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2G Looked&Looked.. need aftermarket piston advice.

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stiggity99

10+ Year Contributor
231
4
Mar 31, 2011
York Haven, Pennsylvania
Greetings:
I've searched for information to this question, on this site for weeks, and _still_ havn't come up with a solution. I blew my semi built engine dsmlink's dyno plugin was saying 544whp @ 5700rpm. still havnt pulled the engine, but #2 rod/piston is trash. Block has a 4" round hole out the back, etc.. :( etc.. :( here's where my question comes in.

I was running wiseco hd1400, 9:1 pistons, on reconditioned rods. arp bolts, resized, peaned, bushed for floating wristpins. My new engine at the machine shop (will take them 1 to 2 months just to tank, magnaflux m y new block/crank, so I have some time. WILL be running Manley 7 bolt H Beam rods, polished virgin crank, but I am leaning towards Manley 10:1 E85, Sport compact pistons. If not!!! LOL 10:1 JE pistons. Don't know why these 2 brands are in the finals.... just from the research ive done.

What piston would YOU run??? I don't have, right now, goals for anything greater than 600hp.. not awhp, just ~600 at the crank. Notice the "right now". Ive read wiseco pistons fail, JE's are manufactured at the same facility as Wiseco…. I AM on a budget (hence, H Beam rods), but please leave me know, which piston you would run? and mebbe, Why? Ive heard pro's and con's on them all... especially wiseco…

I will be dyno tuning this setup.

billet gt35r wheel, 9 blade turbine wheel, rebuilt FP Red.
fic 1800cc injectors.
Link 3
everything in my profile's either still there, or upgraded.
thanks everyone!!!!!
 
I run Manley pistons in all of my builds. Not for any particular reason other than for me they are tried and true. I have beat the snot out of the ones that are in my 2g for the last 6 years and they are still going strong. I just used some in a recent 6 bolt build as well and they worked out perfect. They have great customer service as well. I had a small imperfection in one of the pistons that I received and they overnighted me a new one and covered all the shipping both ways. They also helped me with a few questions I had while assembling my bottom end and were a great help.
 
Manley is good, Ross is good, Venolia is the best but are more expensive and are all custom made off of your design. JE, absolutely not.
 
Hrrmm…. I appreciate all the input. I'll be waiting another 2 weeks, and placing a couple orders... looks like Manley takes the cake. Right!! they've been around forever, and if they'll swap out a defective piston, no questions asked... that's what I wanted to hear. I still believe once the shop disassembles my blown engine, its going to be wrist-pin failure.... or rod bolt.. or possibly.. no way of knowing. Only August will tell. :)
 
First thing I'd be looking at is "which" part failed. You mentioned reconditioned rods (assuming stock2g 7 bolt rods since your car is a 2g). My guess is the rod bent / broke. I doubt the wristpin failed. If your not aware, machine work on 4g63's needs to be all but PERFECT, for them to stay together abouve 500+whp. H beam rods are so close to stock rods, torque yield wise, your wasting your money putting H beams in the new motor, to be honest.

Make sure your using a COMPETENT machine shop. Not a shop that "knows" how to "do machine work correctly" but all they've ever done are v8's. You'd be amazed how many "supposedly good" machine shops that can't, or won't for whatever reason, take the time to do the machine work correctly.

The only Wiseco's I've seen fail in the DSM application are the NON HD forgings. Most track the skirts at or near the pin boss. More than likely do to not running enough pin clearance, or running timing past MBT for extended periods. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate to run a Wiseco HD piston.

A strong piston will BREAK a weak rod, and a strong rod with BREAK a weak piston...


ASSuming your staying 7 bolt (hopefully it's a split thrust block)

I'd go with the following:
OEM block
OEM crank
Manley Turbo Tuff I beams
Wiseco 1400HD
King tri metal bearings
OEM BSE setup
NEW OEM oil pump and associated parts

Always OVER BUILD the motor, especially the bottom end. The short block holds the power, the head makes it..

I can't stress enough to MAKE SURE THE MACHINE WORK IS DONE CORRECTLY!
 
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ANY forged piston, even the old Wiseco's can handle more power than a set of manly H-beams. From what I've gathered, piston choice really doesn't matter much as long as you have your ring gaps and ptw right. Anything in a tune that would trash one piston would trash the next.
 
im looking at the manley h beam rods and arp 2000 fasteners. are Eagle rods better? i've read i beam manley's are good for 1kHP?!?! anybody want too share what connecting rods to go with, *now*?? this is the 2nd time i was given the advice of turbo tuff ibeams....i mean you got a point.... ling term goal (s). what kind of torque can an Eagle rod withstand?

anybody know/hear anything about the manlet sport compact series of pistons? not askjng anybody to build my engine, you know?

i've read over&over eagle rods wiseco pistons.. does manley have a hp/tq rating/listing?
 
im looking at the manley h beam rods and arp 2000 fasteners. are Eagle rods better? i've read i beam manley's are good for 1kHP?!?! anybody want too share what connecting rods to go with, *now*?? this is the 2nd time i was given the advice of turbo tuff ibeams....i mean you got a point.... ling term goal (s). what kind of torque can an Eagle rod withstand?

anybody know/hear anything about the manlet sport compact series of pistons? not askjng anybody to build my engine, you know?

i've read over&over eagle rods wiseco pistons.. does manley have a hp/tq rating/listing?
If choosing an h-beam rod I'd go eagle, they are as strong as any and been proven numerous times and can handle just about anything the normal dsm'r can throw at it. For the price you cant beat it. When I finally get my rods and pistons,I'll be going eagle/ross.

