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My Custom 2G Drag Race/Street HD brake setup.

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twicks69

Supporting Vendor
4,196
1,642
Mar 12, 2004
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hey all, Just thought I would post up some pictures of my new brakes that I put together for the front and rear of the Eclipse!

I put together this brake combination to help with unsprung weight as well as increasing braking capacity in a street/drag strip application. This setup should easily handle street driving, and stop easily from 150+mph at the track without a parachute. These brakes are not meant for road race or autocross use -- I would recommend a beefier brake setup for that. As well, these were designed to easily clear a 16" aftermarket wheel.

The rear is a Wilwood 4-piston Dynapro caliper with a 11.75"x0.81" vented/scalloped/drilled rotors and custom hats/brackets with Wilwood E-Pads and stainless lines. Wilwood fasteners and safety wired.

The front is a Wilwood 4-piston Forged Superlite caliper with 12.2"x0.81" vented/scalloped/drilled rotors, Wilwood hats, modified TCE brackets, with Wilwood E-Pads and stainless lines. Wilwood fasteners and safety wired.

The rear will be getting a hydraulic staging brake instead of the stock E-brake assembly.

The front rotor setup required quite a bit of spindle grinding, modified TCE bracketry, and extended wheel studs to run with this rotor/hat combination. The old combination utilized a 12.2"x0.81 directionally vaned Wilwood GT rotor that had a 8x7.62" bolt pattern and did not require spindle modification. Now it is a 8x7" pattern and really required clearancing with a die grinder and a carbide bit for cutting steel, as well as modification/removal of the OEM wheel speed sensors.

Overall, it should provide a substantial improvement over the stock rear brake setup that was still on the car (with just EBC green pads), while providing a lighter brake package, lowered inertia and reduced unsprung weight.

The rear hubs being used are DSS Stage 5x axles/hubs with ARP studs, and the front are OEM hubs which will be receiving ARP extended wheel studs.

The ABS sensors will be fully removed from all spindles as it simply cannot keep up with the braking capacity of this setup.

The front and rear brake hardware was also safety wired and blue loctite.

I will post up some weight comparison stuff on the rears, as well as a bit more on the aftermarket fronts I was running (12.2"x0.81" Wilwood GT directionally vaned rotors with Coleman custom hats).

The old directionally vaned Wilwood GT rotors were 9.5#, the hats were 2#, and the hardware was another ~1#. The new front rotors weigh 5.5#, the hats are around the same weight and the hardware is around the same. Overall, around a 4.0#-4.5# per front corner reduction in mass by quick estimation. I will get further actual weights when I get a better scale.

The rear brakes are substantially beefier than stock and are lighter than stock by several pounds per corner. The rotors weigh 4.9#. I will get additional weights on the rest of the components soon for comparison.

Here's some pictures of both the front and rear installed on the car (mocked/final fitment). Please ignore the messy garage and the 7-bolt motor!


Enjoy!
 

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that's a beatifull setup. do you think they would fit inside a 15'' wheel? My slicks are on a set of custom Al 15'' weld drag wheels (65 mustang center and had them weld the backspacing differently)

but anyway, that's what's kept my brake upgrades atbay so long being on a GS-T, and i can out accelerate the braking capabilities of the stock setup so easily on the street in a few pulls that it scares me

Also, how much would say just the front setup cost not including extended lugs and any labor as i'd do that myself
 
Glenn, the rears should clear a 15" wheel as they are 11.75" diameter with a narrow caliper.

The fronts would not clear a 15" wheel as they are a 12.2" with a larger caliper. As for pricing of what I have into it; not sure yet -- the fronts were based upon an old TCE kit from around 10 years back (brackets). The rotors and hats for the front were around $200 per corner, and the forged superlite calipers are ~200 per corner. The pads are dependent on which material you use. The lines are Goodrich steel lines. Brackets were modified TCE's, grade 8.8 hardware, wilwood 5/16" drilled fasteners, safety wire, etc. I am guessing ballpark around $1200 for the fronts. The rears were a better price than anything else on the market currently, and were the main reason of going this route -- they are a complete replacement setup without requiring spindle modifications while clearing a 15" or 16" wheel and are lighter than stock with greater braking force.
 
don't forget to throw some hub centric ring in there for those brake rotors. friend of mine went through 4 front wheel bearings on his car before he figured out that it was the rotor causing the vibration in the front end. he is running Willwood Forged Superlite 4 pistons with 12 X 1.25's on all four corners, the rotor kept sliding off to one side and was making that wheel out of balance.
 
I ran rings for a few years, and several years without with no ill effects. I just make sure that the rotors are centered when fastened. The rears aren't going anywhere as the ID of the rotor hat matches my wheel bearings being used, while the fronts are utilizing a wheel stud bolt hole with no slop.

