Kinugawa turbo billet wheels Wallotext

[talontd92tsi]

Just wondering if you guys have any experience with these things. I was surfing the net the other day, thinking, man, I would like a bigger turbo with a billet wheel. Just because.

So I go to FP's website and drool over the green-black range. I am sure a black is too damn big for my goals with this particular car, So either a green or red. Green's were (are?) on sale for like 899 (+100 for an internal actuator).

So I did some searching about billet wheels and found Kinugawa's website and started looking around, and became intrigued, and started wondering, gee I have rebuilt a turbo before, and my current turbo is in great shape, so why not just swap wheels/covers and go for it.

Current turbo is an E316g. For cost effectiveness, I would like to stay on the TD05/7CM setup. that is already there. Just swap covers and wheels.

Soo...First I found this. (Link to the actual page does not work because the spam filter catches "SHI T" in it so heres a picture.)

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Then I found this

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Not sure which one would produce more overall power, and it looks like (at least the picture on the 11 blade wheel) that they have already component balanced this wheel, so bolt on and go... right?

Then I said, well, Let's see what you can find for compressor covers.

And I found these four options.

Stock style (sleeper20g style) cover. $99.00
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorhousing4g63ttd05hdsm1gevoiii20g-1-1.aspx

2.4" inlet cover $109.00
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorhousingtd05td0624inchesinletfit60-1wheel-1.aspx

3" inlet cover $109.00
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorhousing3td06garrett60-1wheel-1-1.aspx

3" inlet SP cover $149.00
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorhousing3td06garrett60-1wheel-1-2-3-1.aspx

And of course, I want to stay on an internal gate (because I don't really need an external gate, so why spend the green) They have options here too.

If I stick to the stock style cover they have these stock style actuators with spring pressures up to 22 psi (per their site) for $65.00

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turboactuatordsm1gevo1-3vr-4td05h14b16g17psi-1.aspx

Or if I wanted to get fancy, they have an adjustable actuator with changeable springs (up to 25psi) for 99.00

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turboactuator4g63ttd05hevo1-31gvr4galantvr4dsmeclipse.aspx

And if I choose to go to the 2.4 or 3" inlet cover, the only option I can find on their site is this guy for 99.00, again, changeable springs in the actuator.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/k...torfpgreddy3inchcover24inchcovertd05td06.aspx

So my options for a bolt on, td05, 7cm, billet 20g are as follows (both wheels are the same price, so I'm just looking at design benefits/drawbacks).

Stock style cover, Stock style actuator, $323.00
Stock style cover, adjustable actuator, $357.00
2.4 or 3" inlet, non SP & adjustable actuator, $367.00
3" inlet, SP, & adjustable actuator $407.00

The turbo on this car is in such pristine shape, I would not be afraid one bit to just throw it on there with out rebuilding it at all, I mean, it has ZERO shaft play, in any direction.

So in summation, the question is as such. Is it worth the cash to upgrade this over the current e3 wheel in there now? I think it would be a nice little bump in pump gas power (e85 is out of the question here, although I am considering building my own home-brew meth kit using the instructions on Tom's Turbo Garage's website ( http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alcohol-injection-parts-list.html ).

Does anyone have experience with these things at all? Good/bad/great/etc. Let me hear your opinions. If these things aren't total garbage, I think this would be a great way to build a badass bolt on turbo on a budget.

 

[Insane20]

I bought my ss line from them, they sent me the wrong one. I called their customers service line and told the lady it was wrong. She then overnighted the correct line and payed my return shipping. All in all it was a good experience.

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

I've been very interested in trying these wheels and their covers as well.

 

[talontd92tsi]

I've been very interested in trying these wheels and their covers as well.

Me too, because the billet compressor wheels appear to be of very high quality.

