Separate names with a comma.
Posted by Hondasi88, Oct 10, 2006
Newbie Forum - Beginner/newbie/general DSM modification questions. First mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum.
what can cause this?
The timming marks keep switching what the hell is going wrong?
When is it jumping? Once a month? Everytime you start the car? Have you bent any valves? What are the condition of your belts, pulley's, tensioners, and cam gears?
New rebuilt head
New water pump
New balance shaft belt
all new belts
new tensioners........................ All the marks are fine i just timming this time by just starting up the car for a few. I heard some grinding noise in the head area but everything checked out so I finally pulled the mount and cover and again the timming was way off.
View attachment 68607
This is one of the "extra" things I do during a TB job.
Ah damn it, I drew a picture. By the time I got it drawn you had posted yours.
I usually "lose the race" because someone comes around and wants me to actually work at my job in stead of "jacking around" on the net (imagine that). You guys are actually lucky (???) that we observe NWS....otherwise I'd be looking at porn 8 hours a day.
I especially like the picture of the tensioner pulley showing the correct starting orientation of the two adjusting holes. Getting the correct amount of belt wrap around the cams is very important.
I had a few thoughts on some other things to check, as well.
Do the camshafts turn freely? I could see how there could be some skippage if the cams don't turn nicely. To verify that they turn nicely, without causing additional trauma, we've got to get the pistons out of the way. With the t-belt off, if you are starting at tdc #1 on the crank and cams, turn the crank backwards (counter clockwise) until the keyway on the crank is at about ~9 o'clock. Now the pistons can't be hit by the valves, and the cams can be rotated freely. Spin them (one at a time) all the way around a couple of times with a 17 mm socket and a ratchet on the cam gear bolts. Beware, they will get easier/harder to turn, and on the backside of the lobe, they'll have some energy stored up, and will try and jump away from you. If the cams don't spin well, pull the valve cover and inspect the cam caps. Are they installed in the correct locations, facing the correct direction? tease: I've done that, and I've also mixed and matched parts from other heads,, I mean I've seen it done....)
While the valve cover is off, inspect all the other components.
If the cams turns well, lets turn our attention to the oil pump/rear balance shaft. It should turn fairly freely by hand, but the definative test is with a cordless drill. Chuck up a 14mm socket in your drill. Spin the oil pump drive clockwise at a moderate speed. You'll hear the drill bog down as it starts moving oil, but it should be able to spin the oil pump drive at a reasonable speed. You can verify oil delivery to the head if you have the valve cover off when you do this. (You will also make a mess if you don't cover the little bleeder holes at the end of the lifter rail with your fingers, as oil will geyser up out of them.) or so I've been told... )
Please, do not use an impact, or even an air ratchet to turn the pump. Due to the resistance of pumping the oil, you can seriously overtighten/snapperfy the oil pump nut/drive stub using power tools.
If the pump doesn't turn well, it could be a pump issue, or it could be a balance shaft issue. (For those of you that still have them.)
If the pump turns nicely, you're going to have start examining the individual components, one by one.
Are the teeth worn on the timing gears? This can happen from running with the covers off in dusty climates, as well as on higher mileage motors.
Are the timing cover gasket strips all accounted for? You know, those little strips in the cover that seal the cover against the motor. I could see how you could skip a tooth or two if they got in between the gears and the belt.
Good luck, and let us know what you find.