My 2.4 Build for my '97 Talon

[VETDRMS]

rx7ttlm Yes, the intake is a little undersized for this motor but I wanted to try this combo out before moving up. I think it will be a pretty killer street setup as a daily driver, but we'll see...

I picked up the cams from the machine shop and when I got there I noticed there was an Evo MIVEC cam sitting with the box. They tapped it to match these, which use a 12mm bolt instead of the 8mm bolt the late 2g uses! ?

The few options were to try and plug and re-tap the end of the cam or drill out the trigger cup and use a 12mm bolt. I decided to not mess with the cam anymore for fear it would get messed up further. The only thing that would fit in the trigger cup was a 12mm cap screw so I picked up a grade 12.9 12x1.25x35 cap screw and went back to the machine shop to have the trigger cup opened up. Hopefully this works and being bored out to 12 mm doesn't weaken the cam too much. I plan to torque the bolt to whatever the Evo spec is and use a healthy amount of red Loctite.

I started on the install and first checked to make sure the cam spun freely in the bores and I never noticed how far off center the cam lobes are in relation to the valves on these heads. Why are they like this? They start pretty on center on the #1 cylinder but get further and further off center the farther down the cam you go.

On cylinder #4 the lobe is very close to the cap and the valve centerline is nearly on the outsize edge of the lobe. Is this normal?

Other than that, does anyone know how to get the BLE solid lifters set for zero lash when degreeing the cams? The lock nut sits flush down in the hole so it isn't possible to lock it down.

Also, what are you guys using to space the degree wheel out from the crank?

Thanks!

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Mine are not nearly that close. And what did you use on those cams to lube them? Whats red?

 

[VETDRMS]

VETTE 50TH Do you have a picture of yours installed? The stock motor I have here has the same offset but it isn't quite as close. The red stuff is Permatex cam assembly lube, very sticky stuff.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

VETTE 50TH Do you have a picture of yours installed? The stock motor I have here has the same offset but it isn't quite as close. The red stuff is Permatex cam assembly lube, very sticky stuff.

Oh ok. I just used assembly moly lube. Just wondering if it was red loctite on your cam cap bolts . I dont but i can get one for you. Which cylinder is in question?

 

[VETDRMS]

It is cylinder #4, thanks.

 

[VETDRMS]

Greg Thanks for posting those pics, I have no idea why they are set up this way. I guess if it clears, it clears.

General Update: I got the cams degreed in. I used a spare trigger plate modified to mount to the head to use as a dial indicator base. It actually worked surprisingly well and I had no issues with it. It looks a little funky but it works.

I was unable to find a dial indicator extension locally so I went to the hardware store and bought a 3/32" brass rod which fit the dial indicator perfectly. I also ordered an extension from Summit for next time.

To attach the degree wheel to the crank I got a 14mmx1.5x120mm bolt and a 14mmx1.5 die and threaded the entire bolt. I used jam nuts to secure the wheel and the bolt to the crank.

Here is the entire setup ready to go:

I had a bit of an issue with checking valve timing the first time as I had some lash. The only thing I could set with lash in the system was the cam centerline. I marked the cam gears 1/2 tooth off to account for the additional 6mm of deck height of the 4G64 and installed the belt with the modified marks lined up.

I re-did everything the next day and set zero lash by adjusting the BLE solid lifters, installing the rocker arm, cam, and two camp caps and made sure I could not fit a .001" feeler gauge and confirmed that the roller turned with no force on the cam. It was trial and error to make sure the valve was not opening off the base circle but after a little while I got them both set as close to true zero lash as possible.

Once that was done I could accurately measure the valve open and close events and compare them to the cam card.

Here is the cam card again for reference:

Here is the valve timing per my measurements:

Intake:

• Opens: 8* BTDC
• Closes: 44.5* ABDC
• Max Lift: 0.454"
• Centerline: 106.875 @ +/- 0.050" from peak lift
• Duration @ 0.040": 232.5*
• Duration @ 0.005": 263*
• Duration @ 0.000": 273.5* (seat-to-seat)

Exhaust:

• Opens: 50.5* BBDC
• Closes: 2* ATDC
• Max Lift: 0.451"
• Centerline: 112.75 @ +/- 0.050" from peak lift
• Duration @ 0.040": 232.5*
• Duration @ 0.005": 263*
• Duration @ 0.000": 273.5* (seat-to-seat)

So, the duration @ 0.040" appears to be about 3* less than advertised. The intake cam opens 3* late but closes when it is supposed to and the exhaust cam opens when it is supposed to but closes 3* early.

I am used to the advertised duration being measured at 0.005" for the domestic cams I have degreed, but it looks like GSC uses true seat-to-seat duration for their advertised duration.

