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GVR-4 Left built head outside for about 4 years...can I use it?

Posted by 4gfun, Jul 31, 2018

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  1. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    I had the below head shipped by Dale Morss (BogusSVO) about 4 years and 4 months ago for a project that never happened. It sat on the project DSM's head with the valve cover on it and cling wrap over the top to stop crap from falling in. The head sits with cleaned up lifters, rockers, and everything listed below including a set of stock cams that I won't be using. I oiled everything up before letting it sit.

    Specs:
    Resurfaced 2g cylinder head with 3 angles on the seat + 2 angles on the valves, back cut valves, factory seats, and 6t valves, 1100 BC Springs, Viton Blue seals, oil port mod, and cc'd at 7.6:1

    I am noticing rust spots in some areas....obviously not on the aluminum.

    Can I use the head or do I need to do something else first? Wondering if I could use that fogging oil mentioned in my previous similar thread?

    I'd hate to send this off to a do nothing machine shop around here that would love to charge me and make things worse.

    Thanks for your time!
     

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    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  2. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Pictures would help
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  3. buddahboost

    buddahboost Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 15, 2007
    CHICAGO HEIGHTS, Illinois
    I'd have machine shop look at it. Theres a reason dale isnt around the forum no more
     
  4. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,062
    215
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    This is true, machining heads with sand paper and wood never ends well for the car.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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    buddahboost likes this.
  5. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Ask Me, Virginia
    I noticed he stopped posting but couldn't find any details as to why? I searched around for horror stories but couldn't find any yet.

    What happened?
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  6. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,186
    948
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  7. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Ok I took a bit of digging but found just one long thread. Interesting that he just disappeared though.

    I hope this is not the case with my head.
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  8. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Ask Me, Virginia
    So what's the general rule for head cleanup if the rust isn't that bad AND I am going to take a chance on the head? Brake clean the whole thing and then oil all moving parts?
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  9. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,493
    190
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    As stated before, post a picture of the condition.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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  10. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

    1,809
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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Who stated that? I utilize the site's ignore function if a user and I don't get along and as a result am not always privy to what is requested. With that said, I'll go ahead and posts pics when I can. I'd still like to know what some generalities are until then. Thanks.
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  11. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,493
    190
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    The #2 post
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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  12. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Ok, I don't see it and likely due to that reason. I'll post up a pic when I can then.
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  13. brian9397gsx

    brian9397gsx Proven Member

    1,066
    72
    Joined Apr 28, 2008
    sioux city, Iowa
    Bogus also had a pretty bad name on some of the ford 2.3 forums just an fyi. I'd definitely have the head checked just for piece of mind and the whole why not since it's not together. There's nothing worse than doing a job twice when it can be prevented
     
    My DSM:
    brian9397gsx 1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    19.80 @ 35.55 MPH
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  14. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

    1,809
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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Yep I saw that too! By the way, until I can get pics of the head, I was able to identify it in one of his threads. I'd have to ship the head off somewhere since there is no one I really trust in this area which is a bit of a pain. I can pull the HLAs and followers off so there wouldn't be much left besides springs and valves in the end.

    Below is a link to the head he sold me before I was advised that the completed head had the following specs:

    Resurfaced 7bolt 1g cylinder head with 3 angles on the seat + 2 angles on the valves, back cut valves, factory seats, and 6t valves, 1100 BC Springs, Viton Blue seals, oil port mod, and cc'd at 7.6:1.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/4g63-head-build-ups-6-bolt-7-bolt.417422/

    Head #914 (This number was stamped by another machine shop)
    1G
    head markings G6/8
    10mm exhaust corner studs
    Oil port mod has been done

    (I-F) Intake-Front 5.191 (E-F) Exhaust-Front 5.187
    (I-R) Intake-Rear 5.188 (E-R)Exhaust-Rear 5.182
    080-jpg.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  15. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

    1,809
    39
    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Ready to get some pics up but I mounted the intake manifold up to it with a new gasket back then. I know that buying a new gasket is the least of my worries but wanted to know if you all would like me to remove the intake manifold gasket when I am taking pictures. Which makes me ask the next question. Since the head is aluminum I am not really worried about rust. What areas should I focus on in my pics? I'd suspect the valves are the ones that have rust on them (hopefully just surface rust if I can get away with it). Not sure if they are stainless. It's not like I didn't oil things up before putting the head on to the block.