If these are viable options I am curious to know:

1: Which of those 20g billet wheels would make more power? I suspect the 11 blade wheel and not the 6+6 for some reason.
2: Is the surge ported cover really necessary for a TD05 20g?
3: If not, which of the three other cover options would be best, the 2.4", 3", or Stock style cover? I am leaning toward the 3" cover anyway, as I already have a FP intake pipe, and it would be a less abrupt transition to the compressor wheel over the 2.25" (Stock) and 2.4" covers. I would like to get rid of the j-pipe anyway, and If I am switching the cover, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me to not switch out the wheel for something a little bigger while I am in there.
4: Is it really worth anything over the evo3 setup I currently have in the car?

I know I am not going to get Green/Red/Black performance out of something like this, but it looks like a very cost effective way of bumping up the power, most likely past what the standard old school TD05 20G's that first put DSM's in the 10's back in the late 90's.

I have always read that TD05 20G's are some of the most entertaining turbos to have on a DSM due to the freight train of torque that comes on @ spool.

 

[JusMX141]

The wheels are fine. I've had folks log a solid 49-50 lb/min accurately with enough boost using the 7-blade extended tip 20G wheel when combined with a turbine wheel and housing that supports such compressor flow. Results like that are typically not going to happen with a TD05H turbine, however.

I dislike that they don't currently offer too much in the middleground for Mitsu turbos regarding a wheel/housing combo....nothing to directly compete with the FP Green- it's either a 20G or a 60-1 which is a HUGE gap. Not sure if they don't want to, or they feel the market isn't there...but it would be nice to have the option.

Something to keep in mind is the FP turbos you're considering all have larger turbine wheels...so you're going to be limited on what you can do with the stock, unclipped TD05H wheel your turbo currently uses. Another issue is any of the compressor cover choices outside of the stock-appearing cover will not work with the wastegate actuators you're considering. The 3" cover needs a T04B Garrett-style actuator...like so:

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[talontd92tsi]

Thanks for the reply Justin.

I was hoping you would chime in.

as far as the actuator for the 2.4" and 3" cover, I pasted the wrong link... I meant to post this one:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/kinugawaadjustableactuator3antisurgedsmeclipseevo1-3vr4.aspx

Which looks like it will work just fine based on the pictures on the site, and its 14 bucks cheaper to boot.

I am fully aware of the TD05 limitation, and that the FP Green/red/black have larger turbines/housings. I am just curious if this will be worth it without the extra investment of a turbine wheel and housing, both of which Kinugawa offer, but then we are adding ~400 to the price here, which puts this little idea of mine into the 700 dollar range, which is quickly approaching the "on sale" price of the green right now.

If you had to guess, where would this flow on a stock ,unclipped TD05 wheel versus the evo3 wheel? I see ~39lbs per minute in link @ 22psi right now.

 

[JusMX141]

You could stand to gain about 3-4 lb/min with a larger compressor...I can't put an exact number on it because of calibration factors and other supporting mods, but the wheel/housing is going to limit your tune more than anything. Additional boost and airflow is going to raise EGT's leading to more knock, especially on pump gas. The fastest and highest-HP TD05H turbos are all done using E85 for that reason.

 

[bastarddsm]

Does kinugawah offer a 8cm housing?

 

[EC17PSE]

I was also looking at this aswell but You can also look at this http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/products/billet-turbocharger-compressor-wheel-mhi-big-16g-evo-3/

They might offer a 20g wheel. I did plan on a 20g myself but decided against it.

Both have great reviews and its really hard to choose.

 

[JusMX141]

Does kinugawah offer a 8cm housing?

I don't believe....all of their DSM housings are 7cm2 Evo III-spec that I've seen.

I was also looking at this aswell but You can also look at this http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/products/billet-turbocharger-compressor-wheel-mhi-big-16g-evo-3/

They might offer a 20g wheel. I did plan on a 20g myself but decided against it.

Both have great reviews and its really hard to choose.

I honestly think that's just a KTS wheel from a different vendor. There are plenty of distributors out there selling KTS wheels as "their own" when in reality it's just a generic-labeled KTS wheel. There aren't THAT many billet wheel vendors out there....at least not right now!

