Metal Flakes in Oil pan, (DAILY DRIVER HELP!!)

Posted by TalonspoolAWD, May 12, 2004
Newbie Forum - Beginner DSM modification questions and discussions. Common, repetitive, and general discussions will get dumped here from other tech forums. Unless you're a Probationary member you shouldn't post threads here.

  1. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    My car has been knock for a week now, it only does it sometimes and usually never right at startup, it takes a min for it to do it. I pulled the oil pan and i saw lots of little metal flakes and chunks at the bottom, so i pulled each rod cap off and they all seem fine. THe only thing i saw that looked weird is the rear balance shaft had some play in it, it wiggled a little, i looked up at the bearing and its still there and does not spin when i spin the shaft. it looked to be normal cause it was not loose it just had play back and forth. Could it be a main bearing cause i did not pull any main caps, it just seems weird that the knock was not always there at idle, only after car warmed up, ITS NOT LIFTERS, Sound is loudest at the intake manifold, but it has to be bottem end related with the tons metal fillings and chunks. ANY IDEAS, And if i wanted to remove balance shafts what type of work are we talkin about and $. Can the engine stay in the car and WILL IT AFFECT PERFORMANCE AND RELIABILITY, CAUSE ITS MY DAILY DRIVE AND ITS DOWN NOW.
    Thanks
    Tom
     
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  2. 98RedGs

    98RedGs Moderator

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    Don't bump threads.
    Thats twice...
    Don't do it a third time please.
     
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  3. blackGSX2g

    blackGSX2g DSM Wiseman

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    I would say don't drive it until you have it checked out. Anything in the oil is bad for your entire engine and turbo setup...you don't want a flake of metal to clog anything in your turbo.
     
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  4. awd4g63

    awd4g63 Proven Member

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    Plan on replacing all those bearings. Those little metal shavings could have quite possibly damaged most of them. If you're hearing a knocking sound, and seeing metal shavings in the pan, then something's messed up. If I were you, and you're solely using this car for a daily driver, I'd buy a Topline engine rebuild kit and just throw it back together. Have the block inspected and hot-tanked as well, if it needs to be bored, bore it; you can specify what bore you have when ordering the rebuild kit.

    As for now, the color of the shavings can tell you a decent bit about them.
     
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  5. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    The color of the shavings looked gold, they could have been silver with oil on them though. They are steel shavings cause they stick to a magnet. I just rebuilt this thing not to long ago and the only thing i didnt replace was the balance shaft bearings but they look fine, i went ahead and bought the eliminator kit anyway. I checked the mains, and rods and they are like NEW ALSO, there not even broken in yet. The sound was coming loudest at the intake and maybe where the head meets the block and only after car runs for a min, and sometimes goes away. I was thinking the only thing left is a cracked piston but i have 150CR accros the board. Car ran good just the knock was annoying. I checked lifters and it doesnt seem to come from that area. I also thought about timing but the logger showed 8degrees at idle. This thing is extremely hard to troubleshoot. I never had a problem before diagnosing anything but this knock is consistant with rpm's as they go up and slow at idle, its almost like a tap sorta knock. Its loud at the intake manifold and sorta at the exhaust manifold. The filings could be from the turbo cause that thing dont boost till 5k but still has no shaft play. I almost give up. I dont want to pull the head cause car runs good with good vacume. If a piston is cracked would it sound like a tick or knock and still give GOOD COMPRESSION.
    Any help is worth a try
    Thanks
    Tom
     
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  6. Shane818

    Shane818 Proven Member

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    Having same issue here! we rebuilt my engine top to bottom, everything brand new. smae knocking.
     