    Thanks.
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  16. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,213
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    A picture is worth 1000 words.
    If any valves have rust, which I would expect them all to, replace them. Surface rust will be a weak point when the valves are super hot. That, for me, has resulted in that portion of the valve to BREAK and then it destroys the motor.
    Take my word for it, I have one piston with a huge hole in it from the exact thing you are talking about.
    Post up pictures of the valves and inside the runners, look for rust at the point where the valve disappears into the guide. If they are rusty, replace them or run the risk that I took. It didn't work out even though the valves weren't noticably rusted at that point. It's up to you but I have been there, never ever again will I use a rusty valve.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
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  17. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Thanks for the heads up. Please see the below pics. I am now done uploading. If additional ones would be helpful, please let me know. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  18. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    39
    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    20180805_120858_zpsguxgffsj.jpg

    20180805_114202_zpsstxcnavc.jpg

    20180805_114128_zpsc8ippsid.jpg

    20180805_114015_zpsn8kkuhni.jpg

    20180805_114023_zpszmjsyrs3.jpg

    20180805_114053_zpsawq0olze.jpg

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    20180805_114140_zpsgyxedigw.jpg

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    20180805_122849_zpsyt6j8reo.jpg

    20180805_122839_zpsx5zbtrkm.jpg

    20180805_122810_zpsgpn1vvmn.jpg

    20180805_121002_zpsuqskrpgc.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  19. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,213
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    I risked it once, never again. I would completely disassemble the head for better inspection on the valve stems. It doesn't look as bad as I thought but I sure don't trust a valve with rust on the stem, it will weaken it. You may have to replace some and not all or they may all have rust rings right at the point where the are sitting currently, on the stems. It just sat too long in a bad environment, don't try to cheat or you will probably regret it.
    Always better to be SAFE THAN SORRY! :thumb:
    I was sorry, ONCE.
    Any pitting, replace it.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
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  20. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    That doesnt look too bad except for the trash inside the intake ports that needs to go, those are stock valves, the faces on a few have rust but the more important part is the stems, a closeup of the stems is more valuable.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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    4gfun likes this.
  21. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

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    Ask Me, Virginia
    I can try to get a better closeup of the stems. My phone is an older LG G2...way ahead of it's time but inferior these days.

    I did see a bit of rust on the inside of just one of the valves actually but I wasn't sure if it was the "stem" or not. I am assuming that the stem is the long stick part of the valve? If so, I saw some (I hope) surface rust where it meets the back of the part of the valve that turns into a suction cup. Pic number 8 for example is the area that I saw some rust on just one valve.

    Since this is a new area of knowledge for me, could you expand on where I can try to take a better picture? Would that be through the ports or through the springs?

    The "back" of the valves look nothing like this BTW.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/surface-rust-on-valves.488464/

    Also, what should I do to get that junk cleaned up while I ponder my next move? A fill the head with water to see if the valves are leaking is a good start no?

    It looks like there is grease he put at where I assume to be the valve stem seals? Is it ok to clean that area?

    Here is the cleanup with the scotch brite pad BTW:

    20180805_150452_zpswzur08ip.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  22. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,493
    190
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    Pull the valves and inspect. If you don't have the tool, buy the Euro Export Valve Spring tool and do it yourself. It is simple to use and you will use it more times than you think.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
    Loading...
    4gfun likes this.
  23. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

    1,809
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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    Thanks but....

    rrrrr I should have mentioned that this vehicle is only going to be driven about 400-1000 miles per year. Definitely not a daily. I have thought about it and I want to take my chances.

    I like the idea of the tool moving forward. It will help me learn a bit more on my junk heads.

    From here my plan is to blow out what I can with compressed air. Then put some old plugs in and fill the runners up with water. Rinse and repeat literally. Dry out with compressed air. Hit the internals with WD-40. Use assembly lube or oil on the rest and get this back together.

    If I am willing to take a chance, would this be the way to clean it up without sending off to a machine shop? Is brake clean allowed in there?
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...
  24. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,493
    190
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    It's a $75 investment that could save you a ton of time/money.. Worst case scenario you pull the valves and they are bad. You get a used set of valves for cheap and install a set of non rusted valves.

    Best case they are good to go and you can sleep at night with a tool for the future.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
    Loading...
    4gfun likes this.
  25. 4gfun

    4gfun Supporting VIP

    1,809
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    Joined Dec 10, 2007
    Ask Me, Virginia
    You make sense. I have 6T valves laying around as well that I could use if these are rusted. Could this work instead? It's a bit cheaper and free shipping:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUBISHI...ve+Spring+tool&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

    Either way, do I jack up the installed seals when I pull the valves?

    Besides the investment, I am a bit intimidated to do something wrong. I guess that's natural when entering the unknown. :) I also like to limit being invasive when possible.

    Thank you.
     
    My DSM:
    1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
    Loading...

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