On my setup the exhaust cam needed to be advanced 3* to be on the correct centerline and the intake cam was right on straight up.

Here is how the cams look dialed in at true TDC:

I would have had the motor pretty much finished by now but I found this little gem when inspecting my set of Evo rocker arms.

I found one other rocker that had a small pit on the roller so I am swapping them out with a couple good ones tomorrow morning and I should have everything together by the weekend.

I also picked up some other goods last week:

I got a case of the SAE 30w for break-in and a couple cases of the 20w50 that I plan to run when the motor is broken in. I will probably run regular Valvoline or similar dyno oil until it has about 500-1000 miles on it. I also use the 20w50 in my solid roller 11:1 406ci SBC. It will be getting the lifters rebuilt before spring as well as some other maintenance once the Talon is "done."

 

[mysticj]

Looks good, the cam gears timing marks look correct. I just finish install DeltaCam 272/264 over the weekend.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

So, why did you go with adjustables instead of 4g64 cam gears?

 

[VETDRMS]

Vette_50_th To account for any slight differences from a stock deck height 4G64 in addition to the amount of material taken off the head. Also to tune the powerband on a dyno once everything is broke in. I may want to move the powerband up/down. Plus they will look pretty slick under the clear cover.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Gotcha. Just was wondering why you love to make things hard...cam gears, solid lifters

 

[VETDRMS]

I don't mind if things are hard (for me at least) as long as I am comfortable with the end result. The solid lifters are just used to degree the cams. Without making your own or collapsing/shimming a hydraulic lifter you can't accurately degree the cams. There is no way I would want to run solid lifters on these motors. They would just be a huge pain to adjust. I don't mind setting lash on my small block every so often, plus I love the clatter of solid lifters on a V8.

With the adjustable gears I can also reduce the overlap for a better idle/better driveability. Afterall, this will be a daily driver so for that duty I don't mind a little compromise. Once I know where it makes the most power I can always advance/retard the cams to get back to this level.

 

[racker]

ufff excelent proyect.

 

[bsbllfit7]

i love my 2.4l build. I was dumb and went with an evo 3 right off the bat though. Im not going as big as you but ive got the fp green im throwing on next week!

 

[VETDRMS]

Thanks guys, I'm looking forward to the 2.4 as a daily driver.

I sent the throttle body off to Steve at throttlebodys.com, who did a great job and had a very fast turnaround. I had the "uber" seals installed that are tested to 40+psi. The sensors also checked out good. He also machined out a minor scrape in the inlet area. There shouldn't be any leaks...

I also got the cams installed. The paper clip method worked great to pump all the packing oil out of the new lifters and everything got a good coat of assembly lube. I also installed the studs for the valve cover. I ordered the Moroso oil pan stud kit for this. I picked up an Evo 12mm CAS bolt and torqued it to 22ft/lbs with some red Loctite to try to keep it in place. The cam was incorrectly drilled for the Evo bolt so I had to have the CAS trigger drilled to fit the larger bolt.

I think I mentioned this before, but why on earth do the cam lobes get progressively closer to the cam caps as you go down the cylinders? By the time you get to the end of the cam part of the roller on the rocker arm isn't even on the lobe!

The motor primed very fast and had oil in the head in less than 30 seconds. With the drill on low speed it had a constant 50 psi of oil pressure, and about 70 psi on high speed. I noticed the gear felt "notchy" after priming it but once it sat for a while it went away. I could turn the gear very slowly and watch it push oil out of the lifters, so I think I was just feeling back pressure right after priming it.

I spent way too much time trying to get the hydraulic tensioner adjusted just where I wanted it. I didn't have a beam type inch-lb torque wrench so I couldn't measure the torque applied to the belt. I instead relied on the amount of protrusion from the hydraulic tensioner.

After setting the tension and rotating it, it would start out too far extended and slowly go back into the tensioner over the 15 minutes checking period. I had expected the opposite as the belt "stretched". Is this normal? Even after 15 minutes the amount of protrusion would continue decreasing.

Here is where I finally ended up. After setting belt tension and rotating the crank 2 times the tensioner was protruding 0.1700". After 15 minutes it was protruding 0.1500" and the grenade pin could be inserted but the pin was obviously at the top of the amount of protrusion that would allow the pin to be inserted (the grenade pin rests on the top edge of the hole in the housing and the bottom edge tensioner plunger).

After the 15 minutes it continued to go down a bit but not much. Could this have anything to do with the cams I am running? There is no place in the rotation where there feels like there is any slack on the belt, and there is a lot of overlap so it is even tight at TDC. I just want to make sure this isn't set up too tight to try and keep the oil pump alive.

If I turn the motor over another 2 rotations the pin will re-extend the initial set height and decrease over the 15 minutes to about 0.1500".