I am looking for a better rotor hat than the one I currently am running to free up a bit more weight as well as have it a perfect fit. It will likely be a one-off from blanks. I am doing some research to find an alternative front rotor hat that can utilize a scalloped rotor that I can then machine to fit our application.
 
Well, the front and rear brakes are installed and completed.

Here are the weight differences below:

Rear brakes unsprung rotating mass changed:
Old = 9#7oz (10.3" solid rotor)
New= 7#3oz (11.75" vented scalloped drilled rotor and hat, safety wire and hardware)
Old lugnuts = 1#9oz per corner (gorilla lugs 35mm)
New lugnuts = 10oz per corner (Muteki 48mm lugs)
_____________________________
Difference is 3#3oz per rear corner, resulting in a decrease of 6#6oz of unsprung rotating mass changed with brake rotor upgrade and lugnut swap.

Rear brakes unsprung mass changed:
Old = 21#2oz (ebrake pads, spacer, bracket, caliper, pads, speed sensor, hardware removed)
New = 5#2oz (bracket, caliper, pads)
____________________________
Difference is 16# per corner, resulting in a decrease of 32# of unsprung mass changed with brake caliper/pad upgrade

Front brakes unsprung rotating mass changed:
Old = 12#2oz (wilwood 12.2"x0.81" vented directional vane rotor on Coleman hat with light hardware, gorilla lugs)
New = 7#0oz (new 12.2"x0.81" scalloped/vented/drilled rotor on custom machined wilwood hat with stainless hardware and stainless safety wire, muteki lugs)
____________________________
Difference is 5#2oz per corner, resulting in a decrease of 10#4oz of unsprung rotating mass changed with rotor/hat upgrade

Sprung mass changed:
Old subframe bushings, rear diff bushings, rear suspension bushings, swaybar and hardware removed, difference in weight between hydraulic staging brake and e-brake cables = approximately 25# removed.


Rear moment of inertia (MOI) difference (rotors only)=
Old = 119 lb-in^2
New = 124 lb-in^2
_________________________
Increase of 5 lb-in^2 MOI for an increase of rear rotor diameter from 10.25"x0.35" to 11.75"x0.81" with a weight reduction of 1#13oz per corner.

Front moment of inertia (MOI) difference (rotors only)=
Old = 201.2 lb-in^2
New = 130.2 lb -in^2
_________________________
Decrease of 71 lb-in^2 MOI from same rotor diameter with a weight reduction of 3#13oz per corner. Changed from Wilwood vented directionally vaned GT-36 12.2"x0.81" rotors to custom vented/scalloped/drilled 12.2"x0.81" rotors.

Overall MOI reduction from all 4 rotors alone = 132 lb-in^2 reduction.

Overall MOI reduction with rotors/lugs differences =
Front---
Old = 237.21 lb-in^2 per corner
New = 141.86 lb-in^2 per corner

Rear---
Old = 138.72 lb-in^2 per corner
New= 134.83 lb-in^2 per corner

Overall MOI reduction from all 4 rotors and lugnut change =
Front rotors = 190.7 lb-in^2
Rear rotors = 7.8 lb-in^2
Total Reduction of MOI = 198.5 lb-in^2

Final unsprung rotating mass removed = 16#10oz
Final unsprung mass removed = 32#
Final sprung mass removed = 25#

It is difficult to use an exact ratio to see the benefits of unsprung rotational vs. unsprung vs. sprung mass due to the numerous variables present.

Most numbers I have seen out there approximate 1 pound of unsprung rotating mass equalling 10 pounds of sprung mass, 1 pound of unsprung mass equalling 4 pounds of sprung mass, and 1 pound of sprung mass equalling 1 pound of overall mass.

In this scenario, using these approximated mass conversions, the unsprung rotating mass would be equal 166 pounds of overall mass removed, the unsprung mass would be equal to 128 pounds of overall mass, and 25 pounds of sprung mass would be equal to 25 pounds. Thus resulting in an approximate reduction of overall effective mass of ~319 pounds from approx 74 pounds of actual weight removed from upgrading the front and rear brakes to better/lighter components while keeping a very streetble brake setup. Hopefully, it is actually worth ~0.25 seconds of time taken off my 1/4 mile time.

Mind you, my calculations may be wrong, as I am an environmental geologist not a mechanical engineer. I used MOI calculations for a solid cylinder on a symmetrical axis, and Newton's 2nd law of rotation.
 
