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My 2.4 Build for my '97 Talon

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Repost of track results to keep thread up to date: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/448776-2-4-s256-track-results.html

The title should probably be "result," but more on that later.

I finally got the old bird down the track on E85. It has been running well for a while now after getting it back together so I wanted to go make some shakedown runs on Saturday and see where it was at before turning it up.

The whole build thread is here which has all the details: 2.4 Auto Build

I have been doing some back road pulls and everything looked good, AFRs were spot on at around 24psi so I thought that would be a good starting point for the track night.

With 3/4 tank of gas the car with me in it was 3650lbs on the scale. I have done absolutely no weight reduction and I left the spare, small tool kit, gallon of washer fluid in it to keep its true street weight.

The original goal was to keep power everything, AC, ect. and have a true 11.5s street car. My wife primarily drives the car so it couldn't have any driveability issues.

The weather was great on Saturday in the 70s, but it was a little windy. A friend came down to the track to spectate and it looked like it would be a great night. Turnout was pretty good.

I left it set at 24psi for the first pass. Prior to the first pass I was explaining to my friend that I would make a couple passes lifting after the 1/8 to see how it felt and just in case it was under 11.5.

Unfortunately my first opponent was a bright orange Mustang. I didn't start the stall until fully staged so it took a few seconds and I wanted to do a pretty soft first launch. As soon as I saw it pass 3500 I let it go and it felt decent but nothing great. It felt like it was pulling pretty good but my butt dyno didn't think it was going to be a spectacular run, probably low 12/high 11.

Despite the ~3s head start I was pulling on the Mustang hard and for whatever reason I just couldn't lift (bloodlust?). I wasn't sure where the run ended mph wise but I was at about 8000rpm in 3rd through the traps.

I came around to get my slip and a rather stern looking lady gave me a dirty look and said you need to go to tech...great.

Looked at the slip and it was 11.300 @ 121.52!

Entire Slip:
60' ET: 1.730
1/8: 7.308 @ 97.96
1/4: 11.300 @ 121.52

Fantastic!, but way to blow my wad on the first shot. I drove back to tech to get my warning and while filling out the form I saw my wife and buddy come walking up laughing. My wife said to my friend as soon as she saw the Mustang "ut-oh, he's not going to be able to lift.."

Average boost for the run was 24.5psi and pretty stable. I turned the boost down to around 20psi and was going to make a few more passes to tease the 11.50 line and work on the 60' but someone blew a transmission shortly thereafter and made a big mess so we decided to pack it in for the night and go have diner.

Attached is a log and pic of the slip. For some reason it was lean the whole run and fuel pressure was a bit erratic. I haven't seen this in my testing and I went back out yesterday to make some pulls and everything looked good. Also, there was about 1* of persistent knock in 3rd gear. The ramp rate is pretty aggressive starting at 5500rpm so I backed it down a bit in this area and its gone, but the timing is still pretty conservative.

It spun a little out of the hole, I was surprised the 60' was 1.7. The 6-year old Advans aren't very sticky when cold and I left the pressure at 32F/29R.

Despite all the headaches I couldn't be happier with how this has come together. I really wanted to try this combo and IMHO it makes a great street car. I thought the BEP .55 housing would be choking the 2.4 but it was pulling hard all the way to 8000rpm and boost really isn't dropping off. For now I am using the stock shift points (7000rpm) so there may be some gains from running it out a little more before shifting. It's moving for a big heavy pig.

Feel free to poke through the log, any advice is appreciated.

If the weather holds out I will take it back out on Friday and make some lower boost passes before going for the end of season glory run...
 
This is pretty long over due for an update as some things have changed:

FP Black Install / First Impressions

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/471748-fp-jb-black-install-first-impressions.html

FP Black Testing / Videos

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/472338-launch-flyby-spool-fp-jb-black-videos.html

So far the FP Black has been fantastic.