Here's how everything looked installed:

The other side:

The new front cover went on fine, other than the deck height difference of the 4G64 throwing things off a bit around the motor mount.

So far I'm very happy with how the color scheme is working out. It is almost too pretty to put in a daily driver that will spend 6 months of the year commuting in the rain.

Hopefully first start will be in the next week or so.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

So how did you manage to get your timing cover to line up on the head since its 6mm taller? I finally got my belt on... you cant use the jay racing cam stay on 4g64 gears . And i noticed your TB doesnt have the 3 vacuum ports on top and mine does, what is your from?

 

[snowborder714]

That's an Evo 3 throttle body, James.

I wonder what Steve does to the throttle cable bracket to keep it from rusting, as it looks like he just blasted it.

 

[VETDRMS]

So how did you manage to get your timing cover to line up on the head since its 6mm taller? I finally got my belt on... you cant use the jay racing cam stay on 4g64 gears . And i noticed your TB doesnt have the 3 vacuum ports on top and mine does, what is your from?

It doesn't line up, there is a 6mm gap around the motor mount. I was wondering why you were having issues with the belt, but that makes sense. I must have re-done the tensioner 20 times to get it where I wanted it. Ended up at a settled protrusion of 0.1530".

I also had to cut the clear timing cover a bit to clear the 90* -6AN fitting off the fuel rail.

That's an Evo 3 throttle body, James.

I wonder what Steve does to the throttle cable bracket to keep it from rusting, as it looks like he just blasted it.

Yes, it is an Evo 3 throttle body. I found a complete manifold/throttle body setup that came with all the brackets and coils/ignitor for $200 shipped. Looked like a good deal so I snapped it up. I think I am going to have a bit of difficulty getting it all to work with the VRSF intercooler kit while trying to keep the stock battery location though. Steve painted all the metal brackets with silver paint.

 

[mysticj]

.. get your timing cover to line up on the head since its 6mm taller?

Are you referring to the middle one? I think you can still purchase the 94 galant GS one...I think.

I finally got my belt on... you cant use the jay racing cam stay on 4g64 gears .

I use a small vise pliers to hold the belt to the intake cam and align the dowel pin @ 12 o'clock then move the intake counterclockwise and exhaust cam closewise til the marks line up. Then, I use something straight to make sure the timing marks goes straight across the cam gear bolts and roughly 90* of the dowel pins, then hold the belt to the exhaust cam with another vise pliers.

 

[VETDRMS]

Are you referring to the middle one? I think you can still purchase the 94 galant GS one...I think.

I use a small vise pliers to hold the belt to the intake cam and align the dowel pin @ 12 o'clock then move the intake counterclockwise and exhaust cam closewise til the marks line up. Then, I use something straight to make sure the timing marks goes straight across the cam gear bolts and roughly 90* of the dowel pins, then hold the belt to the exhaust cam with another vise pliers.

Yes, I was referring to the middle one. I ordered the 4G63 one a long time ago so I'm stuck with it but I do see now that I can get the taller Galant one, thanks for the info!

For reference:

Galant DOHC middle cover is: MD191813
4G63 middle cover is: MD191811

I might order one and change it out later, but the motor is going in tonight so it will have to wait.

I use zip ties on the gears/belts to hold it in place.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I like that build it looks really good love the color, more pics.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Thats what i did. I had to use zip ties. You know its right because the belt will only go on when the cams are perfectly lined up. My tensioner was within spec using a drill bit. As soon as i lined up the cams, it went right together.

Are you referring to the middle one? I think you can still purchase the 94 galant GS one...I think.


Yea that plus on the back plates that bolt to the head. They would be 6mm off.

 

[VETDRMS]

I picked up a Saturn alternator and modified it and the block. I also got a pigtail from O'Reilly's and started wiring it up before the motor goes in. I am going to leave the F wire unhooked and run the S wire to my fuse block for the fuel pump. The L wire will be the only one hooked up from the stock 4-wire harness. I may run a new 4AWG power/ground as well.

The stock belt was about 1" too short so I am going to pick up one that is 1" longer.

Here are a few pics of how the alternator/block turned out. Once it was done I masked off the front case and painted the block portion.

I am going to relocate the transmission cooler to the passenger side and start on the FMIC install once the motor/tranny are in.

With any luck first start will be this weekend....

 

[VETDRMS]

I have been thrashing non-stop for the last few days and thought I would post a teaser picture.

Just finished up ducting the FMIC to the condenser. I will be building a lower air damn as well to direct more flow to the radiator. I have a bunch of pics of install and some other fun stuff to post later but right now its full steam ahead to get it running!

 

[ziggo0]

You going to cut the core support for that FMIC?

 

[Indian]

Very clean build man.