 

[EC17PSE]

Yeah all 7cm. Just had a browse on there site and nothing but 7cm for us. Shame[DOUBLEPOST=1412802300][/DOUBLEPOST]Kts? Never heard of them! They still good. I randomly came across a few places offering billet wheels. Just dont know whos is whos and shos to trust .[DOUBLEPOST=1412802620][/DOUBLEPOST]Just looked at there FB page and ive met these guys before in the UK. Great guys and talked through the whole thing with me.

 

[bastarddsm]

ahh balls. I think a smaller turbine in a looser housing is the better way to go.

 

[JusMX141]

ahh balls. I think a smaller turbine in a looser housing is the better way to go.

I can't honestly answer that. I recently built a HY40 for a friend of mine using a HX40 rotating assembly in a HY35 turbo, standard T3 9cm2 housing, and he's logged around 78 lb/min so he gained a TON of flow without adding excessive lag.

Same goes for a billet TD06SL2 20G I built which recently trapped 134mph in a 7cm2 housing- obviously the housing isn't a restriction if the car can get up and go to the tune of mid-130's!

 

[talontd92tsi]

I can't honestly answer that. I recently built a HY40 for a friend of mine using a HX40 rotating assembly in a HY35 turbo, standard T3 9cm2 housing, and he's logged around 78 lb/min so he gained a TON of flow without adding excessive lag.

Same goes for a billet TD06SL2 20G I built which recently trapped 134mph in a 7cm2 housing- obviously the housing isn't a restriction if the car can get up and go to the tune of mid-130's!

What fuel was this 20G on. I wish E85 was an option here, but there is a single station within 50 miles of me. Sucks.

 

[DSM Chase]

I'm interested in how this would work also, I have a turbo builder that has those 11 blade and 7 blade billet 20Gs in stock, wondering how much power differance that 3" down firing comp cover makes vs the stock 16G J pipe cover, I'm sure that these billet wheels would be nasty with an external Gate, but it seems we all wanna stay internal .

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Are these wheels bolt on and go without needed to balance the assembly?

 

[bastarddsm]

I can't honestly answer that. I recently built a HY40 for a friend of mine using a HX40 rotating assembly in a HY35 turbo, standard T3 9cm2 housing, and he's logged around 78 lb/min so he gained a TON of flow without adding excessive lag.

Same goes for a billet TD06SL2 20G I built which recently trapped 134mph in a 7cm2 housing- obviously the housing isn't a restriction if the car can get up and go to the tune of mid-130's!

I wan't saying that putting a bigger wheel in the existing housing doesn't work, i'm just saying maybe a bigger housing on the existing wheel would work better. A lot of this is gut feeling, but I have a sort of orange to tangelo comparission. I've run hy35 and a hx35 in a 12 and 18ish cm housing. I know that the turbine is 2mm bigger on the HX but its close enough. I also had a S362 thingy in a ~12cm housing. all of these were ran on an open manifold. The higest flowing was the HX35 in the cm, and the hy was by far the lowest. Interestingly enough the s362 and the hx35 flowed about the same, even though the turbine was massive in the 362. The housings were very similar in size. I'd say that it wasn't the wheel limiting the flow. Anyway it's kinda apples and oranges, but it still give me the feeling that bigger housing on a smaller wheel is better. I need to find a 12cm housing then I'll modify it to fit my hy in it and see how it works.
Did turbolab machine the hy40 housing? That's a combination I've wanted to try, but I just wasn't sure if the housing would flow enough. 78lbs/min sounds like an awful lot. Do you happen to have any other data from this?

 

[pj91gsx]

I bought my ss line from them, they sent me the wrong one. I called their customers service line and told the lady it was wrong. She then overnighted the correct line and payed my return shipping. All in all it was a good experience.