I have some projects planned over the winter, one of which I hope will be the Kiggly MIVEC conversion and I will probably o-ring the head while it is apart. I pushed another PermaTorque MLS and replaced it with a OEM 4G64 (88mm) gasket and it has been rock solid even at higher boost on the Black. I think the primary issue was having the gasket in the combustion space. I also relaxed mid-range timing from 4k-6k quite a bit.

Now, like most everyone else, I will work on it some more over the winter and wait impatiently for the track to open.
 
Awesome build, very clean!!

How is the Black as far as street-ability? How is the spool? The car sounds like a monster in your videos.

Thanks! :thumb:

With the 2.4, ~10:1, and E85 I would say it is very streetable. You don't want to get caught in a stoplight race at idle in an auto though! ROFL

The two spool videos in the links above show how the power comes on pretty well. It hits very hard rolling in 1st almost like there is no lag. I don't know how it would feel in a manual car as the spool can be decieving with an auto.

This converter achieves full lockup at about 5500rpm under full power and will brake-stall to 3800-4200rpm.

I am going to try some changes in the tune to improve spool time on the brake and am refining my fuel/timing maps a bit.

One issue that popped up with the Black was compressor surge on high load short shifts. The spring in my BOV was too strong so I cut it down a coil and tested the opening vacuum to 11" instead of 17", which helped a lot, but I could still get it to surge on short shifts with decreasing throttle input so I cut it down another 1/2 to 3/4 coil and tested it and it cracks open at 7.5". I will test this sometime this week to see if it solved the problem.

I have been collecting transmissions and will be building a new one over the winter. The gears are being shot peened and WPC treated this time to try to extend the gear life. I broke another set of gears a few months ago, but I think this time it was partially due to the welded diff and a lot of slow hard turns (e.g. parking garage) with everything binding. Thankfully it didn't damage the case and I was able to swap a spare set of gears I had in while the trans was in the car. I have been running a stock 2-spider center and VCU since then.
 
Quick update on the FP Black / Turbosmart WG: Boost control was good, but oscillated a bit (about 1 psi), but shortly after installing it the gate started to leak at idle out the dump tube. I pulled it and could see where it wasn't sealing on the seat so I sent it back in.

I just got off the phone with the tech and while he said he hadn't seen that issue before, he checked the valve and it is good and will send it back with a new seat.

I told him about the boost control issue and told him I ordered a couple extra springs to set the base boost higher but one of the springs appeared to not lock into the upper cap. I ordered the right part number but it was too big to fit in the right groove but was too small for the bigger groove.

He said: what boost do you want I'll throw new springs in it and send it back...I told him 25psi and he put new springs in it and they all lock in how they should. Sending a new set of three springs sure was generous. Marty was the tech's name and a real nice guy to talk to. I haven't dealt with TiAL's customer service, but I will definitely consider Turbosmart in the future given this experience.

Could the mis-matched upper seat on the other spring explain some of the oscillation I was seeing or is something else the culprit? Boost is controlled with the IR solenoid and Link in a 2 port setup. Once it gets back here I will see if the new springs and seat fix the issue.
 
What was wastegate spring pressure and what was boost at when it was oscillating?

I've never dealt with Turbo Smart but I've had a similar experience with Tial, they sent the incorrect spring and after 2 years I checked it because of boost control issues and they sent the one I ordered for free. It feels good when a big vendor takes care of you when they don't have to.

:dsm:
 
I combined some parts from a new TransGo shift kit with the existing TransLab modifications to try and fix this.
This really makes me excited. The idea of combining those 2 brands really make me curious. Can you tell me which parts you use from each brands? Thanks!
 
This really makes me excited. The idea of combining those 2 brands really make me curious. Can you tell me which parts you use from each brands? Thanks!
Fyi the last comment on this thread is almost 9 years old. It looks like the member you are replying to hasn't been online here in about a month and a half. Maybe he will come around again soon though.
 
Fyi the last comment on this thread is almost 9 years old. It looks like the member you are replying to hasn't been online here in about a month and a half. Maybe he will come around again soon though.
Yeah hopefully.. Because after a lot of searching, the only person i know to combining Translab & Transgo in F4A33 is this thread owner. I really need some informations :idontknow:
 
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