing the coil pack and ptu, as well as general maintenance items like plug wires and plugs. Can also verify of the ecu has any track marks or leaky caps etc.
     
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  7. spyve4

    spyve4 Probationary Member

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    Second everything tametalon said. Is the tac showing that the engin is turning over. The way that it was making sounds could have been idler bearings going bad on timing belt causing it to jump timing. Check timing at tdc. If it’s off you probably bent valves unles it’s off one tooth.
     
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  8. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    I'm doubting timing. If cams are moving cas is moving. Car should have spark. Unless maybe crank angle sensor is destroyed. Either way it's dead simple to at least pull the front covers and verify. I'm assuming you are 2g from the avatar.
     
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  9. BoostedBeaver

    BoostedBeaver Moderator

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    A no spark condition and a low compression issue would seem to be separate problems. We really just need more information to properly diagnose over the inter webs.

    First, check that your mechanical timing is correct. It may take a few revolutions for this to happen. Look for the cam gear dowels to be at 12’ O’clock and the Harmonic balancer mark should be at the TDC mark.

    Second would be to make sure your compression tester is good. You can rent one from the autoparts store to verify.

    Third would be a leak down test to see where the compression is going.

    As for the no spark, you can ohm out the coils to see if they failed. You can also test for spark at the coil to eliminate the wire and plug. You can work your way back through the harness from there with a multimeter if all that pans out.
     
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  10. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

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  11. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    Rochester, New York
    Sorry, I’ve been away. Won’t be able to check the car until I get back.

    @pauleyman Yes, 2g. I actually just replaced the Crank Angle Sensor. When I did that though, I did it without removing the timing belt. I loosened the tension, without removing the auto tensioner, and then tried to tension it back up. I know this is probably a big no-no, and in the future I suppose I’ll just do the timing belt, too. However, it seemed to have adequate tension. Only when I rotated the crank to a certain spot would there be some slack between the cam gears that made me wonder; the rest of the rotation produced nice tension between the cams. I had been driving after this for a little while with no problems, so I’m confused why it would just suddenly cause a problem. Were you able to see the picture I posted with the current state of the timing marks?

    @tametalon92 and @BoostedBeaver I’ll try to do these things when I get back. Won’t be for a couple days. I just find it odd that either all wires or the entire coil pack assembly failed.

    Maybe it’s the Camshaft Position Sensor? I know when I forgot to plug that in once, I got a crank but no-start condition.
     
  12. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    Joined Jun 30, 2018
    Rochester, New York
    Okay, update for those who are still interested.

    I took the timing cover off yesterday and found that the trigger plate had caught the CPS and broke part of it off. It didn’t get annihilated, but it is broken. My thought is that someone previously bent it a bit when changing the balance belt. When I changed the CPS last time, I didn’t notice a bend in the trigger plate and had no cause for concern as the other CPS was just malfunctioning, not broken.

    However, I’ve been reading on other threads that an imperceptible bend in the trigger plate may cause it to catch if there is enough engine vibration to cause it to catch. I say all this because I don’t think that it’s crankwalk. I am not exhibiting any of the other symptoms of CW, like the clutch pedal sticking, etc.

    I checked the timing, and the marks line up with the head, except... I think they are 180* off. The timing mark BETWEEN the teeth on one sprocket lines up with the timing mark ON a tooth on the other cam sprocket. Is this acceptable, or does it need to be the timing mark on the teeth that line up with one another? Confused as to why there are four marks total...

    So in sum, the CPS is broken (giving me no spark), so I’ll swap that out as well as a new trigger plate. Also going to change the balance belt since I’m there. I know the timing belt is brand new from the previous owner so I’ll leave that alone. And I’ll make sure the timing is 100% correct.

    Any other thoughts?
     
  13. msisto

    msisto Probationary Member

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    I replaced the cranks sensor and balance belt, and redid all of the timing. The car runs beautifully now. Not sure about gas mileage yet, as I’ll need to keep track, but I’m thinking it’ll improve.
     

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