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I have also been doing a bit of other weight reduction to the car including a new 2G fuel cell from Andrew Kisner (Frontline Fabrications) Frontline Fabrication

The OEM fuel tank, pickup assembly, and sheet metal outer liner weigh in at 45 pounds and has a ~17 gallon capacity resulting in a fuel weight of ~112 pounds when full, using a generic average weight of 6.6 pounds per gallon for gasoline (normally, it ranges from 5.8-6.8 pounds depending on blends at a base temp of 72 degrees F and it would increase in weight when it is below 72 degrees due to increased vapor density, and decrease in weight when it is above 72 degrees due to increased volatilization and vapor pressure, and lower density.) This total weight would result in ~157 pounds of fuel and fuel tank with the stock AWD fuel tank from 1995-1999.

This tank is ~10-10.5 gallons capacity, weighs in at 14.5 pounds, and would have a fuel weight of ~66 pounds, and a total weight of ~80 pounds.

Weight reduction of ~80 pounds.

Also, did some work on the inside of the car last night by removing 26 pounds of unused stuff including:
*Ebrake handle/cables/bracketry
*Glovebox, and bracketry (opens up alot of legroom for passengers)
*Gutted the passenger side airbag while retaining all of its structure (no more bag, gas cylinder, but left the sheet metal structure and rectangular metal shell of the bag itself for rigidity)
*Removed excess wires from center console (airbag wires, HVAC wires, E-brake wires)
*Gutted HVAC controls (left all knobs, removed all cables, wasted structure, wires and cables)

I am still running full OEM power leather seats, stock airbag leather steering wheel, OEM head unit with amp and all front speakers (6x9 rears removed), etc. ALOT of weight can still be removed. Likely an easy 100# or more with a nice lightweight seat, steering wheel, etc. For now, it stays.


So, that brings the weight loss tally up to the following stats for this round of mods:

Final unsprung rotating mass removed = 16#10oz - (x10) = 166 pounds
Final unsprung mass removed = 32# - (x4) = 128 pounds
Final sprung mass removed (brakes, fuel, interior) = 25#+80#+26 = 131 (x1)

Overall mass removed: 180 pounds removed
Overall effective acceleration mass removed: 425 pounds removed
 
Not bad. Looks very nice. So I take it you got the car all back together?

Almost ready. Just have to finish up the fuel plumbing, mount the rear end and subframe, install the rear suspension one more time, a bit of wiring, fluids, driveshaft and transfer case.

It will be running for the rest of the year on a stock driveshaft and transfer case, and I will make a better unit later this fall.
 
I am still running full OEM power leather seats, stock airbag leather steering wheel, OEM head unit with amp and all front speakers (6x9 rears removed), etc. ALOT of weight can still be removed. Likely an easy 100# or more with a nice lightweight seat, steering wheel, etc. For now, it stays.

Nice work! I have these, they are light but the frame probably weighs 8-10lbs.

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http://www.corbeau.com/product_images/fx1_pro/black_cloth/FX1Wide-L.gif

I have also been doing a bit of other weight reduction to the car including a new 2G fuel cell from Andrew Kisner (Frontline Fabrications) Frontline Fabrication

The OEM fuel tank, pickup assembly, and sheet metal outer liner weigh in at 45 pounds and has a ~17 gallon capacity resulting in a fuel weight of ~112 pounds when full, using a generic average weight of 6.6 pounds per gallon for gasoline (normally, it ranges from 5.8-6.8 pounds depending on blends at a base temp of 72 degrees F and it would increase in weight when it is below 72 degrees due to increased vapor density, and decrease in weight when it is above 72 degrees due to increased volatilization and vapor pressure, and lower density.) This total weight would result in ~157 pounds of fuel and fuel tank with the stock AWD fuel tank from 1995-1999.

This tank is ~10-10.5 gallons capacity, weighs in at 14.5 pounds, and would have a fuel weight of ~66 pounds, and a total weight of ~80 pounds.

Weight reduction of ~80 pounds.

I had a feeling that tank had something to do with your car. I created a thread here - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/378911-frontline-fabrication-2g-dsm-bolt-fuel-cell.html waiting for some pics from Andrew.
 
I will be taking the cell out of the car again for final installation, and can shoot some pics when I have it out.
 
Everything looks good Tim, I need something that will fit inside my 15's as well though.

I would like to see pics of the cell installed too if you have them?
 
The rear brakes above will fit a 15" wheel as they are 11.75" diameter.

I will take some pictures of the fuel cell later tonight when I get time to work on the car.
 
I could do up the front kit to accept a 15" wheel as well. In fact it could be done with the smaller DynaPro lug mount or Narrow Mount caliper rather than the shown FSL. Save some more weight still....But durability comes into play at some point also. For a dedicated drag car it would be ok to work with.

The other option is the factory Wilwood kit that comes with a 12.2 rotor...sub in a 11.75 and rework/fab new brackets and it too would be a 15" wheel option.
 