This is why I absolutely HATE buying from this company. They send me the wrong parts 75 % of the time. I paid return shipping everytime.

One time they never shipped after I ordered, 2 weeks go by and they didnt say anything, so i contacted them. Then they shipped, 2 more weeks go by and i get the wrong part. So then i have to pay to send back their parts and wait another week to get the correct part.

I got a really nice review on evo M because of the wasted time that wasn't even my fault.

This is not the first time this happened, this is just the worst case, so i avoid doing business with them.

The billet wheels are KTS wheels, they are good.

 

[EC17PSE]

Are these wheels bolt on and go without needed to balance the assembly?

Your going to want to always get it balanced by a pro on a machine. After all its an expensive wheel. If you bought say a complete comp wheel and turbine from say traders greg then you could get away without it as they are balanced enougb but i personally would never just bolt on anything without doing the job fully. Thats just me though

 

[JusMX141]

What fuel was this 20G on.

E85 for sure.

Did Turbolab machine the hy40 housing?

Correct. The 4016 90.5mm extended-tip HE351/HX40 wheel is what I installed.

That's a combination I've wanted to try, but I just wasn't sure if the housing would flow enough. 78lbs/min sounds like an awful lot. Do you happen to have any other data from this?

The only other hard data is injector duty went up roughly 30% over the HY35. This is on a 2.4L Evo using a 2G ECU, turned with ECMLink.

Your going to want to always get it balanced by a pro on a machine. After all its an expensive wheel. If you bought say a complete comp wheel and turbine from say traders greg then you could get away without it as they are balanced enougb but i personally would never just bolt on anything without doing the job fully. Thats just me though

It's *claimed* that the wheels are balanced and ready to install, which is exactly what I did with the HY40 I spoke of above...and it's fine. This was also mated to a non-assembly balanced HX40 turbine...if any of your components were previously assembly-balanced, it's mandatory that you get the turbo re-balanced after installing the new billet compressor.

 

[AndrewD5418]

They have td06sl2 wheels and housings as well iirc...

 

[bastarddsm]

Correct. The 4016 90.5mm extended-tip HE351/HX40 wheel is what I installed.

What? 90.5? I thought a HX40 was 64/74...

The only other hard data is injector duty went up roughly 30% over the HY35. This is on a 2.4L Evo using a 2G ECU, turned with ECMLink.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but thats hard to believe. That's a lot.

 

[JusMX141]

The largest-available HX40 compressor wheels from Holset are 60/86mm; KTS offers an extended-tip version which I originally thought was marketed as 90.5mm but I now see on their page it's listed as nearly 92mm:

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[bastarddsm]

Ok. What turbine?

 

[talontd92tsi]

So I was looking at what it would take to build a relatively badass bolt on turbo from scratch working only with parts available on their website and I came up with the following:

Qty Item Total
1 Turbine Housing 7cm 34mm Flapper EVO 1-3 DSM 1G TD06SL2 $199.00
1 Turbine Wheel Mitsubishi TRUSTs GREEN TD06S TD06SL2 20G $119.00
1 Bullet Shaft Nut MHI TD05 / TD05H / TD06H / TD06SL2 Aluminum $6.93
1 Turbo Repair Kit Performance MHI TD05 TD06 16G 18G 20G $59.00
1 Turbo Bearing Housing Mitsubishi EVO 1-3 / DSM 1G TD05H fit 60-1 / 25G with larger exduer diameter wheel $149.00
1 Kinugawa Adjustable actuator 3" Anti Surge DSM Eclipse EVO 1-3 VR4 $85.00
1 Mitsubishi 3" Turbo Anti-Surge Compressor Housing & Whee TD05H TD06 60-1 wheel $249.00

Subtotal $866.93

The only thing missing that I can think of is the big c-clip to hold the compressor housing onto the CHRA. I can't seem to find one on their site, but I am sure I can find one (either new or used) relatively inexpensive.

I think all of these parts will work together. Opinions?