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  7. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    where is your knocking coming from? Is it the same area like the intake manifold. My car never did this before, i was hoping that it was something obvious. Maybe i should check the valve springs cause its not the lower end, unless a cracked piston can make that noise and still give me good comression without leaking down.
    Tom
     
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  8. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    well my man i had the same problem. started off with small knock and eventually got worse. rods bearing was fine. i also had metal shaving in my oil. come to find out that it was indeed my rear balance shaft. i continued to drive the car for about 2 weeks and this is what happened the rear shaft became somewhat difficult to for the engine to turn it. eventually i broke some gears in my oil pump. so i decided to pull the engine. all the main and rod bearings had worn from the metal shavings. my turbo also had considerable amount of shaft play. i guess the bearing did damange to it as well. so i just decided to build a new engine with balance shaft elim kit. and all the other good stuff. engine build has cost me 3500.00 and i am doing the build myself ;)
     
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  9. awd4g63

    awd4g63 Proven Member

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    It may be the rear balance shaft... ? You said your balance shaft bearings were wore out, but which balance shaft belt? Front or back?
     
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  10. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    my rear shaft has a little play in it but the bearings did not spin. I still have to hit them out to check them.
    Tom
     
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  11. awd4g63

    awd4g63 Proven Member

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    I guess if you're lucky, those metal shavings didn't damage anything. You said the bearings looked good.

    It seems like that's what's causing it, but it'll be a little hard to tell without cranking the car back up. Get a removal kit for the balance shaft.
     
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  12. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    i did eliminate them, i just hope that is what the problem was. if not then i am gonna be one upset person!!! LoL
     
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  13. nined2tsi

    nined2tsi Proven Member

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    sorry to highjack but is there supposed to be ANY play in the rear balance shaft in a 2g? obvious answer would be no, but Im not sure. My friends 95 tsi started knocking really bad and loud above 2500rpm and it sounded like it came from the rear balance shaft. So we tore it down, removed the oil pan then we found chunks like TalonspoolAWD was talking about, felt the rear balance shaft and it has about 1/32" or bigger play in it. Would that little play make it sound like a hammer is hitting the block above 2500rpm?
     
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  14. TalonspoolAWD

    TalonspoolAWD Proven Member

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    well just to keep you up to date. AFTER eliminating them i still have the same sound, I ALSO put in 3G lifters and no difference. NOW I AM GETTING SCARED CAUSE IT MUST BE A PISTON.
    Tom
     
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  15. nitroawdtalon

    nitroawdtalon Proven Member

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    I have the same problem with the flakes. Just rebuilt the engine all performance with j&e's bored .020 over. hks cams 264/264, port/polished head, 1mm oversized valves, well you get the point. Any way I had all new main bearings in it and something got in there and scared the bearings. I first thought that it was something else that I fixed but it wasn't. You need to look at your main bearings. You will lose oil psi if those are bad also. But i am more for sure that it is your main bearings. Very simple to replace You can do it also with the engine in the car. And don't let anyone tell you that you can't. If you are mechanicly inclined then you can do it. Let me know if that fixed your problem.
     
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  16. GSXlaunch

    GSXlaunch Proven Member

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    I too dont mean to hijack this thread...but I also have a fair amount of shavings that are collected in the lower section of the oil pan. I am in the process of eliminating the balance shafts and noticed this when I pulled the oil pan to get the rear bs bearing replaced. Thing is, I dont have any knock whatsoever. The engine puts out good compression...I did have to retap the stock oil feed bolt hole with the head on the car so I am thinking this is where they may have come from; that or from tapping in the exh manny for the EGT probe...but the manny was off the car and I ran compressed air thru it before reinstalling. The turbo is new. The car has about 116k miles on it. Oil pressure has been good the entire time I have owned the car (2500 miles) The bs bearings look fine...infact I reused the front shafts rear bearing instead of the new one in the kit. I will get a pick(s) of the shavings tonight and post them.
     
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  17. bigbroompilot

    bigbroompilot Proven Member

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    My friend has a 96 4g63, similiar knock. Sound lifterish but sharper, seems to emanate from intake man/head junction, but seems to be bottom end. I tenativly IDd it as piston slap as he was running it real hard with low oil level, but compression and leakdown were good. Didnt notice any metal on the dipstick but will call him and drain it tomorrow. It kinda comes and goes, is Rpm dependant, and seems to happen when backing out of a load...sound familiar?? If it was piston slap I should have got a bad compression reading in the affected hole, although leakdown could be normal as rings could be seating in undamaged bore at TDC. By the way....pistons arent ferrous enough to be attracted by a magnet??
    ??????????
     
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