I could do up the front kit to accept a 15" wheel as well. In fact it could be done with the smaller DynaPro lug mount or Narrow Mount caliper rather than the shown FSL. Save some more weight still....But durability comes into play at some point also. For a dedicated drag car it would be ok to work with.

The other option is the factory Wilwood kit that comes with a 12.2 rotor...sub in a 11.75 and rework/fab new brackets and it too would be a 15" wheel option.

Todd, thanks for stepping in! You input is always appreciated as you are the one with the most experience in this field!

With the Wilwood bolt-on kit, does it come with 8x7" rotor hats or with an 8x7.62" hat? If it is an 8x7" hat, how is wilwood clearing the front spindle without grindwork? Are the using a shallow offset rotor with Dynapro calipers?
 
First I have to compliment you on a great package thus far and I hope it proves as functional for you as it has from the engineering side. I remain a bit skeptical on the scalloped rotor use for most folks and a street app but you understand this well so I'm certain you're safe.

The factory kit is all 8 on 7.00bc work but is a radial mound DynaPro caliper. The good news is that it can be reworked to function as a 11.75 kit also. The bad news is that to do so we'd need to all but replace the radial mount bracket....not a cost effective option really.

Wilwood High Performance Disc Brakes - Front Brake Kit Product Number: 140-8292

Thus really to do this effectively (although at an initially higher buy in cost) the only way is with the TCE version and the "Narrow Mount DynaPro" caliper- effectively a hybrid FSL/DL caliper formerly know as the NDL.

As many know, I've always tried to mount my brackets to the inboard side of the spindle ears and that's been an issue with the fit. The reason was always caliper to wheel clearance. When bracketed to the outboard side the hat offset will prove much less but the caliper overhang far greater perhaps requiring wheel spacers for most. The NMDP caliper "might" over come that being a narrower body and fit to only a .810 rotor for drag use. The Wilwood factory kit overcomes this problem by way of the radial brackets.....I can do that too but the value of a $900 kit is out the window with $300 in new brackets taking us right back to one of my own kits.

*hoping you followed that! :boring:
 
Yup, understood!

Yeah, I like the caliper bracket mounted on the inboard side of the spindle with just a simple hardened M14 washer to act as a spacer between the spindle and the bracket. I am also using M14x1.5mm x25mm fasteners to attach the 3/8" steel brackets to the spindle with a Nordlock washer on the outside. If safety was a concern on top of a Nordlock washer, you could always have the M14 fasteners drilled for safety wire. To run the new front bracketry, I did have to tap the spindle caliper bracket bolt holes with a M14x1.5mm tap (you do not have to drill it any larger, just tap it), and quite a bit of grinding to the spindle itself while removing the wheel speed sensors as ABS is just out of the window anyways with a brake setup like this. Here are some pictures to give you an idea of the grinding required to clear the rotor fasteners and safety wire on the backside of the brake rotor for the front brake setup.

I also did a bit more machinework to the front rotor hats to get them to the specifications that I liked.

I am going to make a few adjustments down the road with this kit and may be selling it if anyone is interested. There are alot of parts that also can be used on the Evo 4-8 with minimal modification.
 

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I really need to do something this winter, its getting a little harry slowing my car down from 150mph now with stock brakes!!

Plus I want to save more weight :)

Why does every upgrade I want to do cost 1k or more now. ROFL
 
So far, with 40 miles of street duty and 1 track day, the car has absolutely no problems stopping at 1/4 to 1/2 braking capacity. They were pretty smooth for drilled rotors, and I am happy with them!
 
I really need to do something this winter, its getting a little harry slowing my car down from 150mph now with stock brakes!!

Plus I want to save more weight :)

Why does every upgrade I want to do cost 1k or more now. ROFL

Man, I feel ya. I'd kill to have some GSX brakes, but i don't think i can squeeze them under the 15'' Weld draglite fronts wheels. I had to grind some of the bracket on the GS-T. :( It's pretty bad when you cna boil over your brakes with a few 2nd gear test pulls *shakes head in disgust* LOL

And just when i saw this and thought "WOW, there's exactly what i've been dreaming of" I had to ask how much it would cost to do the same and realized it just aint happenin (at least not till after i get my back operated on and then hopefully get back to work within about 7 months)
 
Tellin'ya: it's $100 a pound when you get serious about it~!
 
Tellin'ya: it's $100 a pound when you get serious about it~!

yea, that sounds about right...maybe iill stumble upon a used "lightened" set LOL

For now, fresh GS-T rotors and some good porterfield pads + a prayer everytime i let off from WOT is all i have to get me by LOL
 
Get some Kosie K1's they clear my stock AWD brakes just fine!
 
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