Eagles are rated at 900hp now. Idk if it's a change in design or they have been proven to do that so often they just change the rating in likes of getting more customers but either way they've been proven. As for manley, they to are very good, just not my cup of tea and idk y. So I'm really not sure on ratings.

A good person to talk to about eagles though would be @twicks69 as I believe he was making well north of 700hp and tq to the wheels on the eagles. I'm sure he could help on that aspect or direct you to one of his many responses on the quality and experience he had with them.
 
Look around on other forums. The only h beam rod that's not in the same league as the rest is Carrillo but they're about 1300 dollars. People in the lambo and supra world make 275hp/rod all day on those and I've yet to have seen a broken Carrillo rod. You'll find tons of posts with manly, eagles, scats, pretty much all h beams ripped to shreds. Hell 2 weeks ago me and a friend tore down an LS that was making 500 wheel and he bent a scat on a 1st gear pull with no hiccups in the tune or anything. There's a lot of speculation out there that all the big name h beams are made in the same factory in china which seems logical when you compare their weight, design, and failure rate.

I'm sure eagles can make 900 if you keep timing and torque low, but they were the rod in the early 2000's when 500 hp was a lot. Now they're a replacement rod when someone wants a mild build or wants to shed some weight for a high revving autocross build.
 
Just remember, some people could break a block of iron with a feather, and others could play tackle football with an egg in their pocket.

According to the math 4g63 eagle rods have an endurance limit well north of 700ft*lbs, and 10000 rpm with a heavy piston. That has also been my experience.
 
I should keep my mouth shut, but the phrase do it right or do it twice, comes to mind here.

Your car already makes over 500whp, unless you honestly plan to stop there (in which case go for the H beam, it's cheaper, lighter, and more forgiving on bearings), or spend the extra couple hundred and get a rod that is PROVEN to handle all the power your gonna throw at it...

I get an H beam is ~$350 whereas an I beam will be ~$700+

Are you happy with 500whp now? Did you ever find out what failed?
 
I still havnt pulled the engine/trans out yet. The hole in the back of the block is cyl #2, and something blew out of the oil pan. I will definitely know more, once the machine shop ytears it down...And 500+whp felt pretty good, just not sure what let loose. Has anybody heard anything about the manley turbo tuff pistons?? Or, am I on kill mode now??
 
I run Pauter x-beams with Weisco HDs which handled 900+ AWHP without any problems. I am considerably less in this setup which goes with the saying it doesn't hurt to over build.
 
I had the Manley I beams in the car for a long time, till I spun a bearing and wrecked the #3 big end. Great rod. I went to the Manley H beam for cost since I'm not running a ton of HP. The car dynoed at like 370whp, so I'll be fine with them. Loved the I beams.
 
Pauter X beams are the highest rated rod as far as manufacturers that I talked to after many calls when I shopped for the best rods, the quality of them is second to NONE, but you will pay for them, they are good enough for Rau's Magnus record setting car. Again the Venolia pistons same story, custom made high quality but you will pay for them.
 
90laserrsfwd:
Bingo!!! Im taking the engine to the shop that built the engine. Those Pauter rods look amazing!!! more than likely I'll settle for turbo tuff I beams, and..... A piston. :)
I appreciate all the responses, and im still not quite sure which piston to go with. $800 for rods, and possibly Manley 10:1 sport compact units??
 
90laserrsfwd:
Bingo!!! Im taking the engine to the shop that built the engine. Those Pauter rods look amazing!!! more than likely I'll settle for turbo tuff I beams, and..... A piston. :)
I appreciate all the responses, and im still not quite sure which piston to go with. $800 for rods, and possibly Manley 10:1 sport compact units??

The compression ratio you choose is going to depend ALMOST solely on what fuel your able to run. A lot of guys in PA will run e85, but keep in mind, IF something happens, and you can't get e85 (like if your out of fuel, and there's no e85 pump near you), you can't just put pump gas in the car (without changing the tune for it), and you'll need to lower the boost SIGNIFICANTLY. In other words, IF you choose 10:1 (for e85), and you need to go to pump gas (92/93 octane), your going to be limited on boost and have to change the tune, as opposed to doing say and 8.5:1 motor, and ONLY needing to change the tune to run either fuel. Your tuner would tune the car on 93 pump, and you'd leave the boost level there, and just change the tune for e85. If you ever needed to put pump back in, it's as simple as changing the tune back to pump gas. The boost wouldn't need to be changed. Not that it's a big deal to change the boost, but if you forget, and you try to run say 30 psi on pump, another motor will be lost...
 
The compression ratio you choose is going to depend ALMOST solely on what fuel your able to run. A lot of guys in PA will run e85, but keep in mind, IF something happens, and you can't get e85 (like if your out of fuel, and there's no e85 pump near you), you can't just put pump gas in the car (without changing the tune for it), and you'll need to lower the boost SIGNIFICANTLY. In other words, IF you choose 10:1 (for e85), and you need to go to pump gas (92/93 octane), your going to be limited on boost and have to change the tune, as opposed to doing say and 8.5:1 motor, and ONLY needing to change the tune to run either fuel. Your tuner would tune the car on 93 pump, and you'd leave the boost level there, and just change the tune for e85. If you ever needed to put pump back in, it's as simple as changing the tune back to pump gas. The boost wouldn't need to be changed. Not that it's a big deal to change the boost, but if you forget, and you try to run say 30 psi on pump, another motor will be lost...

Or you could just run the ethanol sensor. If you have to run pump gas just don't go WOT.
 
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